Jacman Posted June 13, 2017 Report Share Posted June 13, 2017 Wouldn't work. Jordan is/was a POS but absolutely dominant on the court. Lebron is dominant too but nowhere near as clutch. Guy never hits buzzer beaters. Ever. I'll be honest, as a Miami Heat fan, I'm a big time Cav hater. But Kyrie is phenomenal. Never realized how good he was til this finals. Durantula FTW! and getting Iggy with it. Probably the best line I heard in the playoffs, was "Getting Iggy with it!" -talking about Andre Iguadala. Wait are you saying that Lebron not being as clutch as Jordan means him and pop wouldn't work? Either way I think the point was valid Jordan had a far superior coach to anyone Lebron has had. If Lebron had pop and that system he might have gone 6-0 as well. Did you not watch last years finals? I think kyrie was even more impressive then. The dude is amazing offensively, absolutely no weakness but his defense is a liability. Most exciting player in the game rn though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 14, 2017 Report Share Posted June 14, 2017 Wait are you saying that Lebron not being as clutch as Jordan means him and pop wouldn't work? Either way I think the point was valid Jordan had a far superior coach to anyone Lebron has had. If Lebron had pop and that system he might have gone 6-0 as well. Did you not watch last years finals? I think kyrie was even more impressive then. The dude is amazing offensively, absolutely no weakness but his defense is a liability. Most exciting player in the game rn though. Felt like last year the GS defense was playing poorly after the 3-1 lead compared to this year, he seemed D'd up A LOT better and was still doing his thing with shooting hand and off-hand. Til he got hurt, he was incredible. I'm saying that Lebron James doesn't want to be coached so being on a team with a coach like Pop wouldn't work. I don't think MJ would of worked on Pop's team either - too much of a prima-dona. Phil Jackson wasn't Pop when he was with the Bulls. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Bulls missed the finals when MJ retired and repeated when he returned. I think for the most part Phil let MJ do his thing, much like they let Lebron do his thing in Cleveland. I'm sure coaches play a pretty big role, but not nearly as significant as a role as Pop plays in San Antonio. To me Pop reminds of an NBA version of Bill Belichick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 Felt like last year the GS defense was playing poorly after the 3-1 lead compared to this year, he seemed D'd up A LOT better and was still doing his thing with shooting hand and off-hand. Til he got hurt, he was incredible. I'm saying that Lebron James doesn't want to be coached so being on a team with a coach like Pop wouldn't work. I don't think MJ would of worked on Pop's team either - too much of a prima-dona. Phil Jackson wasn't Pop when he was with the Bulls. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Bulls missed the finals when MJ retired and repeated when he returned. I think for the most part Phil let MJ do his thing, much like they let Lebron do his thing in Cleveland. I'm sure coaches play a pretty big role, but not nearly as significant as a role as Pop plays in San Antonio. To me Pop reminds of an NBA version of Bill Belichick. You can't say he doesn't want to be coached if he never had a coach that won a title. He doesn't respect his coach's because they let him do whatever he wants. They even let him talk them into all of the signings of washed up players and over paying for Thompson. LeBron is the perfect fit for Pop's system he isn't a scorer as much as he wants to be a distributor. LeBron is an older version of kwahi Leonard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2017 Report Share Posted June 18, 2017 I saw somewhere that showed the teams LeBron went against in the finals we're far better than the teams that Jordan faced. The bulls we're like the warriors of today dominant and the favorites every year. LeBron is the only reason the cavs weren't swept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacman Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 I saw somewhere that showed the teams LeBron went against in the finals we're far better than the teams that Jordan faced. The bulls we're like the warriors of today dominant and the favorites every year. LeBron is the only reason the cavs weren't swept. Agreed, Jordan had by far the best team in a weak expansion era but that's never factored in that pristine 6-0 finals record. Lebron lost, Duncan lost, Kobe lost, Bird lost, Magic lost, and shaq lost but they all faced much tougher competition. Had Jordan faced their level of competition I'm sure he would have lost at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Wouldn't work. Jordan is/was a POS but absolutely dominant on the court. Lebron is dominant too but nowhere near as clutch. Guy never hits buzzer beaters. Ever. I'll be honest, as a Miami Heat fan, I'm a big time Cav hater. But Kyrie is phenomenal. Never realized how good he was til this finals. Durantula FTW! and getting Iggy with it. Probably the best line I heard in the playoffs, was "Getting Iggy with it!" -talking about Andre Iguadala. LeBron has hit more than a few buzzer beater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 LeBron has hit more than a few buzzer beater Game winning shots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Agreed, Jordan had by far the best team in a weak expansion era but that's never factored in that pristine 6-0 finals record. Lebron lost, Duncan lost, Kobe lost, Bird lost, Magic lost, and shaq lost but they all faced much tougher competition. Had Jordan faced their level of competition I'm sure he would have lost at some point. Doubt the Bulls would of lost in their era. They were too good. MJ, Kerr, Rodman, Pippen ... that's just the tip of the iceberg. MJ trained and practiced harder than Lebron ever could. MJ was the ultimate competitor. It's rare to find athletes like that with his type of ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Game winning shots? Look it up he has hit more than a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Doubt the Bulls would of lost in their era. They were too good. MJ, Kerr, Rodman, Pippen ... that's just the tip of the iceberg. MJ trained and practiced harder than Lebron ever could. MJ was the ultimate competitor. It's rare to find athletes like that with his type of ability. When people say stuff like that its just an opinion. Nobody is there during the training days and we can see inside to see who has it and who doesn't. If we could there would be way more competition to LeBron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 When people say stuff like that its just an opinion. Nobody is there during the training days and we can see inside to see who has it and who doesn't. If we could there would be way more competition to LeBron. MJ's work ethic is legendary. Jerry Rice style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 MJ's work ethic is legendary. Jerry Rice style. Where is your proof of this were you training with MJ and Jerry rice or did you just hear about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted June 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Here goes the debate of "MJ is better than Lebron due to him being a better clutch scorer and having 6-0 compared to 3-4 Lebron has". Also Chris, i am not sure why you are a Lebron hater, sure he dumped you, but he also took the Heat to 4 finals and 2 wins, the best 4 years in the Heat's history. If Lebron came to the Lakers and got us 4 finals appearances and then dumped us, i would be fine with that. Anyway, the big deal the Cav's need to do this summer is offload 2 years of Kevin Love for Paul George (1 year). Paul already said he will join the Lakers in 2018, so Inidiana will likely benefit from getting a longer term asset. In 2018 it is widely expected Lebron and possibly Kyrie will be leaving the Cav's, but if their unit with George works, maybe they can persuade him to renew to at least try and repeat. A team with those 3 could be enough to challenge GS (although it will depend mostly on injuries or form, GS is still better i think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Here goes the debate of "MJ is better than Lebron due to him being a better clutch scorer and having 6-0 compared to 3-4 Lebron has". Also Chris, i am not sure why you are a Lebron hater, sure he dumped you, but he also took the Heat to 4 finals and 2 wins, the best 4 years in the Heat's history. If Lebron came to the Lakers and got us 4 finals appearances and then dumped us, i would be fine with that. Anyway, the big deal the Cav's need to do this summer is offload 2 years of Kevin Love for Paul George (1 year). Paul already said he will join the Lakers in 2018, so Inidiana will likely benefit from getting a longer term asset. In 2018 it is widely expected Lebron and possibly Kyrie will be leaving the Cav's, but if their unit with George works, maybe they can persuade him to renew to at least try and repeat. A team with those 3 could be enough to challenge GS (although it will depend mostly on injuries or form, GS is still better i think). I agree with you but it's not loves fault they lost it's the system they play in and the role players are all old and can't run with the bench of the warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Trade is official finally the Sixers finalized a deal to acquire the No. 1 overall pick from the Celtics in exchange for the No. 3 pick and a protected future first-round pick. The Celtics will acquire the 2018 Lakers pick the Sixers own if it falls between No. 2 and 5. If the Lakers pick does not convey, the Sixers will send the better of their own 2019 pick and the Kings' selection. However, the Celtics will receive the lesser pick if either 2019 pick is No. 1 overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Where is your proof of this were you training with MJ and Jerry rice or did you just hear about it. Documentaries. Use google. Those are two athletes that very few men of their caliber on the planet have ever hustled or worked as hard as. Work ethic, competitiveness, desire to win, drive, ambition - can surpass talent or physical traits. Here goes the debate of "MJ is better than Lebron due to him being a better clutch scorer and having 6-0 compared to 3-4 Lebron has". Also Chris, i am not sure why you are a Lebron hater, sure he dumped you, but he also took the Heat to 4 finals and 2 wins, the best 4 years in the Heat's history. If Lebron came to the Lakers and got us 4 finals appearances and then dumped us, i would be fine with that. Anyway, the big deal the Cav's need to do this summer is offload 2 years of Kevin Love for Paul George (1 year). Paul already said he will join the Lakers in 2018, so Inidiana will likely benefit from getting a longer term asset. In 2018 it is widely expected Lebron and possibly Kyrie will be leaving the Cav's, but if their unit with George works, maybe they can persuade him to renew to at least try and repeat. A team with those 3 could be enough to challenge GS (although it will depend mostly on injuries or form, GS is still better i think). I don't think 'Lebron hater' is fair. I admit he's one of the most physically dominant basketball players of this generation, I'm just not a fan and don't root for the guy. I enjoy watching him lose. I've seen him quit in games with the Heat. I've seen him come up short when it's clutch time. I've seen him completely dismiss himself defensively guarding inferior basketball players. He's great. He's a future Hall of Famer. But if we're being honest, he's not Michael Jordan. That's a fact. MJ is twice the competitor that Lebron is. I didn't like when he left the Cavs and made a spectacle to announce his decision with the Heat. I don't care for his attitude, "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, etc" and his "I aint go no worries" after winning the championship and then bailing after he mentally checked out of the finals vs the Spurs. If we would of won that series he would of still been with the Heat. And the icing on the cake is him trying to say that Basketball players are better athletes than football players because they play both offense and defense - yeah, because you guys play grab ass and don't hit each other lol. He's an example of why kids should have to do a year or two in college before going pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Trade is official finally the Sixers finalized a deal to acquire the No. 1 overall pick from the Celtics in exchange for the No. 3 pick and a protected future first-round pick. The Celtics will acquire the 2018 Lakers pick the Sixers own if it falls between No. 2 and 5. If the Lakers pick does not convey, the Sixers will send the better of their own 2019 pick and the Kings' selection. However, the Celtics will receive the lesser pick if either 2019 pick is No. 1 overall. That's a nice deal for the Celtics. It must mean that they are sold on Isiah Thomas as the centerpiece. They'll get a better fit for their team at #3 and pick up a high pick a year or two later. Sixers must be sold on Fultz as an elite PG. Looks like they are finally done with the rebuild. Time too let the kids play and hope they get good fast enough to contend before they start leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 19, 2017 Report Share Posted June 19, 2017 Documentaries. Use google. Those are two athletes that very few men of their caliber on the planet have ever hustled or worked as hard as. Work ethic, competitiveness, desire to win, drive, ambition - can surpass talent or physical traits. I don't think 'Lebron hater' is fair. I admit he's one of the most physically dominant basketball players of this generation, I'm just not a fan and don't root for the guy. I enjoy watching him lose. I've seen him quit in games with the Heat. I've seen him come up short when it's clutch time. I've seen him completely dismiss himself defensively guarding inferior basketball players. He's great. He's a future Hall of Famer. But if we're being honest, he's not Michael Jordan. That's a fact. MJ is twice the competitor that Lebron is. I didn't like when he left the Cavs and made a spectacle to announce his decision with the Heat. I don't care for his attitude, "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, etc" and his "I aint go no worries" after winning the championship and then bailing after he mentally checked out of the finals vs the Spurs. If we would of won that series he would of still been with the Heat. And the icing on the cake is him trying to say that Basketball players are better athletes than football players because they play both offense and defense - yeah, because you guys play grab ass and don't hit each other lol. He's an example of why kids should have to do a year or two in college before going pro. What you call quit I call being fatigued from having to play almost every minute in every game. Mj is the best at the moment but at the end of LeBron's career he could be in the top three of almost every statistic that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 MJ won 6 NBA championships out of 7 seasons he played. He also won finals MVP all 6 times if iirc. LeBron is great in all, but he just isn't MJ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 MJ won 6 NBA championships out of 7 seasons he played. He also won finals MVP all 6 times if iirc. LeBron is great in all, but he just isn't MJ. What your forgetting is that mj came in the league with a more refined game LeBron came straight out of high school and was forced to be what he wasn't for his whole career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 That's a nice deal for the Celtics. It must mean that they are sold on Isiah Thomas as the centerpiece. They'll get a better fit for their team at #3 and pick up a high pick a year or two later. Sixers must be sold on Fultz as an elite PG. Looks like they are finally done with the rebuild. Time too let the kids play and hope they get good fast enough to contend before they start leaving. Yeah I heard that means we won't pursue Lowry now which is a bit of a relief. If we cut Henderson's non-guaranteed money I think we'd have like 60 mil available so I feel like if we are going to pay people now to compete for a playoff spot they should be on deals that end when Simmons and Fultz rookie contracts are up. Our owner has already said that he's willing to pay the luxury tax to compete so we should be able to tie all of those guys up through at least their second contract. I'm glad that we got protections on both picks at least because it wouldn't totally shock me if that Kings pick is competing for #1 in 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Yeah I heard that means we won't pursue Lowry now which is a bit of a relief. If we cut Henderson's non-guaranteed money I think we'd have like 60 mil available so I feel like if we are going to pay people now to compete for a playoff spot they should be on deals that end when Simmons and Fultz rookie contracts are up. Our owner has already said that he's willing to pay the luxury tax to compete so we should be able to tie all of those guys up through at least their second contract. I'm glad that we got protections on both picks at least because it wouldn't totally shock me if that Kings pick is competing for #1 in 2019 Lowry would of been a huge mistake in my opinion He's a bit overrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacman Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 Documentaries. Use google. Those are two athletes that very few men of their caliber on the planet have ever hustled or worked as hard as. Work ethic, competitiveness, desire to win, drive, ambition - can surpass talent or physical traits. I don't think 'Lebron hater' is fair. I admit he's one of the most physically dominant basketball players of this generation, I'm just not a fan and don't root for the guy. I enjoy watching him lose. I've seen him quit in games with the Heat. I've seen him come up short when it's clutch time. I've seen him completely dismiss himself defensively guarding inferior basketball players. He's great. He's a future Hall of Famer. But if we're being honest, he's not Michael Jordan. That's a fact. MJ is twice the competitor that Lebron is. I didn't like when he left the Cavs and made a spectacle to announce his decision with the Heat. I don't care for his attitude, "not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6, etc" and his "I aint go no worries" after winning the championship and then bailing after he mentally checked out of the finals vs the Spurs. If we would of won that series he would of still been with the Heat. And the icing on the cake is him trying to say that Basketball players are better athletes than football players because they play both offense and defense - yeah, because you guys play grab ass and don't hit each other lol. He's an example of why kids should have to do a year or two in college before going pro. He's had a few moments where he hasn't looked great I'll admit that but no player is flawless not even Michael Jordan only difference is that Jordan's career is in the past so his failures have been glossed over and all that's left is this aura of invincibility. Also how the hell can you sit there and say that Jordan is twice the competitor of Lebron, you have no idea and ultimately it's an assumption, a very biased assumption. I say biased because right after this comment you critique Lebron's "attitude". "not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4....." that sounds awfully competitive to me. Only Lebron haters have a problem with the whole Miami decision. I'm a Suns fan and ultimately it meant nothing to me other than we weren't getting Lebron. That's just some picky bullshit, get over it, it adds nothing to his legacy and takes nothing away. Desire to win, work ethic, drive, ambition, etc. are all traits that aren't measurable and basically come down to opinion. I could say that Lebron had a much tougher upbringing than Jordan and had to work much harder than Jordan did not just in basketball but off the court as well. One could quantify that as desire, ambition, etc. but I won't because it's just silly nonsense to bring in a debate about who's better at basketball. There are countless athletes that work extremely hard but I'm not gonna say that anyone is better than another in any of those areas because like I said it's not measurable and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I know what it takes to be an athlete of that caliber, that would be silly. Most of your arguments have ultimately come down to some First Take, Stephen A smith and skip bayless type of shit. Desire, killer instinct, clutchness, it's all a way for you to bring Lebron down since you don't like that he left your team because with real stats and objective analysis you know Lebron and Jordan aren't very far off and by the time Lebron retires it could be even or he may even surpass him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce7 Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 That's a nice deal for the Celtics. It must mean that they are sold on Isiah Thomas as the centerpiece. They'll get a better fit for their team at #3 and pick up a high pick a year or two later. Sixers must be sold on Fultz as an elite PG. Looks like they are finally done with the rebuild. Time too let the kids play and hope they get good fast enough to contend before they start leaving. I think they'll stick with Thomas until they find someone they really like. Thomas isn't bad, but I don't think he will be the long term guy at PG in Boston. On another note, as a Pacers fan, this whole Paul George thing frustrates the hell out of me. I would have liked to see him stay, but now that he has announced his "intentions", there is no way they can hold on to him. Trade him and get as much value as possible in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted June 20, 2017 Report Share Posted June 20, 2017 He's had a few moments where he hasn't looked great I'll admit that but no player is flawless not even Michael Jordan only difference is that Jordan's career is in the past so his failures have been glossed over and all that's left is this aura of invincibility. Also how the hell can you sit there and say that Jordan is twice the competitor of Lebron, you have no idea and ultimately it's an assumption, a very biased assumption. I say biased because right after this comment you critique Lebron's "attitude". "not 1 not 2 not 3 not 4....." that sounds awfully competitive to me. Only Lebron haters have a problem with the whole Miami decision. I'm a Suns fan and ultimately it meant nothing to me other than we weren't getting Lebron. That's just some picky bullshit, get over it, it adds nothing to his legacy and takes nothing away. Desire to win, work ethic, drive, ambition, etc. are all traits that aren't measurable and basically come down to opinion. I could say that Lebron had a much tougher upbringing than Jordan and had to work much harder than Jordan did not just in basketball but off the court as well. One could quantify that as desire, ambition, etc. but I won't because it's just silly nonsense to bring in a debate about who's better at basketball. There are countless athletes that work extremely hard but I'm not gonna say that anyone is better than another in any of those areas because like I said it's not measurable and I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like I know what it takes to be an athlete of that caliber, that would be silly. "Not 1, not 2, not 3, etc" - that's not competitive. That's ego thinking championships would come easy. Adversity reveals character. He was quick to abandon ship. Regardless of what you think, this is an unbiased sentiment. You can ask (or google and read/watch) every basketball coach or player that's been around and it's a consensus MJ's work ethic and competitiveness was second to none. Steve Kerr is a good start. I never questioned Lebron's drive, ambition, work ethic, etc. I was replying to a comment and simply stating that MJ and Jerry Rice were in league's of their own, and physical traits or talent, can be defeated by those type of intangibles. Jerry specifically wasn't the fastest or most physically gifted guy, but he was probably the hardest working and one of the most competitive. Also everybody saying MJ played weaker competition... Lebron plays in the Eastern Conference... correct me if I'm wrong... but aren't all the championship contenders in the West? You can make a run at the playoffs in the East with a losing record. Hell, I think Miami did a couple years ago lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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