What did I learn sacking fighters based on learning speed?

[barney]

So for my 360k ID batch I decided to change my criteria for keeping projects: learning speed.

Good learning speed? Keep. Bad learning speed? Sack this trash.

All fighters ticked the Heart+Chin+KO Power box.

Without further ado, lets check out what did I get:

My first 3 tests all came with crazy learning speed and seems like good hiddens as well, so I kept them and still use them so far: Myke Bonner, Zai Druggs and Valdeci.

 

So far so good! Really lucky with this ID range!

And then, the nightmare began.

[barney]

Test Four - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/image_blank.gif
Intelligence: 13/150.
Heart: 38/150.
Chin: 125/150.
Injury Proneness: 26/150.
Self Confidence: 49/150.
Cuts: 1/150.
Fast Learner: 57/150.
Natural KO: 69/150.
Average: 47.3/150. Rank: 189,218 out of 197,303 (top 96%)

Experience: 31/150.
Potential: 120/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 28 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 116,496)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 204,743)


Look at this sad mother fucker. He doesnt even have the right to an avatar. This is disgusting. I think this is the rock bottom average hidden ever revealed. "Solid chin" LOL

[barney]

Test Five - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/20/20a1.jpg
Intelligence: 133/150.
Heart: 101/150.
Chin: 111/150.
Injury Proneness: 102/150.
Self Confidence: 142/150.
Cuts: 6/150.
Fast Learner: 63/150.
Natural KO: 51/150.
Average: 88.6/150. Rank: 68,831 out of 197,303 (top 35%)

Experience: 5/150.
Potential: 120/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 116,493)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 204,742)

 

 

Thats... Huh.... Decent. Thats actually quite decent. Shitty bleeder, which makes it bad for an aggro/acc cheese, and he cant do much else with that KO power... But good chin, IQ, Confidence, Heart... also great Potential/Age Drop off!
I should have kept this.

[barney]

Test Six - Hiddens Report.

http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/26/26w26.jpg

Intelligence: 116/150.
Heart: 31/150.
Chin: 74/150.
Injury Proneness: 9/150.
Self Confidence: 17/150.
Cuts: 119/150.
Fast Learner: 57/150.
Natural KO: 113/150.
Average: 67.0/150. Rank: 166,310 out of 197,303 (top 84%)

Experience: 33/150.
Potential: 116/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 29 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 116,492)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 204,741)

Just KO power. Reasonable, but not outstanding. Bad learning speed. Chin non-reliable and baaaad confidence+heart combo... Could make this work? I doubt it.
Would pop "KO power" or "Big Right Hand" or "Heavy Handed" probably. Could I win a KT tourney with this? I doubt it.

[barney]

Test Seven - Hiddens Report.

http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/1/1b12.jpg

 

Intelligence: 72/150.
Heart: 44/150.
Chin: 133/150.
Injury Proneness: 18/150.
Self Confidence: 9/150.
Cuts: 74/150.
Fast Learner: 64/150.
Natural KO: 143/150.
Average: 69.6/150. Rank: 158,733 out of 197,303 (top 80%)

Experience: 14/150.
Potential: 117/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 115,868)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,895)

I gotta tell ya. This KO power and this Chin makes me giggle. Nervous giggle. From sacking this. Learning speed is deal? Fuck no. But hey... Good potential and good age drop-off... This guy was not made for Org Id Restricted, but he had brilliant future. (We could argue about his crippling condifence tho)

[barney]

Test Eight - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/24/24b2.jpg

Intelligence: 90/150.
Heart: 57/150.
Chin: 33/150.
Injury Proneness: 14/150.
Self Confidence: 98/150.
Cuts: 130/150.
Fast Learner: 77/150.
Natural KO: 77/150.
Average: 72.0/150. Rank: 150,257 out of 197,303 (top 76%)

Experience: 37/150.
Potential: 120/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 34 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 115,867)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,894)

This guy sucks.

[barney]

Test Ten - Hiddens Report.

http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/27/27b2.jpg

Intelligence: 140/150.
Heart: 86/150.
Chin: 79/150.
Injury Proneness: 49/150.
Self Confidence: 117/150.
Cuts: 23/150.
Fast Learner: 74/150.
Natural KO: 45/150.
Average: 76.6/150. Rank: 130,388 out of 197,303 (top 66%)

Experience: 22/150.
Potential: 119/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 33 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 115,953)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,678)

Too bad I built this with Muay Thai primary. This could actually have been a great grappler.

[barney]

Test Eleven - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/28/28b3.jpg

Intelligence: 136/150.
Heart: 97/150.
Chin: 144/150.
Injury Proneness: 11/150.
Self Confidence: 120/150.
Cuts: 91/150.
Fast Learner: 91/150.
Natural KO: 36/150.
Average: 90.8/150. Rank: 58,532 out of 197,303 (top 30%)

Experience: 53/150.
Potential: 119/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 34 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 115,952)
Days of Injuries: 1 (Rank: 169,123)

 

At LHW, punch starts becoming a factor. But still, just look at this. WHAT? WHAAT?! Fun fact, I tested this and it did pop Granite Chin. I sacked cause learning speed "not up to my standards". Look at that CHIN! Not a bad averade, Bubba KillsInWater has pretty close average (94). This could have been gold.

[barney]

Test Thirteen - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/6/6b2.jpg

Intelligence: 128/150.
Heart: 69/150.
Chin: 117/150.
Injury Proneness: 130/150.
Self Confidence: 100/150.
Cuts: 146/150.
Fast Learner: 61/150.
Natural KO: 147/150.
Average: 112.3/150. Rank: 3,536 out of 197,303 (top 2%)

Experience: 44/150.
Potential: 120/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 116,353)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,733)

 

OH COME FUCKING ON.

[barney]

Feeble Hiddens - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/18/18b1.jpg

Intelligence: 9/150.
Heart: 79/150.
Chin: 62/150.
Injury Proneness: 86/150.
Self Confidence: 14/150.
Cuts: 124/150.
Fast Learner: 141/150.
Natural KO: 70/150.
Average: 73.1/150. Rank: 146,040 out of 197,304 (top 74%)

Experience: 56/150.
Potential: 119/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 122,389)
Days of Injuries: 5 (Rank: 117,894)

I tested his speed and was like "Fuck wow!". Then tested hiddens. "Inexperienced". Yeah. Not good. But, you know... Good speed... Im sure he is gonna crush guys at ID restricted for like 6 to 8 fights and then when hiddens starts to kick in you just sack the guy... Right? Second fight: "Prefers stand up". Yeah, this is fucked up. Went 100% aggro and still he didnt even try to land a single punch. BAD. Insta sack.

[barney]

Test Fifteen - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/27/27b2.jpg

Intelligence: 100/150.
Heart: 150/150.
Chin: 113/150.
Injury Proneness: 49/150.
Self Confidence: 1/150.
Cuts: 45/150.
Fast Learner: 79/150.
Natural KO: 39/150.
Average: 72.0/150. Rank: 150,594 out of 197,303 (top 76%)

Experience: 21/150.
Potential: 119/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 30 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 103,574)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,256)

 

Heart and chin combo could make some fun comebacks, maybe a boring GnP guy? But 1 confidence? ONE? Tough. Not sad I sacked this.

[barney]

Test Sixteen - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/37/37a2.jpg

Intelligence: 60/150.
Heart: 106/150.
Chin: 139/150.
Injury Proneness: 15/150.
Self Confidence: 60/150.
Cuts: 19/150.
Fast Learner: 50/150.
Natural KO: 115/150.
Average: 70.5/150. Rank: 155,687 out of 197,304 (top 79%)

Experience: 16/150.
Potential: 119/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 123,365)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,257)

Dunno. Granite Chin AND power... But that learning speed? Dunno if I would endure training this. Dunno even if he would get to his full potential until starting to depop

[barney]

Test Seventeen - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/8/8w4.jpg

Intelligence: 76/150.
Heart: 51/150.
Chin: 104/150.
Injury Proneness: 130/150.
Self Confidence: 30/150.
Cuts: 110/150.
Fast Learner: 90/150.
Natural KO: 88/150.
Average: 84.9/150. Rank: 88,254 out of 197,303 (top 45%)

Experience: 48/150.
Potential: 118/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 103,655)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,341)

 

Bad Heart+Confidence... But "Solid Chin", maybe workable? Also learning speed not good but also not that bad. Thats quite decent. Dunno if #1 p4p material, but probably could end up snatching a belt

[barney]

Test Eighteen - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/33/33w14.jpg

Intelligence: 7/150.
Heart: 123/150.
Chin: 133/150.
Injury Proneness: 79/150.
Self Confidence: 82/150.
Cuts: 43/150.
Fast Learner: 93/150. > This is a 5.25 learner.
Natural KO: 109/150.
Average: 83.6/150. Rank: 94,600 out of 197,303 (top 48%)

Experience: 9/150.
Potential: 118/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 29 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 103,650)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,340)

 

I still have some 5.25 learners from my first batch. Let me tell you, they are lagging behind HARD in skills compared to my other fighters... But they keep pulling some under dogs and getting wins against higher primary fighters. With patience, this could be very good.

[barney]

Test Nineteen - Hiddens Report.
http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/20/20a1.jpg

Intelligence: 58/150.
Heart: 78/150.
Chin: 73/150.
Injury Proneness: 18/150.
Self Confidence: 32/150.
Cuts: 117/150.
Fast Learner: 50/150.
Natural KO: 142/150.
Average: 71.0/150. Rank: 153,957 out of 197,303 (top 78%)

Experience: 38/150.
Potential: 116/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 32 years.

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 102,882)
Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,155)

Trash. Even that glass cannon KO power would not mean much with shit confidence.

[barney]

BONUS:

Bulgin Dickrilla - Hiddens Report.

Intelligence: 144/150.
Heart: 57/150.
Chin: 115/150.
Injury Proneness: 88/150.
Self Confidence: 79/150.
Cuts: 23/150.
Fast Learner: 120/150.
Natural KO: 33/150.
Average: 82.4/150. Rank: 101,102 out of 197,304 (top 51%)

Experience: 103/150.
Potential: 117/123. (Min 96).
Age Drop Off: 30 years.

Days of Cuts: 39 (Rank: 5,818)
Days of Injuries: 38 (Rank: 32,889)

I tested this guy on my first batch. Solid chin, good learning speed... Keeper, right? But I was never able to make him perform! He never delivered! I started suspecting early on he had shit KO power. Even as a SUPER HW, he just couldnt finish. So that just leaves me with cheesing decisions. I know my slide set up wasnt bad cause It worked with other fighters with similar match up. He was losing fights he should be winning by FAR. When I checked his hiddens, my suspicions were right: he had bad heart, borderline confidence (he didnt lose much after loss) and SHIT KO power (and remember, I checked KO power box).

[barney]

So... After all this

 

What did I learn?

A "perfect" TotT is not all. Lots of good/granite chins or KO powers here that would probably endure 2-3 fights until you realize they are unusable and get sacked (or 7 fights if you are a beginner/stubborn).

Learning speed is also not all. I regret sacking a few of these guys based on learning speed, just because the game is slow enough I didnt care for GREAT fighters on the long run, I was a returning manager without anything to keep fighting at the time and had to have fighters that could train and fight early to keep me interested.

So, you are a new guy, starting this game? Returning and dont remember whats the best way to get things going? What I learned is get some 3-4 25yo (maybe Island, if early season) guys to keep it going and keep you interested. Get the rest of the batch as projects and mix it up! Dont check JUST learning speed. Dont rage sack "mid tier" hiddens. Test them early! Get them to do 2-3 fights. Read the text, watch how they perform what you slided. If they deliver... Fuck it, keep'em! Chance is they have overall good average hiddens that will take you really far. They ARE winning after all. If the guy has a "great TotT" with good learning speed... Dont insist. If it doesnt perform, invest a little bit in physicals. Still dont perform, sack'em. Again, 3 fights is enough for this.

[Arcalimon]

I read all of it. Such a great thread! Informative and fun : D

Thank you for this experiment. You invested VIP in it and shared your results.

When I was a noob this would have been (but probably still is) gold!

[Xyel]

That's great information. Thank you for the detailed writeup!

 

One thing I've noticed is that some fighters just fight well, while other don't and I haven't figured out what hiddens play into it and how, because one of the guys I'd been keeping for way longer than I should had was an "Enjoys gardening" guy. But he fought well, for some reason.

[Gator001]

very good thread, thanks

[Rambo]

Test Eighteen - Hiddens Report.

http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/33/33w14.jpg

Intelligence: 7/150.

Heart: 123/150.

Chin: 133/150.

Injury Proneness: 79/150.

Self Confidence: 82/150.

Cuts: 43/150.

Fast Learner: 93/150. > This is a 5.25 learner.

Natural KO: 109/150.

Average: 83.6/150. Rank: 94,600 out of 197,303 (top 48%)

 

Experience: 9/150.

Potential: 118/123. (Min 96).

Age Drop Off: 29 years.

 

Days of Cuts: 0 (Rank: 103,650)

Days of Injuries: 0 (Rank: 210,340)

 

I still have some 5.25 learners from my first batch. Let me tell you, they are lagging behind HARD in skills compared to my other fighters... But they keep pulling some under dogs and getting wins against higher primary fighters. With patience, this could be very good.

 

 

Kajun Puno - Hiddens Report.

 

Intelligence: 39/150.

Heart: 145/150.

Chin: 139/150.

Injury Proneness: 125/150.

Self Confidence: 113/150.

Cuts: 72/150.

Fast Learner: 95/150.

Natural KO: 138/150.

Average: 108.3/150. Rank: 7,085 out of 197,307 (top 4%)

 

Experience: 147/150.

Potential: 118/123. (Min 96).

Age Drop Off: 31 years.

 

 

 

 

6-5 at one point in ID orgs... all opponents had massive primary advantage over him entire career. I don't think he ever reached his skill cap and was declining before hitting top.

 

 

Point being is that I thought he was the slowest learner ever. and he was hampered in handicap mode entire career. That learner that you had who was in the 50's, he wouldn't of been ready to debut until 29-30 lol... learning speed just gets slower and slower after creation, it aint like the 60-70 sessions to wonderful is going to stay the same... that turns into 80... 90... 100s...

 

learning speed will straight up kill a fighter, but I still don't select it upon creation. only because active atm to hidden farm/fighter roll.

[Bwang]

Almost four years of VIP spent on the experiment. That’s impressive alone.

[Bombex]

Great post. Very informative

[barney]

That's great information. Thank you for the detailed writeup!

 

One thing I've noticed is that some fighters just fight well, while other don't and I haven't figured out what hiddens play into it and how, because one of the guys I'd been keeping for way longer than I should had was an "Enjoys gardening" guy. But he fought well, for some reason.

Exactly. Its a little bit of ego, you know. Like some other grinding games like Diablo/Torchlight/Path of Exile, etc etc. People just want to get that "PERFECT ENDGAME GEAR" to show off how bad mofo they are... But you can do the game with much less and it just works... If the guy is winning... Meh, fuck it. See how long it takes you, learn to slide around it and when you do get that perfect hiddens guy it will give you better returns

 

 

 

Kajun Puno - Hiddens Report.

 

Intelligence: 39/150.

Heart: 145/150.

Chin: 139/150.

Injury Proneness: 125/150.

Self Confidence: 113/150.

Cuts: 72/150.

Fast Learner: 95/150.

Natural KO: 138/150.

Average: 108.3/150. Rank: 7,085 out of 197,307 (top 4%)

 

Experience: 147/150.

Potential: 118/123. (Min 96).

Age Drop Off: 31 years.

 

 

 

 

6-5 at one point in ID orgs... all opponents had massive primary advantage over him entire career. I don't think he ever reached his skill cap and was declining before hitting top.

 

 

Point being is that I thought he was the slowest learner ever. and he was hampered in handicap mode entire career. That learner that you had who was in the 50's, he wouldn't of been ready to debut until 29-30 lol... learning speed just gets slower and slower after creation, it aint like the 60-70 sessions to wonderful is going to stay the same... that turns into 80... 90... 100s...

 

learning speed will straight up kill a fighter, but I still don't select it upon creation. only because active atm to hidden farm/fighter roll.

Dont you tell me that. I still have 2 guys like that. The grinding is REAL. Its a PITA to train them. I wanted to transition this guy to MMA, but he is a brick. He is more dense than some trolls around here.

 

And for all the rest, thanks for the kind words. Hope it helps the community understanding hiddens a little better.

[HareRumpler]

Great stuff here. Has me thinking and pondering quite a bit, which in itself was a great add just to get people thinking a little, even if they come back to the same conclusions in the end, but at least it forces one to think it through again!