Hiddens, how do you rank them?

[boomstick]

If something similar to this has been done before I apologize. I've heard a lot of different opinions on what hiddens different managers value above others. I'm sure a lot of you will pick very similar rankings but, In what order do you guys prioritize the hidden traits? This is open to interpretation. If you typically create brawl and sprawlers your preferences are likely to be different from that of someone who is building a TWGC grappler. Just post your ideal hidden priority for what YOU tend to build most of the time. If you feel like posting different answers for different builds knock yourself out. I'll get started...

 

For your typical brawl and sprawler or GNP wrestler this is my current preference

 

1. Granite Chin

(I'd rather avoid a KO than get one, There's always a decision win if all else fails)

2. KO power

(It is however nice to knock your opponent's on their asses)

3. Confidence

(I'm beginning to realize that this is more important than it looks)

4. Cuts

(What's the point of a granite chin if you're going to bleed out?)

5. Intelligence

(The more PBP's I read the more I realize that an intelligent underdog can wreck a stupid title holder)

6. Heart

(It seems like heart can pull a fighter's ass out of the fire if he made some mistakes)

7. Fast learner

(I used to value this a lot more but, after learning about how it effects your fighter's 'peak' I feel it's most valuable to tourney fighters.)

8. Injuries

(Having an injury prone fighter can suck but, it's not too terrible)

9. Amateur experience

(It's nice and all but, It only seems effective for your first couple fights)

10. Popularity

(I don't much care for this one. I feel like my fighters should earn their hype/pop)

 

I think that's all of them. For a submission specialist here's my list:

 

1. Granite Chin

(You need it unless you only plan on doing TWGC but, that's just not feasible)

2. Intelligence

(Surprised? Maybe I'm biased but, I've got a very smart grappler and he's my favorite fighter. If I mess up my sliders he compensates excellently)

3. Cuts

(if you're forced to go the distance you don't want to be bleeding all over the place.)

4. Heart

(If you're getting your ass handed to you, I feel like this could save the day and allow for that much needed takedown)

5. Confidence

(No-one wants their guy huddled in a corner begging for mercy)

6. Injuries

(You'll likely need a lot more sparring and I'm not too confident about sparring with damaged goods)

7. Fast learner

(He doesn't need to learn fast. I just can't stand super slow learners)

8. KO power

(This one should probably be higher on the list because, one day your grappler might need to stand toe to toe with someone)

9. Amateur experience

(Like I previously stated it's nice but, not necessary)

10. Popularity

 

 

 

With all that said, I feel like KT fighters don't need intelligence at all but, other than that they're very similar to my brawl and sprawlers

 

I left comments to explain the reasoning behind my rankings but, you guys don't have to. If you feel like quoting me and disagreeing with my choices feel free! I'm still pretty green and would love any input. Don't worry I can take the criticism

 

[itakebrides]

Are we talking about skill over all or what pops on the tale of the tape?If skill overall i would put heart above intelligent and confidence since you can slider fu you way out of then if there other hiddens or out of this world.You cant slider you way out of no heart .Ever have a guy with granite chin with no heart it depressing to watch .I would also put cuts below average to fast learners if the cutting not to bad.A super slow leaner who does not cut aint going anywhere .

 

Saying that I like having a intelligent fighter.Seem they can overcome bad sliders settings for joe average mangers like my self.

 

 

 

7. Fast learner

(I used to value this a lot more but, after learning about how it effects your fighter's 'peak' I feel it's most valuable to tourney fighters.)

 

 

 

I suspected myself fast learners depop faster when they reach there peak .Also there peak is smaller then average learners Is this true ?I like to learn what you learned

[Wolf]

No matter what the build, i always pick granite chin, KO power and heart. The rest are nice to have, but only if you survive long enough for them to be used. Chin is obvious, whatever the build your guy needs a chin. KO power, obvs for strikers its important but there will come a point in your grapplers career where he wont be able to sruvive just on his grappling chops, if his grappling doesnt get it done some KO power would be great for him. Heart is huge imo, if your guy has a granite chin but no heart he will just turn into a punching bag, and also helps survival odds on the ground.

[PBR]

im not really sold on granite chin anymore -- i rather have heart and its usually the first hidden i pick -- just see so many granite chin fighters getting ko'ed -- heart sort of acts like a chin helper plus extra -- intelligence is another one i like and feel is needed -- confidence is good one although you can work around bad confidence is still pretty tough to do

[Rain]

Granite chin is my favorite at lower weight classes (up to 155). Combined with a good private gym, granite chins at lower weight classes are monsters.

[PBR]

Moses Sithole (28) 28 Fights 0 days (0.00 per fight)

 

he must of gotten 150 of injuries hidden -- had 28 fights and never had an injury -- too bad really cause he could of used that 150 hidden elsewhere -- lol

[762x39]

I almost always pick, chin, KO power, and heart. I have 3 guys that I picked IQ, chin, and heart. 2 are fighting, one has done well, the other has strugled, the last is about to start fighting. Of the 3 one has 138IQ, one has 144IQ, and one has 118IQ. The lowest is the one that is strugling the most, but he is a slow learner, wish I would have went KO power with him instead. I will probably not pick IQ again, and go back to my normal picks at creation.

 

I also rank confidence almost as high as those 3, but I do a QFC as soon as they are created and hope to lose, I don't throw them, but hope they lose! That way I can see morale after a loss and know what the confidence is. If they drop below 75% I cut them regardless of if they show granite chin or not. In the past I had a few fighters that would drop really low, and Johnny Freedom is the only one that was able to do OK with it.

 

As for IQ my best guys have been low, Autumn, Cole, and Zander are all in the 80's and have done well. I just set them to 100% follow orders. That is why I will not pick it again. After seeing how the high IQ guys do, I think it is a little over rated.

[catako]

7. Fast learner

(I used to value this a lot more but, after learning about how it effects your fighter's 'peak' I feel it's most valuable to tourney fighters.)

 

 

 

I'm very curious about this point as I never heard or read too much about this. How does fast learning affect the peak of a fighter ?

If some1 can explain this I will be greatfull.

[Guest]

Depends on the build, but the one I always pick is heart. If your fighter doesn't have a granite chin or KO power there are ways around that in terms of fight strategy and fighter development, and a fighter can still be successful without those, but in my opinion a fighter who draws a low value for heart has an almost zero chance of being a top fighter. The slightest bit of adversity, inevitable against good fighters, and he'll fold like a deckchair. We've all had a fighter like that, and it's extremely frustrating.

 

Confidence is also very important, I'd say all the top managers would release a fighter whose morale plummeted to zero after a defeat.

 

 

I'm very curious about this point as I never heard or read too much about this. How does fast learning affect the peak of a fighter ?

If some1 can explain this I will be greatfull.

If I'm not wrong learning speed simply means a fighter will reach his peak abilities quicker than he otherwise would have. This can be useful if he's in an ID restricted org as he'll develop faster than his peers and with the right hiddens become the top fighter in the org. Personally I rarely pick it because I don't mind waiting a little longer for my fighters to peak with heart, confidence and 1 other ability (KO power or granite chin, usually) as opposed to sacrificing one of those just for him to peak sooner.

[GBK16]

Personally, I always go with Chin, KO Power and Heart for my hiddens on a fighter when I create them. If your fighter has all three of these at a high level, he has the potential to be a top fighter. Learning Speed is helpful in order to dominate in ID orgs, but by the time fighters hit the cap, it's all even and comes down to the other hiddens in regards to who is more of an overall package.

[MBennet]

I also rank confidence almost as high as those 3, but I do a QFC as soon as they are created and hope to lose, I don't throw them, but hope they lose! That way I can see morale after a loss and know what the confidence is. If they drop below 75% I cut them regardless of if they show granite chin or not. In the past I had a few fighters that would drop really low, and Johnny Freedom is the only one that was able to do OK with it.

 

Actually you don't have to lose to check your confidence, altough losing is the most accurate.

 

For me it's:

 

Stand-up comedians fighters:

Granite Chin -> KO power -> Heart -> Confidence -> IQ -> fast learner -> doesn't cut easily -> injuries -> experience -> popularity

 

Gropers grapplers:

Granite Chin -> Heart -> IQ -> Confidence -> fast learner -> doesn't cut easily -> KO power -> injuries -> experience -> popularity

 

PS. Btw:

 

Moses Sithole (28) 28 Fights 0 days (0.00 per fight)

 

he must of gotten 150 of injuries hidden -- had 28 fights and never had an injury -- too bad really cause he could of used that 150 hidden elsewhere -- lol

 

 

Is there a limit on hiddens? Do they always sum up to the same number on every fighter?

Edited September 12, 2015 by MBennet

[rjs2442]

Like GBK said, learning speed is great in the early stages of a fighters career but by the time they hit 24-26 (prime) everything is fairly level and it is the fighters hiddens that mean the most. When I first started the game I was a dumb ass and ALWAYS went with fast learner and that is why I created so many shit fighters!! Now like many have said, I go with Granite, KO Power and Heart. I still create shit fighters but many have just a tiny bit more of a chance lol

[boomstick]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the input. It seems like heart is a lot more important than I thought. I feel like it's the perfect counter to a confident fighter that's demoralizing you. I just have a real hard time gauging heart. How do you guys measure it?

 

Like GBK said, learning speed is great in the early stages of a fighters career but by the time they hit 24-26 (prime) everything is fairly level and it is the fighters hiddens that mean the most. When I first started the game I was a dumb ass and ALWAYS went with fast learner and that is why I created so many shit fighters!! Now like many have said, I go with Granite, KO Power and Heart. I still create shit fighters but many have just a tiny bit more of a chance lol

 

That was my problem too. Still a dumbass but, with your help I'm learning I've still got a lot of fighters that'll need to be cut because of their fast learning but, I might as well make the most out of them in the meantime.

[Rocket]

Actually you don't have to lose to check your confidence, altough losing is the most accurate.

 

For me it's:

 

Stand-up comedians fighters:

Granite Chin -> KO power -> Heart -> Confidence -> IQ -> fast learner -> doesn't cut easily -> injuries -> experience -> popularity

 

Gropers grapplers:

Granite Chin -> Heart -> IQ -> Confidence -> fast learner -> doesn't cut easily -> KO power -> injuries -> experience -> popularity

 

PS. Btw:

 

 

 

Is there a limit on hiddens? Do they always sum up to the same number on every fighter?

I think from reading the wiki every fighter is created with a different potential I.e their hidden total is different but Idk for sure

[madbob]

I think from reading the wiki every fighter is created with a different potential I.e their hidden total is different but Idk for sure

 

they talking about, what hiddens they prefer on a fighter when they find out what he has. And therefor making it worth to keep him. No that what you quoted is the actuall herachie

[KingEpicity]

im not really sold on granite chin anymore -- i rather have heart and its usually the first hidden i pick -- just see so many granite chin fighters getting ko'ed -- heart sort of acts like a chin helper plus extra -- intelligence is another one i like and feel is needed -- confidence is good one although you can work around bad confidence is still pretty tough to do

 

I agree with this, granite chin by itself is severely overrated. A fighter with a good chin, amazing heart and KO power or HH/BRH will wreck a granite chin with lousy heart or KO power.

 

BUT

 

Granite chin is the pinnacle of the hidden to pop and unless things change on how hiddens pop it will stay that. Strictly because of the establish hierarchy, a fighter who pops granite chin has more potential than any other hidden. This doesn't mean the fighter won't be a bum tho, but a granite chin could potentially had KO power, amazing heart, confidence, intelligence AND that granite chin to make him a monster. Or he could just have granite chin and have pillow hands, no confidence or heart and a horrible cut and injury hidden and some you wished you insta-sacked.

 

With Granite chin you know the 1 thing he does have and you know nothing else your fighter does or does not have. So while said project has the biggest potential he is also the biggest mystery. The more you go down the hierarchy the more and more you know about what your fighter doesn't have. If you pop KO power, you know you don't have a granite chin and that is no big deal, you could still have a good/solid chin so it's still an amazing hidden to pop. If you pop good/solid chin you know you don't have a granite chin or KO power. If you pop Heavy Hands or Big Right Hand, you know you don't have a granite, KO power or a good/solid chin. If you pop anything below these, you know you don't have any of these hiddens at a top level. BUT, they could almost all be right under the cut off line and you could still have a decent fighter but just don't expect him to be a #1 P4P fighter because fighters like that are far and in between.

[762x39]

I think you are exactly right, just because a fighter dont show granite chin, does not mean to cut them. It takes more than one good hidden to make a good fighter. I have kept guys that showed cuts easy and had them turn out good. I have seen a few be great. The only thing that makes me cut a fighter automaticaly is going below 75% morale after a loss, or a really slow learner. I dont even worry if they are kind of slow, as long as they have good hiddens. Now that there is a skill point cap, all fast learning does is hit it faster.

[KingEpicity]

Yeah as long as you train your fighter all the time and don't slack in setting training and he's not a super slow learner I see no reason to go after just fast learners. It definitely comes in handy early on if you're fighting in low ID orgs. For example a 7.5 fast learner 280k fighter is gonna have a good advantage going up against other 280ks as long as he has good hiddens. But that will hardly matter once he hits cap unless you hide said fighter in an ID org way past hitting cap. I believe depops and degrading of skills happens a lot sooner tho so that is a big negative IMO. I think Scotty Bennett was a good example JLP elaborating one saying how he starting losing points in his mid twenties which is awful.

[shortfuse122829]

185 and under

 

KO Power, Granite, Intelligence, Heart, Confidence, Fast Learner, Experience, Cuts, Injured, Popularity

 

205 and above

 

KO Power, Heart, Granite, Intelligence, Cuts, Confidence, Injury, Popularity, Experience, Fast Learner

[MrClean]

The hiddens I pick are not always the hiddens i value most

[Ramirez]

 

I agree with this, granite chin by itself is severely overrated. A fighter with a good chin, amazing heart and KO power or HH/BRH will wreck a granite chin with lousy heart or KO power.

 

BUT

 

Granite chin is the pinnacle of the hidden to pop and unless things change on how hiddens pop it will stay that. Strictly because of the establish hierarchy, a fighter who pops granite chin has more potential than any other hidden. This doesn't mean the fighter won't be a bum tho, but a granite chin could potentially had KO power, amazing heart, confidence, intelligence AND that granite chin to make him a monster. Or he could just have granite chin and have pillow hands, no confidence or heart and a horrible cut and injury hidden and some you wished you insta-sacked.

 

With Granite chin you know the 1 thing he does have and you know nothing else your fighter does or does not have. So while said project has the biggest potential he is also the biggest mystery. The more you go down the hierarchy the more and more you know about what your fighter doesn't have. If you pop KO power, you know you don't have a granite chin and that is no big deal, you could still have a good/solid chin so it's still an amazing hidden to pop. If you pop good/solid chin you know you don't have a granite chin or KO power. If you pop Heavy Hands or Big Right Hand, you know you don't have a granite, KO power or a good/solid chin. If you pop anything below these, you know you don't have any of these hiddens at a top level. BUT, they could almost all be right under the cut off line and you could still have a decent fighter but just don't expect him to be a #1 P4P fighter because fighters like that are far and in between.

does anyone know the exact order of the hierarchy? i knew granite chin is top and i assumed ko power was right up there but not sure of the rest of the order....

[UniConor]

does anyone know the exact order of the hierarchy? i knew granite chin is top and i assumed ko power was right up there but not sure of the rest of the order....

http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48564&hl=hierarchy

[762x39]

Thanks for posting that link, very helpful!

[Bwang]

Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the input. It seems like heart is a lot more important than I thought. I feel like it's the perfect counter to a confident fighter that's demoralizing you. I just have a real hard time gauging heart. How do you guys measure it? .

One way to gauge heart is how quickly they recover after being rocked.

[Ramirez]

http://www.mmatycoon.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48564&hl=hierarchy

cheers mate, i guess it's as close as we are going to get for an official list..