Maybe I am bitter, and over-reacting but... (org related)

[joseppe]

If you are a player with a few top fighters who are on 100k then money is not an issue. You spend it to keep your gym going nothing more

 

Its simply stupid for top orgs to just throw money because they can

 

Of course some players will love that silly contract offer but the reality is its not needed and just puts every org owners back up

[10thPlanetKT]

Randall how I get cash is no secret, I plain and simple just buy it. My job pays me on average 30 extra hours of overtime(essential worker + Hazard pay) and this has been going on since Covid started (and I don't have an outside life at the moment with 2 small girls taking up so much of my time so any extra cash goes to Tycoon). Devin wanted to enter and has the GOAT HW and my tournament is for the big guys, he wanted to basically earn more cash before retirement.

 

As for my first 2 events, the first lost 1.3 and the other 1.6. But I over paid on purpose to get the desired results of making the top ten, its very hard to get guys to sign when you're ranked 37th or whatever it was. And I do over pay, but its the only way to compete with the big orgs, you know how tough it is to go against the big 3, and now your org has the best talent I think.

 

So end of the day I'm sorry your HW champ is retiring, but dont give up Pulse. You worked so hard getting there and you're one of the best org owners out there, your roster won't leave cause of how good you are and how good the org is.

 

And as for me contacting other fighters under contract, those orgs were all inactive(Jag, RFC, And Underground) and I made sure to include IF the org closes this is what I'm offering(like I'm sure every one of you wasn't doing the same). It never was a leave this org and ill pay you X amount of dollars. So whoever told you that was a liar.

 

Told y'all he used the VIP exchange to make more money. I have an unpopular opinion in all this. MMA Tycoon is a competitive game. If Chuck wants CFC to reach top 5 by any means necessary so be it. Not everyone has to be buddy buddy. This is the fight business.

[joseppe]

 

Told y'all he used the VIP exchange to make more money. I have an unpopular opinion in all this. MMA Tycoon is a competitive game. If Chuck wants CFC to reach top 5 by any means necessary so be it. Not everyone has to be buddy buddy. This is the fight business.

This is also a game and shit like this just fucks with the game as is on show now. Ok its all above board but its still a shitty move

[goodtymes31]

This is also a game and shit like this just fucks with the game as is on show now. Ok its all above board but its still a shitty move

 

That's kind of where I am at. I am not saying it is illegal, I am not asking anyone to do anything about it. I am just staying that approach is likely going to have a ripple effect on the other current top orgs, especially if most of the mid range guys start chasing the cash.

[10thPlanetKT]

Every once in awhile you need someone to come around that can reset the market. That way the top 5 orgs can continue to reinvent themselves to stay at the top or fall to the top 10.

[Shards]

Unpopular opinion, you're all fucking idiots.

 

Orgs are saying these actions stretch fighters and that's a pull on their resources, you say "Nope, look at me." and problem solved becasue orgs have nothing to say? That's not the case becasue you guys are the outliers and owners can't afford to fight with you because people here tend to hold onto the most valuable products so it's a point where you can't really rock that boat either. I haven't ran an org in a while so I'm not really feeling bound by any of that, when I ran an org I felt somewhat trapped by the good intentions posted by most people when I was already trying to deal with a problem.

 

Inflated contracts have a small impact on the guys filling fights 1-3, it has a bigger impact for fights 4-10 becasue those guys are sometimes just paid to lose and sometimes you need those tools to be 'good' at a job that creates 50% losers but ideally you want them to also not be supershitty because those are the same ranks you want to discover homegrown talent, you want to be wrong but in most cases you just have an idea on a fighters futures on signing by the manager behind them. Situations happen where you may need to try and help trailer careers a little bit, if you think about there's situations with 2 top level fighters on bad losing streaks, depending on how many losses instead of booking each other you pull a couple mid level guys and get both of them both ideally some confidence boost with a win instead, some people are guarantees in terms of activity and overall quality so I don't want their fighter getting retired or released.

 

It fucks with the balancing act that is trying to be a good owner, Just on the concept alone Pulse is/was about ready to close up and nobody actually doing anything that talking him off the ledge yet, you're just shouting not to from the distance.

 

 

Every once in awhile you need someone to come around that can reset the market. That way the top 5 orgs can continue to reinvent themselves to stay at the top or fall o the top 10.

 

Prove it, show me the math that would imply this is beneficial and you're not talking out of your asshole.

[10thPlanetKT]

Calm down man I defer to your experience as an organization owner! I was talking more theoretical than practical. What I'm trying to say is if CFC is getting more fighters just because of money, then that resets the market and allows managers of fighters to make more money in the modern organizations. No need to be rude I'm just sharing my perspective. No need to be butthurt.

[Shards]

I'm sorry it's not you in particular but I've always felt the good intentions here always managed to accidentally back people into a corner, people can just go in on this topic because they own fighters and can do whatever but if an org owner wants to get involved here and are invested into their org they should also consider their face and that means they'll lose the ability to really take a bite I think. Maybe it's just me, I've felt I had held back a lot because I was running an org and didn't want to rock the boat too much so I had desire to really go in on this topic myself.

[goodtymes31]

Calm down man I defer to your experience as an organization owner! I was talking more theoretical than practical. What I'm trying to say is if CFC is getting more fighters just because of money, then that resets the market and allows managers of fighters to make more money in the modern organizations. No need to be rude I'm just sharing my perspective. No need to be butthurt.

 

So the reality of the situation is, most managers will tell you, they have no need for the type of money that CFC is offering. But some accept it just because it's a lot of money, but there is literally nothing to spend that money on. Once those contracts get too big, then orgs cease to be profitable. I will tell you, completely honestly, at the top level now, I make just enough cash to keep my fighters resigned, and profit a little bit, but way less than any other company. But it's a lot more work to run an org, and I dont do it for profit. I enjoy it, but if I start losing large amounts of money in game and have to pay out of my pocket in real life for the ability to do all the work needed to run an org right, it just doesnt add up for me. I enjoy it, but not enough to pay for the right to do it.

[10thPlanetKT]

Unpopular opinion, you're all fucking idiots.

 

Orgs are saying these actions stretch fighters and that's a pull on their resources, you say "Nope, look at me." and problem solved becasue orgs have nothing to say? That's not the case becasue you guys are the outliers and owners can't afford to fight with you because people here tend to hold onto the most valuable products so it's a point where you can't really rock that boat either. I haven't ran an org in a while so I'm not really feeling bound by any of that, when I ran an org I felt somewhat trapped by the good intentions posted by most people when I was already trying to deal with a problem.

 

Inflated contracts have a small impact on the guys filling fights 1-3, it has a bigger impact for fights 4-10 becasue those guys are sometimes just paid to lose and sometimes you need those tools to be 'good' at a job that creates 50% losers but ideally you want them to also not be supershitty because those are the same ranks you want to discover homegrown talent, you want to be wrong but in most cases you just have an idea on a fighters futures on signing by the manager behind them. Situations happen where you may need to try and help trailer careers a little bit, if you think about there's situations with 2 top level fighters on bad losing streaks, depending on how many losses instead of booking each other you pull a couple mid level guys and get both of them both ideally some confidence boost with a win instead, some people are guarantees in terms of activity and overall quality so I don't want their fighter getting retired or released.

 

It fucks with the balancing act that is trying to be a good owner, Just on the concept alone Pulse is/was about ready to close up and nobody actually doing anything that talking him off the ledge yet, you're just shouting not to from the distance.

 

 

 

Prove it, show me the math that would imply this is beneficial and you're not talking out of your asshole.

 

PS from a fighter manager perspective people join organizations for three reasons: money, top competition, or bells and whistles

(writeups, friendliness, tournaments, Amazing logo & designs etc). While I can't do the math for you, because I never owned an org I can tell you this. If managers are just joining CFC because of the money then the way to compete with them is to offer more money. Mid Level managers like myself when they get to a certain stage only care about how the hell there going to keep up with the private gym fees? So when someone offers an oil deal type offer, how could you say no?

[10thPlanetKT]

 

So the reality of the situation is, most managers will tell you, they have no need for the type of money that CFC is offering. But some accept it just because it's a lot of money, but there is literally nothing to spend that money on. Once those contracts get too big, then orgs cease to be profitable. I will tell you, completely honestly, at the top level now, I make just enough cash to keep my fighters resigned, and profit a little bit, but way less than any other company. But it's a lot more work to run an org, and I dont do it for profit. I enjoy it, but if I start losing large amounts of money in game and have to pay out of my pocket in real life for the ability to do all the work needed to run an org right, it just doesnt add up for me. I enjoy it, but not enough to pay for the right to do it.

 

Now that is definitely a good argument. If it causes all the other PVP org to go into the negative because they are losing their fighters that is a problem. However if it is not then it is an opportunity to make the org better so no one would want to leave in the first place. Again I'm speaking in theory and just trying to carry along the conversation by playing Devil's Advocate. No problem Shards!

[j666]

Some player will always follow the money.

 

Some players will stay loyal to people.

 

Neither are right or wrong. We all play for different reasons and we all play different ways.

 

Some people consider certain things to be sleazy, others dont. Whatever...the game goes on. Stay active in the forums long enough, and youll notice all these scandals eventually go away and new ones arise.

 

I mean, Mentor is still in the game ffs.

 

Pulse guy. Keep doing what youre doing. People like fighting at your joint and youll learn quickly about whos loyal and who isnt. Concentrate on those that are, forget anyone else...theyre not your people.

I would send out a poll or letter and ask people what they love and what they dont. Do more of the shit they love and less of what they dont. Do that, let the mercenaries do what they do and youll have longevity.

[rjs2442]

 

Vip exhange or not , since when is it acceptable to poach other orgs' Champs ? I absolutely expected such a dick move from a cash whore, like Scrumbellos, but not an experienced org owner like Chuck.

Seems that a red line has been crossed. Yeah Chuck ,i know that you contacted several PPV org stars MID -CONTRACT !!!!!

Yeah guys , Chuck is messaging fighters contracted to Syn,ICS,Pulse and possibly GAMMA too, promising them millions of dollars in order to move to CFC.

Pulse, Syn, Gamma and Inferno co-existed peacefully ,without any shenanigans. I fully support Randal on this one .

I need proof of this as it is a very slanderous accusation. My hope is this is not being spread in an effort merely to make Chuck look bad.

[bjornmma1]

For those who do not know me (well enough) or do not remember, I used to own and ran Syn. Before that I owned and ran NY Fight Nights, one of the best ID orgs at that time.

 

I did manage a couple of my own fighters to high p4p ranks and therefore generally good contracts.

 

1) Lets start with my view as a fighter manager:

 

In ID orgs, I could not care any less about money. Never do I ask for better pay and I frankly do offer a lot of times to fight for free. That way they can keep their money and save it for recruiting, which in return gives my fighter more potential opponents.

 

Once my guys end up in unrestricted orgs, I send them to the orgs where I feel confident in the org owner their capabilities, knowledge and long term view. Those used to be Evo, Syn, CEC, Gamma,... As a more noob manager, I did try to get big contracts there a few times, but time learned me that money should not be the basis on which to sign a contract.

My best fighters now go (or will go) to orgs like Gamma, Syn,... elite orgs with deep strong divisions and lots of challenges to face for my fighters.

 

 

2) My view as a (former) org owner is very similar:

 

The way I see it, there is a big difference in ID orgs and unrestricted orgs.

 

In ID orgs, the org owner should look to work with a broad range of loyal managers and build relations.

Main thing for the fighter managers is that the org is active and is smart about building up their project fighters. Flexibility and communication is key, money is not.

I ran NYFN until it was at the stage of being able to go unrestricted. The highest contract for a guy on the roster at that time was 20k,20k,20k and the second highest was 15k, 15k,15k. Those two youngsters actually had already built up a great rank, but money was never an issue/request. Most of the others were fighting for 10k, 5k, 5k or even for free if they asked that themselves

Therefore my plea again that communication is key and vital in ID orgs. Managers do very rarely pick orgs for money at this stage at all and if they do, fine by me.

 

Unrestricted orgs pose a different mindset.

Communication stays key, but when the big money offers come in, they stick. Money is not relevant for most managers until they receive such offers and sign the paper.

There are obviously exceptions, but the fighter pay plays a big role in the fight over top free agents. That is unfortunate, but also understable. The way that I look at it is that managers get the choice to let their guys play in the Premier league for good pay, or play ball in China for 5times that pay.

The final decision depends on what you are looking for.

Lets face it, if your fighter is fighting in one of the elite orgs, he will always be making more than enough for gym fees, shirts, supplements,... and some savings for later.

 

I am all in favor of the basics of org ownership: communication, flexibility and building relationships for the long term.

Money is secondary.

[Shards]

I think it's an ethics dilemma in a video game, should the #1 org slot be pay to win? That's what this feels like, Chuck is paying money to gain resources and the long term effect is he gets the resources to just hold #1 forever and create a gap with the next best org. You have Alex, Jordan and Randall taking an issue with it because they want their effort to basically equal net 0 gain in terms of being able to play but still have their shot at #1. Mentor doesn't give a fuck because Chuck's existence in the org game means Mentor can make more money.

 

The issue is with injecting resources into a game that hasn't been getting resources injected into it, it's been the means of generating resource in the past, is it unfair or breaking rules? I'd say it's unfair but it's likely not breaking any rules. I expect nothing to happen and inaction is still creates results. Is it even right that an org like Chucks hasn't existed yet?

 

Ends up getting surprising deep for a text based game and I think has more to do with competitive nature than the game itself. No real right or wrong, more a matter of what perspective you take and how you want things to evolve.

[bjornmma1]

I think it's an ethics dilemma in a video game, should the #1 org slot be pay to win? That's what this feels like, Chuck is paying money to gain resources and the long term effect is he gets the resources to just hold #1 forever and create a gap with the next best org. You have Alex, Jordan and Randall taking an issue with it because they want their effort to basically equal net 0 gain in terms of being able to play but still have their shot at #1. Mentor doesn't give a fuck because Chuck's existence in the org game means Mentor can make more money.

///

I do not like speaking for someone else, but actually feel like you misjudge Mentor on this one. He probably does not care because:

1) he has been in the org busines for long enough to know that overpaid contracts will always be around and are not necessary to compete with.

2) he has a big and loyal group of managers, more than happy to send their fighters to Gamma, where always a lot of killers are manning each division.

 

That number one rank for orgs is not all that important. It fluctuates and does not per se show what the 'best' org is.

It is all perception and subjective, as for what truelly determines what is the best org.

All I know is that for me, that number one rank does not always reflect the best org.

 

Overpaying with big money contract offers in my humble opinion does not have to be a big problem for the well established top orgs. These org owners are (or should be) smart enough to work around that without having to overpay and start mad bidding wars.

[imcool]

So much pay to win stench in this thread =X

[Alfred]

Chuck hasn't won anything and isn't guaranteed anything. For all we know he could spend a thousand dollars and never top GAMMA, Pulse or Syn.

 

The vast majority of people so far have said that red panty contracts are low on their list of priorities when joining an org. Pulse will be fine because it's a solid org and Randall is a solid matchmaker. Same for all the others.

 

I personally see the issues raised here as more of a dwindling player base one. More orgs scrapping over a smaller pool of fighters.

[Mentor]

Can you please explain how Chuck's existence means more money for me? If anything, it means less money because i will likely need to increase wages to stay competitive.

 

#1. Mentor doesn't give a fuck because Chuck's existence in the org game means Mentor can make more money.

 

Do i like that someone can "buy their way to the top?", i cannot say i do like it, because i did not use that approach and i feel it is unfair on the organizations that built their company organically, however Mike clearly supports this because he has an auction for selling cash.

[bjornmma1]

Chuck hasn't won anything and isn't guaranteed anything. For all we know he could spend a thousand dollars and never top GAMMA, Pulse or Syn.

 

The vast majority of people so far have said that red panty contracts are low on their list of priorities when joining an org. Pulse will be fine because it's a solid org and Randall is a solid matchmaker. Same for all the others.

 

I personally see the issues raised here as more of a dwindling player base one. More orgs scrapping over a smaller pool of fighters.

 

I do agree with you on 90% of the above.

From experience however, I can say that more managers pick red panties - night, than what they claim over here.

 

Either way, org owners should stay true to their strengths and not get lost in bidding wars.

 

Pulse is doing perfectly fine, although I do understand that not being able to sign top FA's easily due to crazy money offers can be frustrating. However, keep up your good work Randall and you will do just fine. If one day I have top fighters again, I will make sure to send some your way.

[poraan]

Pre/reviews are big thing, especially if writer is veteran that knows something about the game.

Also different types of orgs like HWP would be potential to get fighters signed.

 

 

Kind of mixed feelings about CFC, because i accepted low pay to help new org. Would i have accepted if i would have known that org has unlimited money, probably no.

[Rambo]

Mentor has 77 million. People should of been milking you long ago

 

 

Pre/reviews are big thing, especially if writer is veteran that knows something about the game.

Also different types of orgs like HWP would be potential to get fighters signed.

 

 

Kind of mixed feelings about CFC, because i accepted low pay to help new org. Would i have accepted if i would have known that org has unlimited money, probably no.

 

you joining the coalition of fighters complaining about fighter pay bro?

 

there are so much finances out there you shouldn't have to pay, cheat, or glitch your money to compete with P2W schemes if you've been here long enough. Collaborate. Unite the liberal powers that be to stand up against capitalist scum and corporate overlords. You send the right mass mail out, articulate it properly with minimal salt, and you'd be surprised how much capital will get raised towards the cause. Even a few mil goes a long way because honestly it's all about signing bonuses. The big cash forward incentive.

[poraan]

 

I dont want someone to use reallife money to my fighters. At the same time i feel i was stupid, because i wanted to help new org that didnt actually need any help.

I just wanted decent org for Tantor before top orgs, but seems like i signed him into unknown.

[bjornmma1]

Mentor has 77 million. People should of been milking you long ago

 

 

 

 

you joining the coalition of fighters complaining about fighter pay bro?

 

there are so much finances out there you shouldn't have to pay, cheat, or glitch your money to compete with P2W schemes if you've been here long enough. Collaborate. Unite the liberal powers that be to stand up against capitalist scum and corporate overlords. You send the right mass mail out, articulate it properly with minimal salt, and you'd be surprised how much capital will get raised towards the cause. Even a few mil goes a long way because honestly it's all about signing bonuses. The big cash forward incentive.

Yep yep. As long as the top orgs get along and to some point even work together, there is few one cash cow org could do against that.

So if the elite org owners feel in trouble/threatened , unite.

[Xyel]

On a side note, Chuck buying ig cash for rl money injects some extra motivation into Mike's veins, which could lead to improvements to the game, getting us new features, and perhaps even some marketing to attract new players... so I see a lot of positive externalities.