Ground / Wrestling need fixed ASAP

[BillyRose]

 

you're still just as clueless as you were before you returned under a new moniker.

 

you can't find a competent manager or person in this game that's been around here for a couple years that will tell you the ground game doesn't need tweaking in some way or another. to what degree, that's up for debate. it's a consensus that it needs improvement.

 

find me one fight where a double elite striker only landed 20% of his strikes vs a Remarkable/Respectable striker. you can't. striking efficiency is far superior to grappling efficiency.

 

Just like in real life!

 

 

You're the OP of this topic, right? The Red Belt who can only spam takedowns?

 

How many people in the history of the modern UFC have turned that into a viable strategy?

 

 

I can think of maybe two? Brock Lesnar was one of them. I never saw him throw a significant strike on his feet. He finished with a mediocre 5 wins and 3 losses, despite being quite possibly the greatest athlete in the promotion's history.

 

 

So like I said... Instead of spamming takedowns, have you tried gitting gud?

 

 

REEEEEEEE MIKE CHANGE THIS GAME BECAUSE I LOST REEEEEEEE

 

 

 

REEEEEEEE my fighter who can only do one thing lost REEEEEEEEE

[Rambo]

 

Just like in real life!

 

 

You're the OP of this topic, right? The Red Belt who can only spam takedowns?

 

How many people in the history of the modern UFC have turned that into a viable strategy?

 

 

I can think of maybe two? Brock Lesnar was one of them. I never saw him throw a significant strike on his feet. He finished with a mediocre 5 wins and 3 losses, despite being quite possibly the greatest athlete in the promotion's history.

 

 

So like I said... Instead of spamming takedowns, have you tried gitting gud?

 

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vqEQ9m10sAk/T8Pk_Goh6kI/AAAAAAAAAcM/uglFAqzx_5Q/s1600/lesnarherring.gif

 

we're not talking UFC btw. we're not talking about an elite level fight. something you wouldn't know nothin about cuz you live in QFC 1 padding your record. we're talking about QFC 2. Local MMA level fight.

 

The fight I posted in the OP would be like Ben Askren not being able to takedown Matt Brown or Dan Hardy. it's irrelevant to this discussion outside of evidence that wrestling efficiency level is nowhere near striking efficiency level.

 

if a double elite striker would of thrown 33 head punches vs remarkable/respectable striker, he would of landed a lot more than 5/33, even if that was the only thing he did.

[BillyRose]

we're not talking about an elite level fight. something you wouldn't know nothin about cuz you live in QFC 1 padding your record. we're talking about QFC 2. Local MMA level fight.

 

 

You are running out of things to scream on repeat so all you have left is an attempt on my credibility.

 

Everyone on my roster was created in January or after. Newer fighters use QFCs. It's what they do.

 

They've all entered Orgs now and I still have an overwhelmingly positive record, so you can take this point and wipe your ass with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

if a double elite striker would of thrown 33 head punches vs remarkable/respectable striker, he would of landed a lot more than 5/33, even if that was the only thing he did.

 

 

 

I honestly don't know what to say.

 

Do you want every discipline to be separate but exactly equal because its a video-game?

 

Or do you want everything to be realistic?

 

Make up your mind.

 

 

 

And wow, Brock Lesnar threw a punch one time against the lowest level opponent he ever faced. That doesn't disprove anything I said about him spamming takedowns for his career.

 

 

 

 

You aren't going to add anything more to the conversation. I can tell you're on whine, attack, rinse & repeat now. For that reason, I'm out.

 

Hopefully you'll GitGud. Either that, or Mike will drop everything to make the game easier for you.

[Mannetosen]

Nice catchphrase

[Rambo]

 

 

You are running out of things to scream on repeat so all you have left is an attempt on my credibility.

 

Everyone on my roster was created in January or after. Newer fighters use QFCs. It's what they do.

 

They've all entered Orgs now and I still have an overwhelmingly positive record, so you can take this point and wipe your ass with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I honestly don't know what to say.

 

Do you want every discipline to be separate but exactly equal because its a video-game?

 

Or do you want everything to be realistic?

 

Make up your mind.

 

 

 

And wow, Brock Lesnar threw a punch one time against the lowest level opponent he ever faced. That doesn't disprove anything I said about him spamming takedowns for his career.

 

 

 

 

You aren't going to add anything more to the conversation. I can tell you're on whine, attack, rinse & repeat now. For that reason, I'm out.

 

Hopefully you'll GitGud. Either that, or Mike will drop everything to make the game easier for you.

 

Attacking your credibility? My responses to you have been rather neutral. Speaking facts hurt your feelings much?

 

For somebody that was challenging somebody's reading comprehension earlier, you sure are a fucking moron. lol.

 

 

and Mike make the game easier for me? http://www.mmatycoon.com/statsmanagers.php

go to location, select worldwide. who pops up at the top of Most Wins, Most KO's... I think it's this bad mother fucker.

 

 

you're talking to the KO King, kid. I have more knockouts than you have wins from all of your accounts combined. I want a realistic MMA simulator. if you understood MMA a little better maybe you'd have a clue what you're talking about.

 

 

Time for you to go back to class little guy and put your dunce cap back on, this discussion is for the adults that actually comprehend the mechanics of the engine and the sport of MMA. You have no business in this thread. You're a virgin trying to give sexual advice like he actually knows what the fuck he's talkin about.

[BillyRose]

You also have more losses than I have total fights, and I'm guessing a fair number of those are because you make shitty one-dimension builds and look for mismatches, then bitch about the result if they don't work.

 

 

Although you do have a point. I have realized, far too late, that I'm talking to a no-life whale (the resource-sink kind, not the fat kind, although to be fair I have suspicions) whose sense of importance is derived from an online game. You are one of MMA Tycoon's legendary shit-talkers simply because you take no time to register an insult before going back to stroking yourself. Truly, unbeatable in a war of words.

 

 

I submit.

[TJMitchell]

 

I submit.

 

Oh good. It's only taken a few pages but we're finally back on topic

[Lefty]

 

Restoring some balance does not make one's roster obsolete, if it did then the manager is a complete fool building fighters like that and knowing only one way to fight. You just have to actually think how to set the sliders rather than take advantage of the current engine status and the magically working formula. Escapes should be an option in the future too but right now it's just ridiculous. Have you checked the pops of any fighter that trains escapes? You can see the amount of gain from that session when they have popped from the tycoon assistant. Compare that value to any other skill that popped at similar skill range, it's like doubled value. For example, one of my guys popped escapes from feeble to mediocre last week, gained 3.67 points from that session. When he popped from feeble to mediocre in transitions (he was much younger then and obviously had better learning speed than now) he gained 1.71 points. Now I wonder why everybody has sens-elite escapes. Add to the fact that the engine allows spamming that elite skill in a fight, it's just not right and I cannot find a reason why this hasn't been fixed a long long time ago. It's just little tweaks.

 

It's always the complaint that managers may leave if something is to be changed. Well, managers may leave just as well because things are not changed. It's incredibly frustrating to constantly get fight offers at the top level where you already know what the opponent's gameplan will be and that your guy with variety of skills cannot use most of them to mix it up since the first one to go for the takedown loses. And the fights are always the same shit, many times you just know how it's going to go before you start reading it. That kind of MMA Tycoon is no fun.

Does that mean that escapes are worth more in skill points?

[JakeF]

Does that mean that escapes are worth more in skill points?

 

No, they just train faster.

[JimCornette]

 

you're still just as clueless as you were before you returned under a new moniker.

 

you can't find a competent manager or person in this game that's been around here for a couple years that will tell you the ground game doesn't need tweaking in some way or another. to what degree, that's up for debate. it's a consensus that it needs improvement.

 

find me one fight where a double elite striker only landed 20% of his strikes vs a Remarkable/Respectable striker. you can't. striking efficiency is far superior to grappling efficiency.

How many fighters ONLY strike in the UFC unless forced to grapple? Like 50% of them. Wonderboy, Conor, JDS, Barboza, I could literally name countless examples.

 

How many ONLY shoot takedowns? None of us can name one.

 

There is a reason. And if we aren't modeling this game after the UFC/the highest level of MMA possible, why would it be called a MMA simulation?

 

If you're doing nothing but shooting takedowns desperately hoping one lands, why are you even in an MMA fight? Isn't there a grappling championship or something you can enter?

 

[JakeF]

How many fighters ONLY strike in the UFC unless forced to grapple? Like 50% of them. Wonderboy, Conor, JDS, Barboza, I could literally name countless examples.

 

How many ONLY shoot takedowns? None of us can name one.

 

There is a reason. And if we aren't modeling this game after the UFC/the highest level of MMA possible, why would it be called a MMA simulation?

 

If you're doing nothing but shooting takedowns desperately hoping one lands, why are you even in an MMA fight? Isn't there a grappling championship or something you can enter?

 

 

Man you gotta realize that even if you have elite puncher with elite ground game as well, you still gonna do better by just striking and totally ignoring the ground game. Failed TD attempt eats your energy, also a lot of points for decision win go towards your opponent, if you succeed landing a TD, then it is kinda hard to keep the fight on the ground or even win the points on the ground, since if you are the aggressor(which you should be as a grappler) it is not hard for the opponent to counter-transition and win points and eventually to escape and win even more points - he just needs elite def grappling and some transitions or escapes. I have seen rounds where one fighter lands 5-6 gnp strikes while the other just makes some transitions with 0 total strikes for the round and wins it. Then comes the fact that it is so rare to finish a top fight with a sub that it is ridiculous, especially when the best position for subbing is guard bottom. Basically, feels like ground defense requires so few skills to be effective compared to ground offense.

[JimCornette]

 

Man you gotta realize that even if you have elite puncher with elite ground game as well, you still gonna do better by just striking and totally ignoring the ground game. Failed TD attempt eats your energy, also a lot of points for decision win go towards your opponent, if you succeed landing a TD, then it is kinda hard to keep the fight on the ground or even win the points on the ground, since if you are the aggressor(which you should be as a grappler) it is not hard for the opponent to counter-transition and win points and eventually to escape and win even more points - he just needs elite def grappling and some transitions or escapes. I have seen rounds where one fighter lands 5-6 gnp strikes while the other just makes some transitions with 0 total strikes for the round and wins it. Then comes the fact that it is so rare to finish a top fight with a sub that it is ridiculous, especially when the best position for subbing is guard bottom. Basically, feels like ground defense requires so few skills to be effective compared to ground offense.

Have you ever grappled?

 

A failed takedown attempt should eat your energy, because it is incredibly taxing in real life. If your opponent stops you from taking them down, they're dictating where the fight takes place and should be rewarded for it. So, if you're missing so many takedowns that your opponent is able to win a decision off of it, you need to set up your takedowns better.

 

It IS easier to learn to defend yourself on the ground than it is to be offensive. If all you're doing is training sub defense and guard retention, you're going to get good at it a lot quicker than someone who is focusing on both offense and defense. If you roll against someone whose only goal is to not get subbed, it is almost impossible to sub them unless there is a MASSIVE difference in skill level.

 

The only thing that seems to be needing change is limiting primary skills and maybe getting points for holding top position.

 

 

[GBK16]

While it is supposed to be a simulation of an MMA fight - You also have to consider that it is a Game , and as such things should make sense from a gaming perspective.

 

The only thing that seems to be needing change is limiting primary skills and maybe getting points for holding top position.

You already do get points for holding top position. That's how many Anti-Grapplers end up winning on the ground, they reverse into top position and just lay there until the ref stands them up.

 

Not 100% since I would need to go back and read, but I think Mike mentioned as part of the planned update last year that primaries would be counted more towards the fighter's skill cap than normal.

 

Right now, it counts as 1.0 the same as Secondaries and Physicals. I'm pretty sure he mentioned each point in the skill counting as 1.2 towards the cap. So if your fighter has a cap of 2750 points, and you have Triple Elite / Brown (Minimum needed for all four I might add), your skills would be 140 / 140 / 140 / 100. So instead of counting as 520 as it would now, they would instead count as 624 points, meaning you get basically one less skill in your secondaries.

 

The best suggestion imo is still that Primaries should be reflective of your trained secondaries.

 

You could have different levels of contribution towards the primary - Such as Punches having less contribution to Muay Thai than it does for Boxing. You could also have Physicals contribute to it as well (Flex for MT and BJJ , Balance/Speed for Wrestling , Agility for Boxing etc.) if you don't want it to be so simplified.

 

But this will help with preventing people who only have Def Grap and Transitions, or purely Takedown Defense, from being an Elite Grappler and mean they won't have such a sizable advantage in the engine. How much that difference made would be would have to be found out through testing it out, either using The Island or through another way.

[JakeF]

Even if you look real MMA still there are so many examples of fights where better grapplers manage to take the fight to the ground and keep it there for 15 mins while mauling their opponents or end it earlier by a TKO or sub. In this game with the escapes spamming, this thing to happen is practically impossible. Unfortunatelly, there isn't a way to stop the escape spammers from getting an easy stand up and kill your efforts to get a takedown, no matter your grappling advantage.

 

Now turning to the gameplay aspect of the game - how could grappling be a successful part of the gameplay when you have to struggle to get a takedown, lose energy, lose points(for the record I am not disagreeing with the logic in that) and then if you somehow manage to get a successful roll on a td attempt, your opponent gets an instant escape, without you having the opportunity for a single strike/sub attempt(heavily disagreeing with this). Then you have to try and land another takedown with a lot of struggle, even if you are mixing it with strikes. No wonder this game is nothing but a KT tycoon since at least the time I started playing it. Attempting to bring the fight to the ground(no matter if you are a TD spammer or just 5% TD slider) has more negatives than positives for the outcome of the fight. Yeah, it works in ID orgs level cause one fighter has trained striking, while the other trained grappling etc. but with peaked fighters it is KT that matters.

[Rambo]

How many fighters ONLY strike in the UFC unless forced to grapple? Like 50% of them. Wonderboy, Conor, JDS, Barboza, I could literally name countless examples.

 

How many ONLY shoot takedowns? None of us can name one.

 

There is a reason. And if we aren't modeling this game after the UFC/the highest level of MMA possible, why would it be called a MMA simulation?

 

If you're doing nothing but shooting takedowns desperately hoping one lands, why are you even in an MMA fight? Isn't there a grappling championship or something you can enter?

 

 

Conor shot for TD vs Holloway and laid on him. In this game, Holloway instant-escapes or the ref definitely stands him up. Conor also shot for TD vs Nate Diaz (since we're arguing for the sake of arguing here). In MMATycoon Conor would never have a high enough TD secondary to achieve a successful TD in the 1st place.

 

You appear to have no understanding of the engine or mechanics. You're arguing for the sake of it. Let the grown ups do the debating unless you can provide meaningful input to the mechanics of this game's fight engine.

 

You also have more losses than I have total fights, and I'm guessing a fair number of those are because you make shitty one-dimension builds and look for mismatches, then bitch about the result if they don't work.

 

 

Although you do have a point. I have realized, far too late, that I'm talking to a no-life whale (the resource-sink kind, not the fat kind, although to be fair I have suspicions) whose sense of importance is derived from an online game. You are one of MMA Tycoon's legendary shit-talkers simply because you take no time to register an insult before going back to stroking yourself. Truly, unbeatable in a war of words.

 

 

I submit.

 

For somebody who puts as much effort as this into his replies, you still have no clue wtf you're talking about or who you're talking to lol.

 

 

p.s. at the very worst, I'm just as much of a loser as you buddy.

[Mannetosen]

Barboza worked tds against ferguson before getting subbed too iirc

[Rambo]

The best suggestion imo is still that Primaries should be reflective of your trained secondaries.

 

I agree with this but physicals shouldn't be tied into it. I don't want to see old fighters depop a primary because their physicals are declining. You're not a brown belt one day and a purple belt the next because you forgot to stretch & do yoga & shit.

 

 

 

Sparring stays relevant because it increases all secondaries related to that skill, albeit a minimal gain in comparison. Maybe have it control depops more. i.e. if you spar a primary it resets any potential depop related to that skill til that timer comes up again.

[Rambo]

I submit.

 

Chris Karter's beatdown of Billy Rose has made headlines and has been documented here.

[Shiv]

PS: Demian Maia basically just spams takedowns. And he does it wonderfully well.

[Freddie]

 

Chris Karter's beatdown of Billy Rose has made headlines and has been documented here.

 

 

You should leave Billy alone... hes going to break out in tears soon... or maybe thats the goal? Make the estrogen come pouring out?

[Mannetosen]

chris is trying to have a go at billy's rose

[GiankaBonghi]

The takedowns spam are actually broken, because i dont see any correlation between failing 10 takedowns in a row and the fucking cardio.

[Lavenders.pink]

what about a feint slider? Feint vs commit. it could add some variety and would definetly make takedowns more realistic and more effective. but not just takedowns. it would also add to the standup. i know nithing about codeing and shit but it doesnt seems like it would be the hardest thing to add in.

[Rambo]

what about a feint slider? Feint vs commit. it could add some variety and would definetly make takedowns more realistic and more effective. but not just takedowns. it would also add to the standup. i know nithing about codeing and shit but it doesnt seems like it would be the hardest thing to add in.

 

Realistic but I just don't feel like it's worth adding anything to new to the engine. Can make shit worse. I really think an instant-takedown roll after an escape (if a box was checked) would semi-help counter escape effectiveness.

[kdmh74]

One thing I've noticed about the ground game is, it scores you hardly any points over stand up. I've had fighters dominate opponents on the ground yet lose decisions because his opponent hit him with a couple of shots during the minute or so in each round where the fight was on the feet