Is it Ethical?

[dushira]

What do you think of a manager that owns a Fighting Organisation and that pits two of his own fighters (both 0-0) against each other at the first event for a title belt? Is there something wrong with that?

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/orgupcomingeventpublic.php?EvID=913

 

 

[MMATycoon]

If they want their org to do well long term then they will need to put on proper title fights, so they won't gain anything from it. I'm sure the next fight they'll put the winner up against someone else's fighter so we'll see if they can keep him as a champion. In short I don't have a problem with it - if people think they're not going to get a shot at a title then they'll sign with another org and that company will lose out.

[dushira]

If they want their org to do well long term then they will need to put on proper title fights, so they won't gain anything from it. I'm sure the next fight they'll put the winner up against someone else's fighter so we'll see if they can keep him as a champion. In short I don't have a problem with it - if people think they're not going to get a shot at a title then they'll sign with another org and that company will lose out.

 

Great, Thanks for the clear and very quick answer!

 

[Guest]

just gotta think about it as if it were a real fight organization... you're not going to attract top talent if you're running things crooked and without other peoples' talent your organization will fail

[WhisperingDeath]

There's much of questionable ethicality that goes on in some promotions. You might want to check who the most hyped fighters are in some organizations. Sometimes the fighters with the best records just so happen to be owned by the same guy that owns the org!

 

It's important to not simply look at the contract you're offered, but look at the org to see if the org will promote your fighter and give him sensible matchups or if the org will just use your fighter to feed the org owner's own fighters.

 

PRIDE strives to be the most unbiased organization in MMATycoon. We know that our future is putting on the best fights and bringing together the best fighters in the world.

[dushira]

just gotta think about it as if it were a real fight organization... you're not going to attract top talent if you're running things crooked and without other peoples' talent your organization will fail

 

It looked pretty shady to me, that's why I asked this question.

 

But since it's an upstart organization and maybe there is still no other fighter at this weight class, I don't have any problem. It will probably get better and better with time.

 

[Setsuna]

Yeah, that's not cool. The reason I'm chiming in though, is I can understand how difficult it is to put your first card together. I'm rushing mine, I knew it going in, but I didn't know that half of my contracted fighters were already pre-scheduled for quick fights. My fault, I know, and it's lead to my card shaping up to be my fighters vs. other guys just to fill in the card. I really didn't want to do it that way, but that's how it turned out.

 

So maybe that's what happened here, just trying to fill out the card. Wait and see I guess...

 

 

[Nitrus]

Also, I didn't think that will be cool when he got 20+ Orgs per city..

 

What about let only some managers create Orgs?

Like who is now..

 

When you open to full public, man, that will get out of control, like 20~30+ Orgs, and will not be cool :S

 

I think before you open it live, you should restrict the orgs to who is playing now :S

I know that will give some serious inflict at VIP purchase, but thats necessary to the game stay cool

 

Don't know, just my opinion

[FrankyFin]

Also, I didn't think that will be cool when he got 20+ Orgs per city..

 

What about let only some managers create Orgs?

Like who is now..

 

When you open to full public, man, that will get out of control, like 20~30+ Orgs, and will not be cool :S

 

I think before you open it live, you should restrict the orgs to who is playing now :S

I know that will give some serious inflict at VIP purchase, but thats necessary to the game stay cool

 

Don't know, just my opinion

im a bit worried about that too. i see quite some possible abuse people could do with the system like it is now, but no systems perfect. only thing you can do is just try to fight "the crime". like having some pre-conditions to be met before someone can open an organisation (like having been an active member for 1-2 months and/or that an Org needs approval before it can go live).

 

[MMATycoon]

Well I hope that it grows in proportion.

 

We have about 15% VIP. Let's say that 1/3 of those people make an org. That is 1 in 20 people creating an org.

 

20 people (if there is 15% VIP) can create 80 fighters so that's 80 fighers per org. What do you reckon is an optimum number of fighters per org? I think probably 1/3 people is a bit high anyway... maybe 1/4 of people would create an org.

 

In time there will be more types of company which will reduce the amount of orgs being created. I agree that this will be an issue but there are ways to combat it. Perhaps even by increasing the amount of fighters that a non VIP can create to 4 and VIPs to 11. That's another 10% more fighters instantly to spread around the orgs.

[SoothSlayer]

Sharp takes it.

[Setsuna]

Not a bad idea about the extra fighters. I didn't realise how intense the competition was in Tokyo, I looked at the number of fighters in the country, amount of organisations, and fighters signed per org, figured there was an easy roster just sitting there waiting to be signed up......but I never thought about inactive players/free agents.

 

But the amount of competition does keep things interesting, you've got to not only follow your own fighters, but alsdo other organisations so you can guess when their contracts expire.

 

Anyway, I'm happy, I was able to fill up a 9 fight card ( would have been 10, but I got a bit carried away signing guys one day that a St. Petersbger guy slipped in, whish I could cancel that fight ).

 

And now there's another org in Tokyo, so 350 fighters, 5 orgs.....but probably at least 50 or so fighters are inactive. Going to be tough.

[Nitrus]

You can for example..

 

Today, CFC and King of Rio are the best companies..

 

So, this companies, would get all the fighters that they want, and another Orgs, would get fighters that has low hype, record, dont know ..

 

For example, CFC and Kings of Rio could get all fighter in a scale of 1 to 10.. they get 10

 

YB Sol, Mike Mann, all these top fighters, would join only Orgs that are high level considering some factor, as Hype, or record, that you'll decide..

 

Fighters that are unknown, would like to build their reputation, so, the bigger companies would be able to invite them to fight there..

 

Just an idea

Don't know if I was clear :S

[Guest]

although CFC and Kings of Rio would be their top choice in in those respective locations...an organization can only sign so many fighters, so it will leave talent for the others to build on.

 

Going to a smaller organization gets you more fights for u and coming fighters to boost their hype and win total. I already feel bad that some of the fighters in my organization have to wait for fights at times.

 

I've definitely learned my lesson though with my own fighters, newly created fighters need to fight inexperienced guys like themselves before taking a shot at fighters who were created much earlier and had a chance to increase their skill level. eventually you can catch up to them, but it'll definitely take a couple of months.

 

I also know i have a lot of good fighters I created, or in my organization with pretty good skills but have just lost to great opponents cause unfortunately there are no easy fights in these top organizations.

 

 

[WhisperingDeath]

Of course, that's the thing. When you're the best org, managers have read the wikipedia website, they know the bennefits of putting their fighters in the best org possible.

 

The better the org's hype the better the results for fighters who perform in that org are going to be.

 

In Tokyo, for example, PRIDE is the #1 org and will only be accelerating in hype through the phenomenal Grand Prix. Any manager worth his salt wants to sign his guys to PRIDE where they will be given the best matchups and fight in front of the most fans.

 

But there's also about 4 smaller orgs who are all fighting over the 0-0 fighters that are just trying to get their start.

[Nitrus]

Thats my point..

 

In each city, should be one or two big Orgs..

In that Org, the fighter must reach certain Hype, Number of Victories don't know, but when he reach that point, he can fight there..

Until that, he fight in the small orgs, which can be ruled by Normal VIP members that will join in the future.. and the big ORgs, ruled by somebody that is old here, or do a good work in MMATycoon and is very participative here in the forum..

 

 

[MMATycoon]

One way to do this would be to limit the number of fighters you can sign to an org, to e.g. 100. This way the big orgs would naturally want to have the best 100 that they could and the other orgs would be able to pick up the other guys.

[Nitrus]

But can't you imagine the day where there will be 20~30 small orgs, and you didn't even know which Org is the best or things like that?

 

I think that if there's more than 10 orgs per city, is a mess already :S

[Guest]

One way to do this would be to limit the number of fighters you can sign to an org, to e.g. 100. This way the big orgs would naturally want to have the best 100 that they could and the other orgs would be able to pick up the other guys.

 

I agree with this one.

[MMATycoon]

I think we can probably limit the creation of new orgs as long as there is a clear enough warning that this might be the case before people buy VIP, as well as giving them a way to check if they can create an org. The last thing I want is people signing up for VIP thinking that they can make an org and then they aren't allowed to.

[Guest]

I had a brief conversation with Mike about this and I'll summarive what I said to him.

 

I don't think a cap on fighters that can be signed is really necessary. I currently run two events every single week, which means 40 fighters get fights every week for me. I'm at around 120 fighters now, which means a rotation of fighting once every three weeks. That's a pretty good balance of rest/fight/training.

 

As my org grows, I'm not going to want to sign a bunch of 0-0 guys. It's not profitable for me. I"m trying to fill big venues. I can't afford to have a bunch of crappy fighters in the future. I estimate that within a month I will be ENTIRELY out of the market for rookie fighters. I will focus my recruiting efforts on bringing in top talent from other orgs - just like the UFC does.

 

People may not like it, but it's the reality. Inevitably there will be 1-2 promotions in each city that rise to the top. They will be the place that great fighters want to go compete...because you fight other top fighters, get the biggest pay days, etc.

 

I've signed 20 guys in the past two days. But that's not going to be a frequent occurence.

 

I think the system as it stands right now is fine. I don't think we should implement rules that take an element of risk otu of running a business. People shouldn't be starting fight orgs if there isn't enough talent in the region to support it. It wouldn't work in the private sector, why make it work in MMA Tycoon?

[Nitrus]

You made a good point here..

 

Maybe Mike should let stay how it is, but IMO, is something that really need to be discussed to prevent LOTS of orgs in the future, that would mess it all :S

 

And as said above, probably will have 2 ORGs that will determine everything in each city, I agree, and I hope that becomes the truth, cause if there around 5~8 ORGs, in cities that today are extremelly with lack of fighters,gyms, managers...man, that will not be cool

 

 

[Guest]

Frankly, if there are too many orgs in a city...some will fail. Just like the real world, if a business enters a market that is already full, there simply won't be space and they will go bankrupt.

 

I don't think the game should implement too many safeguards to stop stupid people from doing stupid things.

 

All of this said, I'm not completely opposed to the idea of a cap. It depends entirely though on where it's set. I think a cap at 100 or 120 is bad for organizations. I think a cap at 175 could be very reasonable depending on the circumstances and terms.

 

Nothing is an absolute...except Mike's freedom to do what he wants with his game.

[MMATycoon]

Just to keep people in the loop on what I've said to mjmcnns in PMs. We've been discussing the level of the cap and I agree that actually 100 is too low. 150-175 is a more reasonable range.

 

I think our main difference of opinion on this one is that I actually do have to guard people against their own indiscretions and eagerness, where possible. People are bound to just sign their fighters to the first org that comes in for them (in a lot of circumstances), just because they'll get excited.

 

Also, I can't expect people to understand everything straight away, so often they'll sign a contract with a long inactivity clause to the wrong org... obviously it's "tough shit" when that happens but I have to limit that happening too, because if people get pissed off they leave and don't come back.

 

Anyway, the most important part of all this is that I have no doubt once there is the option to hire staff, someone will start running loads of shows, even if they make minimal profits. So long as the cap is in the realms of normal use for a large org, I think it does no harm to have it there.... it's a simple way to prevent a lot of potential problems. It also acts as a cap in general terms on how much an organisation can make, financially. I don't want people raking in millions of dollars per week. I am also going to implement a diminishing returns on events, so if you hold too many events in a short period of time, your fanbase basically gets burnt out and you don't make as much money.

 

Back to the cap. The UFC has how many fighters do they have signed? 200? Then the orgs below that in real life must be about 50-75. I think somewhere in the range of 150-175 would be reasonable as you say... Anyway, it's actually quite hard to implement given that there are both active and pending contracts so I dont think it will be implemented for a few weeks. When it is though, assume it will be 150 signed contracts with 175 signed + pending.

 

The number of orgs per city though, I don't actually think it's that big a deal if there are a lot of orgs in each city. There are currently 3000 fighters and about 30 orgs in the game. If we have that sort of ratio, I think it's fine. There can't be hundred and hundreds of fighters per org - that just doesn't work at all as it's too much work for the org owners and not enough activity for the fighters. Comparing it to real life on this front - there probably aren't many more than 3000 MMA fighters active in the world at the moment. We have that number already and will grow to maybe 100,000. That's a non-realistic number of fighters in terms of real life so we need a non-realistic number of orgs to accommodate them.

 

Note though that we will be adding more cities when necessary. I think probably 10 orgs and 1000 fighters per city will be about the level we settle at.

[Guest]

Just to be clear, Mike and I largely agree on the subject and I absolutely understand that his need as a proprietor is different than mine as a fictional business owner in a fictional game.

 

I have no issues with a cap given further thought and discussion. It really just depends on where that cap is. As an org owner, I suspect my thoughts will be different than those of the owner of MMA Tycoon. And that's just life. I definitely get that he has a business to run and I support that whole-heartedly.