Goatacre Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I was just looking over the fighter hall of fame - it's amazing that Golden Glory is still the highest ID fighter to have made it to top spot, and even that achievement was, in part at least, owed to the game engine at the time (i.e. the counter issue). Golden Glory has an ID of 86108, Victor Creed is 83315 and then there's quite a jump to Pasi Kullero at 63532. The current number 1, Otso Jokinen, comes in as next "youngest" with 62968. Given we're now up to ID range of over 207k, it's a sure sign that the demise of older fighters is a long overdue change, so that will be great when the current development work that Mike is working on is completed. For instance, the IDs of the current P4P top ten are: Jokinen 62968 Creed 83315 Moses Diggs 73449 The Dos Equis Guy 96983 Matt Murdock 86168 Taj al Din 76481 Kim Hoo Lee Chit - irrelevant as he's a QFC fighter Emeka Shakur 70663 J Breaker 29365 Don Marciano 70356 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EzekelRAGE Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I dont disagree with you on your piece about older fighters washing out. The fact that training changes happened around that time as well played a part. Those fighters only had to deal with maintenance for the most part, since skillwise they were probably monsters (Im assumin). While the younger generation that wouldve "dethroned" those guys had to deal with the learning nerf/age nerf/maintenance etc. So it's gonna take them slightly longer to reach them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 On a slightly related note, why isn't Fidel Puno in the hall of fame? Is it because he lost the retirement fight with Bubba, and the forced retirement wiped his highest rank record? (It shows a highest rank of 0?!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 You have some nice up and coming fighters atm who will be able to challenge this year. Guys like http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=129313 Ricardo Gracie http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=125922 Budo Rei Those two are close the now. In ID orgs you have guys like http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=169721 Antonio Carlos Ferreira http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=167187 Scotty Bennet I know they are plenty more but those 2 are really the only two bar my own that i follow. Training time has made it needing near enough a year of training time before you fight. They will never be another Golden Glory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Current state of the game has guys coming into their own in their mid-late 20s. Not sure if that's what you'd call a bad thing tbh. Golden Glory was an amazing example of how broken the 100% counter era was -- height + counter = winning streak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Yeah, 100 counter era was the only time I've been relevant in the slider game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Current state of the game has guys coming into their own in their mid-late 20s. Not sure if that's what you'd call a bad thing tbh. Couldn't agree more. Fighters in their early 20s should not be anywhere near the top of their game yet. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Showdown Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I know it's not quite #1 P4P, but Waru Kuzuri made it to #2 P4P at one point and he is 123850 (26 years old right now) Budo Rei made it to #8 P4P at one point and he is 125922 (26 years old right now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I was just looking over the fighter hall of fame - it's amazing that Golden Glory is still the highest ID fighter to have made it to top spot, and even that achievement was, in part at least, owed to the game engine at the time (i.e. the counter issue). Golden Glory has an ID of 86108, Victor Creed is 83315 and then there's quite a jump to Pasi Kullero at 63532. The current number 1, Otso Jokinen, comes in as next "youngest" with 62968. Given we're now up to ID range of over 207k, it's a sure sign that the demise of older fighters is a long overdue change, so that will be great when the current development work that Mike is working on is completed. Most of the top 10 are between 28 and 30 years old. Whats wrong with that? The physical and mental prime of most athletes is between the ages of 27-32. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 You have some nice up and coming fighters atm who will be able to challenge this year. I thought you were about to start bigging up my fighters then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 As for the age thing, I agree that fighters in the rough range 27-31 should be the guys at the top of their game. Obviously we'll see what Mike comes up with in his latest development but, given they've been trained from 18 in most cases, the majority of fighters should be declining in ability from 32. For most fighters that provides somewhere around 10 years in-game fighting time if they were a project, even longer in other cases. The current top 10 (Ethan - I know you've had a couple close/in it who are quite a bit younger, I just happened to take a look today) includes one aged 34 and another aged 36. Regardless of the quality of their manager, they hopefully won't be sticking around right at the top for much longer when the changes are made. It will always be a subjective matter where true consensus won't be possible - should a fighter in their "early 20s" be able to make it to the top? I agree that Golden Glory was, however good he might actually have been, the beneficiary of a peculiar set of circumstances and we shouldn't see a 21 year old make it to the top again in the future. However, I don't see a problem with a fighter making it there are 25, possibly even 24. We all say that actually as the fighters become more highly skilled then the relative difference in skill levels becomes proportionately less, and therefore supposing they have high quality hiddens then there's absolutely no reason why they couldn't or shouldn't be able to make it. It would be a rare occurrence, definitely, but that's how it has been in real life - the obvious example is Jon Jones, who won the LHW title at 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 My only current young buck who is close to sniffing the top of the heap is Anthony Ace Ventura, primary wise he isn't there, but he is 10th in NY for MW's and is currently 588 p4p. He is 24 yo's currently fighting in an ID restricted org, tickers just kicked in for him unfortunately though. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=151485 His boxing primary is the only thing that really needs work right now, he has all the other skills to get there. Hidden wise I am not as sure of him. Kuzuri is probably one of the very best of his generation of fighters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 I think Creed must have been 25 or 26 when he hit #1. Lance or someone with a better memory could give us an exact age. Fighters who get to that elite level in their early 20's in real life/modern mma are guys who have a decided physical advantage, this game really can't let us simulate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 My only current young buck who is close to sniffing the top of the heap is Anthony Ace Ventura, primary wise he isn't there, but he is 10th in NY for MW's and is currently 588 p4p. He is 24 yo's currently fighting in an ID restricted org, tickers just kicked in for him unfortunately though. http://www.mmatycoon....php?FID=151485 His boxing primary is the only thing that really needs work right now, he has all the other skills to get there. Hidden wise I am not as sure of him. Bennet just got his tickers too. At 22 he is at 75.9%. He has more skill than my 32 year old High Voltage at 75.3%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted February 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Bennet just got his tickers too. At 22 he is at 75.9%. He has more skill than my 32 year old High Voltage at 75.3%. Particularly given he's thought 13 times, that's extremely impressive. My guy, Viv Richards, who's very close in ID to Bennet (it bothers me there's only one 't' in his name! ) is at 78.1% but has only fought once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Particularly given he's thought 13 times, that's extremely impressive. My guy, Viv Richards, who's very close in ID to Bennet (it bothers me there's only one 't' in his name! ) is at 78.1% but has only fought once! Lots of quick KO wins. There were more than a few times when he only missed a session or two of training. His 9th fight was the first to get out of the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisPartridge Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Big fan of that guy at number 4. Completely unrelated to the topic but I've never once in my 3+ years gushed about one of my fighters. Figured it was about time I gushed a little bit about Dos Equis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 The current top 10 (Ethan - I know you've had a couple close/in it who are quite a bit younger, I just happened to take a look today) includes one aged 34 and another aged 36. Regardless of the quality of their manager, they hopefully won't be sticking around right at the top for much longer when the changes are made. Anderson Silva and Dan Henderson are 37 and 42 respectively, Couture was also competitive in his early 40s and Lindland remained a top MW into his late 30s. Certain styles and certain fighters age better than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatacre Posted February 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Anderson Silva and Dan Henderson are 37 and 42 respectively, Couture was also competitive in his early 40s and Lindland remained a top MW into his late 30s. Certain styles and certain fighters age better than others. As I said, we'll never have everyone agreeing. Thankfully it seems Mike is also of the opinion that these sorts of ages are too high for the viability of the game (it's an area where realism needs to take a little more of a backseat, in myview). Besides, Henderson is pumped up on TRT, which will surely be made illegal in future generations (although that is only since 2007, I believe, so he was an old fighter already obviously). As has pointed out above, there is a legitimate reason why real-life fighters are potentially able to hit the top at a younger age than they can in-game and so it's not unreasonable that real-life allows for the freak athletes to remain near the top at an age that should exceed what is possible in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanax Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Jeremy Horn is what... 89-21-5?@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Anderson Silva and Dan Henderson are 37 and 42 respectively, Couture was also competitive in his early 40s and Lindland remained a top MW into his late 30s. Certain styles and certain fighters age better than others. These guys are the exceptions to the rule. Most fighters start declining in their early 30s. I would have no problem with a longevity hidden, where the vast majority of fighters would start declining around 28-32, with one or two Randy Coutures in each in-game generation. That kind of longevity would need to be as rare as the TDPW, though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 These guys are the exceptions to the rule. Most fighters start declining in their early 30s. I would have no problem with a longevity hidden, where the vast majority of fighters would start declining around 28-32, with one or two Randy Coutures in each in-game generation. That kind of longevity would need to be as rare as the TDPW, though. Thing is it's not that rare; it's actually fairly common with guys who have Greco Roman wrestling backgrounds; all the four main guys from Team Quest (Sonnen, Couture, Lindland, and Henderson) remained competitive at the top of their division comfortably to 35 years old(and in the case of Hendo, actually seem to have gotten *better*). It's just stylistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 Again I mention that studies have shown it has little to do with age and more to do with length of career. the average time before decline is 9 years after which point the decline is very rapid. Most of the wrestlers that were mentioned started professional MMA careers much later then the average. Hence they are active later into their lives then those that started at 18. Henderson and Couture are still anomalies that should be exceedingly rare especially in this game, but my point is that setting a hard date and then giving a range from that point is probably not the best way to handle it. Rather making the 9 year mark be the deciding factor is a better way. Start the timer when the character is created and I bet you'll see a lot more people getting their fighters fighting a bit sooner also and so won't have as many 22 year olds with Sensational across the board. Of course that point might be moot when Mike finishes the training update. That way 25 years olds won't be screwed as soon as they satart to get good and 18 year olds will not be Gods among mortals by their 23'rd birthday. Well, theat last part might still happen, but anyway. The research is out there. 9 years being the average and then we can go from there. I think the hit from the age drop off should be pretty severe. Like say 5% reduction in Physicals in the first year past the "Longevity Point" the following year it climbs up to about 10% or maybe 15%, etc... those numbers are right off the top of my head but I think you get the idea. The hit could also be across all skills and not just Physicals (whether that is realistic or not). Could even up the interval instead of years we are talking about maybe every 6 (in-game) months or every quarter. Hell could even be every week after the "Longevity Point" that you lose skill points. Point is that the age thing should hit hard but should not be carved in stone that at 30 shit starts to roll down hill. Otherwise I agree that the old guys need to decline, but that is already coming. I even agree with the concept of what you guys are working towards I just think that using age is not the way to go. At least not entirely. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 With how quick the game is 3 months to the year. I'd make it around 32 when they start declining. that is 3 years in real life. More than enough time to train rack up time. If its gonna be put in a hidden make it between 32-35. Please do not point out that Anderson Silva is 38. Its a game. Most fighters after 12 years fighting start to lose the will to fight and take less and less fights. I don't know many 35+ year olds that take more than 2-3 fights a year. If they do its mostly against Cans etc not at the top level of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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