IRON MAN boxing tournament

[soyster89]

14 hours ago, Columbo said:

There's a book by Norman Mailer (great writer) called "The Fight". He had access to both training camps before/after/during the Ali-Foreman "Rumble in the jungle". It's 30 years since I read it, but I think his conclusion, as someone actually there, was that Ali won that fight before it even began by winning over the locals. He made himself the hero and Foreman the Baddie. He got the whole nation on his side, and before/after/during the fight, Foreman was disadvantaged. The crowd on the night were constantly singing "Ali - Kill him". It was all you could hear.

My veiw on Ali ias that he is one of the greatest. I just always felt that, given different twists of fate, it could easily have been Frazier, Foreman, or even Norton. I think it was undeniably the best era of HW boxing and whoever came out tops was going to be considered a legend. Nothing ever seemed to go wrong for Ali.

But you've got to hand it to him. He used psychology, PR, dancing, punching.. Whatever worked. And he sure could box. I just wish you could run the history 50 times and see if we lived through a freak 1-in-50 event, or if Ali really woud have won every time. Do you see what I mean?

I watched a documentary about the fight and that stated basically the same thing. Ali was their hero. I also watched an interview with Foreman talking about that fight a few years back. He said he'd hit Ali as hard as he could in the corner early in the fight, and Ali said "Is that all you got George?" and Foreman said he thought to himself, "Yep, that's about it." hahaha - You have to love George and his honesty. 

[Skuzbukit]

There's a great doc I found on Youtube about Foreman.

 

[Columbo]

1 hour ago, Skuzbukit said:

There's a great doc I found on Youtube about Foreman.

Enjoyed that, thanks. I learned a bit from that and understand a little more about why he retired without fighting Ali again. You know someone has really lost their direction when they need to "find God" to get their head together. He just needed to be himself.

I don't think many would have the courage he showed in his comeback. I followed that in real time and he was inspirational. Although he lost to Holyfield, Morrison and Briggs, he did enough to prove he would have slaughtered them in his prime.

I think this, well, Holyfield fight at least, was some of the best evidence that Ali/Foreman/Frazier/etc was the Golden Age.

I never boxed, so I just have armchair opinions, but if I had to choose the GOAT, I'd say Lewis. I think he could have come out winner in any era. If I had to choose the fighter I'd want to watch, it would be Foreman all day.

Side note - The bit with Foreman picking up a cow made me laugh. I had one exceptionally large friend back in the day, who used to pick up motorcycles like that as a sort-of party trick lol. (Foreman wins though. According to Google, cow is 800-2000 lbs, motorcycle is 300-500 lbs).

[Columbo]

Non-British fight fans. Just curious.. Did you ever see this fight?

Henry Cooper vs Cassius Clay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hwn2mqNI1I

[The1rstSaint]

Nice previews @Columbo

[The1rstSaint]

On 5/18/2023 at 9:27 PM, Columbo said:

George Foreman         Tyson Fury     

vs

George Foreman is a bully. A big brute who can't box. He dodged me his whole career. He is so overrated! His punches are predictable. They're gonna hurt, but a great fighter like me, would dance all around, making him miss. Ali tried that in their fight, but Ali didn't have the skill I have, so he gave up and sat on the ropes. Luckily for him, George is stupid and tired himself out anyway and got KO'd. Later, Ali pretended that the whole tactic was deliberate. Yeah, right. If George hadn't always ducked me, I would have done the job properly.

His 'George Foreman Grill' is overrated too. I could have designed it better. If it's so healthy, why's he so fat?

 

Tyson punches hard, and no fighter wants to be hit by him. He often feints, and opponents can find it hard to get into the rhythm they want to be in. In fact he is quite unpredictable generally. You need to be a real master of the game, like me, to keep concentration and avoid getting hurt. I could beat him of course with some of my trademark Jab, jab, jab, BOOM! 

Tyson isn't as smart as me, but he's smart enough to beat lumbering George. Larry says Fury wins by KO.

 

Larry

"Larry you were the one dodging me and you know it, you old pot belly snail. Let's fight now, I'm gonna rename you George too after I Knock you out."

[soyster89]

8 hours ago, Skuzbukit said:

There's a great doc I found on Youtube about Foreman.

 

That was a great vid. Thanks for sharing. 

[soyster89]

6 hours ago, Columbo said:

I think this, well, Holyfield fight at least, was some of the best evidence that Ali/Foreman/Frazier/etc was the Golden Age.

I never boxed, so I just have armchair opinions, but if I had to choose the GOAT, I'd say Lewis. I think he could have come out winner in any era. If I had to choose the fighter I'd want to watch, it would be Foreman all day.

Agree that era was the golden age of boxing. I never boxed either, and while I feel Lewis is right up there for GOAT, other fighters nearly unanimously say Ali is the GOAT. I have a hard time arguing with pro fighters. I think Tyson put it best when he said Ali took people into deep water and was willing to die for the sport, and you cannot beat that. 

5 hours ago, Columbo said:

Non-British fight fans. Just curious.. Did you ever see this fight?

Henry Cooper vs Cassius Clay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hwn2mqNI1I

I'd heard of Cooper, but I don't know if I'd watched that fight before. Thanks for the share. Cooper took it right at Ali. He wasn't afraid of him, that's for sure.  

[Skuzbukit]

Cooper was a great boxer who had a glaring weakness in that he got cut very easily, a combination of having prominent facial bone structure and low body fat, so his skin was over sharper bones than most and then it had less fat to pad it against injury, he could have benefitted hugely from carrying a bit more body fat.

If not for his weakness to cuts I think he would have been world Champion.

[soyster89]

That cut in the Ali fight was nasty. 

[Ibearagimov]

Under 10 days now I hope training is going well for everyone!

[Columbo]

Dangerous Bets have the event covered!   Event Name : IRON MAN BOXING 1st Round City : New York Date : 03 Jun 2023 Bet On Odds Fighter A   Fighter B Odds Bet On            -111 Nikolai Valuev v Lennox Lewis -130   -104 Sonny Liston v Muhammad Ali -138   -111 George Foreman v Tyson Fury -130   +108 Vitali Klitschko v Joe Louis -156   +117 Evander Holyfield v Jack Dempsey -170   -199 John Arthur Johnson v Rocky Marciano +135   -102 Gene Tunney v Wladimir Klitschko -141   +104 Joe Frazier v Mike Tyson -150

[Columbo]

Reminder!

No kicks, no clinching!

Doing so will get you disqualified.

Good luck!

[Ibearagimov]

Finally time in under 24 hours and thank you for the reminder it is a worry that we will see some accidental clinches but hopefully not. 

Best night of boxing in Tycoon history!

[Columbo]

5 hours ago, Ibearagimov said:

.... it is a worry that we will see some accidental clinches but hopefully not.

I think I heard somewhere once that SHIG should also be turned off (go completely 100% follow orders) to avoid anything 'accidental' but I'm unsure if this is true. I'm gonna do it though, just in case. Don't want to be disqualified from my own tourney!!

[soyster89]

Just curious why clinch isn't allowed? Clinching is a big aspect of boxing. 

[Skuzbukit]

1 hour ago, soyster89 said:

Just curious why clinch isn't allowed? Clinching is a big aspect of boxing. 

Since there is no "boxing" ruleset in MMAtycoon then overly long clinches wouldn't get broken up by a ref like they would in Boxing.

In this game clinching is not "Boxing clinching" which is mostly defensive & used to recover from being dazed, break combos, interrupt timing, create pressure or lean on an opponent to drain their energy. MMAtycoon Clinching is Muay Thai, which can be defensive like boxing but can also be highly offensive - attacking from within the clinch with knees & elbows as well as punches.

Punching while clinched is actually illegal in Boxing & also under some Kickboxing rules, it's why it is termed "dirty boxing".

Sure you can slider your way to only using clinch for control but if you want a boxing heavy approach you pretty much need to rule it out or you'd be likely to see entire matches held inside the clinch which would defeat the purpose of a boxing tournament.

[soyster89]

I disagree with you to a point. I understand the difference of MMA and Boxing clinch, but I didn't think the flavor text of the current fight engine included things like holding and hitting. If it does, then I agree. From my memory (as bad as it is), the tycoon fight engine breaks up grabbing (stalling) as they do in boxing. If fighters are punching in a "clinch", or in other words while "in close", it's allowed to continue. That's the same as it is in boxing, as long as you don't allow knee/elbow sliders. 

Regardless, we've removed clinch so it's a non-topic, I was just curious more than anything.

[Ibearagimov]

Clinching is somewhat frowned upon in boxing just last week now former world champion Okolie lost multiple points for doing it excessively and in MMA Tycoon there is not point deductions.

It can be effective but this way we get the see best pure boxer, also in MMA Tycoon I have never seen a ref break clinch for stalling so if it does happen it is rare whereas in boxing after just few seconds a ref would intervene.

 

[Ibearagimov]

Valuev lost but had a lot of fun in the buildup, best of luck to everyone advancing!

 

 

 

[Ibearagimov]

Ali Vs Tyson next too!

[Skuzbukit]

Tyson Fury: Congratulations to Big George, I almost had him out of there early on but he showed some grit & composed himself, I took it to him but he proved more elusive than I expected, he's not as dumb as he looks it would seem.

I probably over-estimated how much combinations would work in this bout but I was looking to be unpredictable so I went for a very mixed-strikes approach, would probably have done better with more single power-punches.

Well done George & good luck in your next fight, you were a great opponent, a true fighting man, God bless you.

[Daudy]

5 hours ago, Ibearagimov said:

Clinching is somewhat frowned upon in boxing just last week now former world champion Okolie lost multiple points for doing it excessively and in MMA Tycoon there is not point deductions.

It can be effective but this way we get the see best pure boxer, also in MMA Tycoon I have never seen a ref break clinch for stalling so if it does happen it is rare whereas in boxing after just few seconds a ref would intervene.

 

It is possible in tycoon, but very few managers integrate regular stalling in clinches so you don't see it much.

I think three stalls in a row gets it separated - a bit like three successful controls on the ground. I've definitely seen it before, but unfortunately off the top of my head I can't remember any specific examples to link.

[The1rstSaint]

27 minutes ago, Skuzbukit said:

Tyson Fury: Congratulations to Big George, I almost had him out of there early on but he showed some grit & composed himself, I took it to him but he proved more elusive than I expected, he's not as dumb as he looks it would seem.

I probably over-estimated how much combinations would work in this bout but I was looking to be unpredictable so I went for a very mixed-strikes approach, would probably have done better with more single power-punches.

Well done George & good luck in your next fight, you were a great opponent, a true fighting man, God bless you.

George Foreman

"I take a licking and keep on ticking, good fight Tyson. I may look dumb but what you don't know is one day I'm going to make a Fat shedding, Burger Grilling machine that's gonna make me a Ca-Trillionaire."

 

 

[soyster89]

Congrats to the winners! Valuev showed a ton of heart. Knocked down 4 times and got up each time before the final blow turned out the lights.