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New company slots are overpriced


Mikie

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You don't get "charged for the first company".

 

Think about it... If you only look at what the "second" company is, if someone had a gym first then opened a clothing company, it would cost a different amount to someone who had a clothing company first and then a gym second. You have to look at all the companies someone has and work out an average.

 

 

The first company is not costing you VIP days it is merely used in the equation to determine how much the additional company will cost.

Fair enough this makes sense , thank-you for explaining it

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It really amazes me how no matter what is done people still find a reason to whine and complain. If you dont like it, leave end of story. ////

 

Well excuse me Louie for being a paying customer and voicing my opinion.

If you agree with Mike and defend him, that is perfectly fine with me and all the others who do not like this implementation. We do not ask you to shut up right?

People have their right to voice their opinion. If you do not like that, do not read the posts.

 

I am not against the second company slot by any means and actually was the one who asked for it.

However, I do not feel we should keep on paying for that extra slot. A one time payment, like with fighters slots, should do fine.

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Well excuse me Louie for being a paying customer and voicing my opinion.

If you agree with Mike and defend him, that is perfectly fine with me and all the others who do not like this implementation. We do not ask you to shut up right?

People have their right to voice their opinion. If you do not like that, do not read the posts.

 

I am not against the second company slot by any means and actually was the one who asked for it.

However, I do not feel we should keep on paying for that extra slot. A one time payment, like with fighters slots, should do fine.

 

Sums up exactly my thoughts on this. I was hoping for a one time payment also.

 

And it amazes me when people spout the old "if you don't like it then leave" Can you imagine if everyone took that advice?

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Well excuse me Louie for being a paying customer and voicing my opinion.

If you agree with Mike and defend him, that is perfectly fine with me and all the others who do not like this implementation. We do not ask you to shut up right?

People have their right to voice their opinion. If you do not like that, do not read the posts.

 

I am not against the second company slot by any means and actually was the one who asked for it.

However, I do not feel we should keep on paying for that extra slot. A one time payment, like with fighters slots, should do fine.

 

It's not the same as buying another fighter slot. You having another fighter doesn't stop anyone else doing anything... It helps the game by more fighters for orgs, clothing, nutrition, gyms etc.

 

If you buy another company slot, it means someone else probably can't run that type of company in that city.... What do you think you should be paying for that? $10 as a one off payment? To potentially stop a VIP, who will be around for years, being able to run a company viably?

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Overpriced? Nah

 

Additional / Alternative pay system? Maybe

 

I understand Mike's reasoning for why he has some companies affect the VIP cost per week more than others , so would like his thoughts on something else.

 

Sure, in terms of income , Orgs are higher than other companies , and Private Gyms have a substantial benefit to a managers roster. But what about the factor of

 

Higher Profit companies (i.e. Orgs) bring more to the game than the other company types by providing more outlets for Managers to participate in the games primary function and require a LOT more work as a result.

 

I'm on the fence as to whether "Fun and Activity a company brings to the Company" should be a factor in a VIP cost per week , but wanted to pick your brain on it.

 

Overall though , compare the new system of a 2nd company to how it was before. It's now cheaper to do it , you actually have control over said company , and due to VIP Exchange you can literally get away with not even paying IRL money for it. Considering a few years ago people were fine with the idea of Double VIP time cost , I'd say it's not as bad as people are making it out to be.

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It's not the same as buying another fighter slot. You having another fighter doesn't stop anyone else doing anything... It helps the game by more fighters for orgs, clothing, nutrition, gyms etc.

 

If you buy another company slot, it means someone else probably can't run that type of company in that city.... What do you think you should be paying for that? $10 as a one off payment? To potentially stop a VIP, who will be around for years, being able to run a company viably?

 

Thank you for your feedback and I do actually genuinely mean that.

I now at least know why you feel like a constant cost should be attached to a second company.

 

The more fighters that get created, the more orgs that are required. The more orgs that exist, the more diversity and challenges there would be. There would be more specific orgs (ID, KT, grappling) and they would push each other to a higher level.

Also, it would leave more options for lower skilled fighters/managers, as there would be more 'levels' to the org business.

More orgs will also mean more competition to get certain fighters, so the fighters (read 'managers') benefit from those negotiations as well.

In my opinion, more orgs (and fighters, companies,...) mean that we get closer to the name of the game, mma TYCOON.

It gives managers (the option) to try and become a 'TYCOON'.

 

Therefore, I do not see an extra company slot as being anything else than buying fighters slots, so therefore my logic of a one time payment and not constantly draining VIP days. Extra orgs do not block anything, they contribute to the game for all active users.

Looking forward to your (or anyone else their)feedback.

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More fighters => more orgs => more levels of competition. This would logically scale with the number of players. And at some critical mass grappling/KT would also live up again.

 

But more company slots does nothing for that by itself. I think it can have two effects:

  1. Concentrate companies into fewer hands (this is tycooning I guess)
  2. Lead to a higher company to player ratio which also means lower average profit

 

And now I'm just guessing, but if the player base keeps dwindling I think it will be tough to start up new companies and we will see more of #1 where surviving companies are concentrated into the hands of strong/rich managers. If the player base start growing again we would also see more new companies and more diversity in both ownership and competition levels.

 

Probably it will in any case be tough to get into the company business as a new player. Even without money one of the things you used to have going for you was that company slot. Maybe a rich sugar daddy would sponsor your VIP to hold a private gym, an alliance would chip in to get your started with some clothes/laundry/whatever since they all had private gyms already in their slots. Now that slot is practically worthless as it will be cheaper for established players to just open a second company themselves.

 

What we need is more players and faster moving id ranges. But I think the last couple of additions we have seen cater more to already established and active players rather than brining in new or returning ones.

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I've started playing the game myself now I have more time, and I'm trying to do it from the perspective of a semi-new user...

 

The main problem IMO is clearly the lack of public gyms. I have bumped the level of Cozad gyms as a stop gap and I'm training my own fighters in Cozads to see how it goes.

 

Getting the physicals cap in place will help with speed of development. That's nearly done but I need to get the fight engine (and the whole site) over to the new version of php first. That's semi-terrifying to swap the whole site over, as it will probably break stuff. The fight engine needed a huge re-write, which I paid someone to do in December as it was above mine and my programmer's level of understanding. Anyway, I put that on the back burner to get these couple of updates out, before getting back at the boring behind the scenes stuff, which will make people think I'm not doing anything for like 6 weeks probably. :)

 

In general, I also think more gains from fights will help, especially at a lower level. I also think the pay for QFCs needs to increase and the cost of public gyms does need to come down to keep the weekly cost lower.

 

I would like to just give new managers some extra cash too by default but I don't want that exploited by people creating multis just for their cash, for e.g. clothing and nutrition products or joining gyms to not even train and just pay fees.

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I agree the new player experience need some work. Adding some fights to the tutorial like discussed here could be one thing.

 

Assume anything that can be exploited will be. Instead of cash, maybe just give the first fighters created by a new account some free supplements/clothes? But I'm not sure a lack of cash is the real problem for a new player. Either you can afford a private gym or you cannot - whatever you do to bridge that gap short of a complete redesign there will still be a gap.

 

A new player will generally accept starting from the bottom and having to work their way up, earn money etc. I think giving them tools/opportunities and ways in to interact with established players is a better principle than just adding more freebies.

 

Making sure there is always a fight org where they can have some chance of success could also be good.

Maybe promote the alliance concept a bit more, find some way to both develop alliance competition more and encourage alliances to pick up new players. Could benefit both new and old players.

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Well, you need to keep to the ones you can afford and go look for some contracts/sponsorships then :)

 

Personally I found that part real fun in the beginning when you had practically no cash and getting out of cozads into better public gyms was the main motivation. That gives you a sense of progression in a very tangible way which all game design theory say is a good thing for new player retention.

 

But if you want to increase the starting cash maybe doing it as part of the tutorial rewards would be a better way instead of just giving it straight up.

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Yeah, encouraging people into alliances is a good plan.

 

Regarding money, my fighters keep getting booted out of half decent gyms for running out of money, so I do think lack of cash is a problem.

I can hit up some contacts to send them sponsorships :P

 

All jokes aside, it is actually nice to see you trying the user-part of the game out and see what is working and what needs work.

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I have a private gym so can I open another gym, a public one? I wouldn't mind doing that to help out if I can #1 and it wasn't a drain on both VIP and cash. It should cost VIP of course but if it loses money as well it's hard to rationalize. Making public gyms profitable without them overcrowding would go a long way in helping new managers IMO.

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I am more than happy to give Mike a blip on the radar of my income when he is actively working on the game. Especially an update like this. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but i just don't see why they thought this wasn't going to be a constant expense.

 

We need that physical cap (and imo a primary and secondary cap with more secondaries points than what is feasible now and less primary than elite, elite, elite, brown for full capped fighters) but the biggest problem is physicals. Even Romero would be elite everything and superbish cardio.

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Yeah, encouraging people into alliances is a good plan.

 

Regarding money, my fighters keep getting booted out of half decent gyms for running out of money, so I do think lack of cash is a problem.

 

 

Thankfully for the first couple months I started playing some kind managers floated me some cash to keep getting decent training. Just go on the forum and ask for some financial help lol

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We need that physical cap (and imo a primary and secondary cap with more secondaries points than what is feasible now and less primary than elite, elite, elite, brown for full capped fighters) but the biggest problem is physicals. Even Romero would be elite everything and superbish cardio.

 

Among all the things that need to get done, playing around with physical cap's is by far not the priority. This is a debatable feature if anything else and not one that really improves. Any changes added need to be 100% either a clear un-debatable improvement (even if they are small ones) or improving the finances or adding more players.

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I would wager a guess that more managers would be willing to open a public gym if they new there could be profit involved..I mean, most of the experienced managers wouldn't want to open a gym with a bunch of proficient coaches and try to get 7+ fighters per coach to make a profit..we would all want a number of elite coaches with the max number of fighters to provide actual gain..so if a fighter could get max gain from have say 2 fighters and then maybe say 3 to 5 fighters would see a 10% decrease and 6 to 10 would be like 20% and anything over 10 would be like 25/30% decrease...then we could say alright I can make good profit with X amount of coaches and a max of 4 fighters per coach, so I cap my capacity at 40 fighters and everyone will get anywhere from max to 10% less training gains.....maybe a new supplement gets introduced that could be used that could potentially lower that 10% loss based on the quality...maybe 160q would take it from 10% to 5% loss...Now you've entered something new to drive in game cash, help with increasing training gains, make gyms profitable and help managers get good training for fighters..

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@MikeTycoon As said before there needs to be a training cap so that people don't overload sessions, that is the reason why us hardcore fans of MMA Tycoon are using private gyms because we are tired of dumbasses that will have 4+ fighters in a session make it so that everyone's training is ineffective. Having top fighters in the game that become elite fighters is something that many new players strive for to be one of the best manages of the game. So I wouldn't say that private gyms don't add value to the game. It keeps those at the bottom something to strive for (me included as a mid tier player). It is one of the only reasons I keep coming back each day. Also having a private gym and being able to train anything at anytime prevents depops which will be even more of a problem when you try to put a physical skills cap...... I think that extra VIP costs should be cut half across the board. Best not piss of the hardcore VIP fan base and the stop paying because they think its price gouging. We are reason why the game is still alive because without us= no game. Also if there are caps on public gyms to make them not have overloaded sessions,then the gap between private and public projects can even the playing field. :showoff:

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I am more than happy to give Mike a blip on the radar of my income when he is actively working on the game. Especially an update like this. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but i just don't see why they thought this wasn't going to be a constant expense.

 

We need that physical cap (and imo a primary and secondary cap with more secondaries points than what is feasible now and less primary than elite, elite, elite, brown for full capped fighters) but the biggest problem is physicals. Even Romero would be elite everything and superbish cardio.

What exactly does a physical cap do to the game exactly? If it increases competitiveness of the game based on fighter styles it should be introduced. If it doesn't it is just another error that we have to worry about.

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What exactly does a physical cap do to the game exactly? If it increases competitiveness of the game based on fighter styles it should be introduced. If it doesn't it is just another error that we have to worry about.

 

The idea is that by limiting the amount of physical points, people will choose to create a variety of builds, such as some with more cardio, some with more strength etc etc.

I worry that after a short(?) while people will figure out the best cookie cutter build for a striker, for a clincher, for a grappler and so on. And then the much yearned for variety will be lost again.

But for a brief while it’ll be interesting I guess!

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