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In a modern moral wealthy society no one should be to poor to live.



Healthcare should be a human right.



Ever child should have the option to go to collage or a trade school.



No one should be homeless.







I agree, do you?






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I'll ask a question and present a scenario and see if you still feel that away, assuming you mean that if people don't have the money for those items they will be provided for them by someone (most likely the government).

 

If everyone that needed these items along with basic items needed to live and they all stopped working and/or trying and ONLY YOU was left to pay the bills or taxes to provide this stuff. Would you still feel the same way and give all your money away?

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In a modern moral wealthy society no one should be to poor to live.

Healthcare should be a human right.

Ever child should have the option to go to collage or a trade school.

No one should be homeless.

Well on first one you think I would be for since I am dirt poor and don't make it sometimes month to month living on fixed income (disability due to illegal aliens actions) but I am not. But if your looking to help I can send you my paypal addy -- Being poor sucks and blows goats but it appears that every Socialist country has very very poor people along with still wealthy people so that's proven it doesn't work

 

 

Healthcare - Yea I think every country should have some sort of healthcare coverage for it's OWN citizens. Now big question is can it work, no one has shown a plan or path to something that works here in USA but asking my overall opinion yes I feel something could be done

 

Education - Honestly most do and can if they choose too and WORK at it. -- Can't wait to see how many waste years trying to be a doctor when they can't even flip a burger but hey it's free

 

Homeless - I agree should be no homeless -- so you should agree that if you have millions of homeless it's pretty crazy to ignore them and invite thousands upon thousands of other homeless hungry when you already have millions in your own country already

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Well on first one you think I would be for since I am dirt poor and don't make it sometimes month to month living on fixed income (disability due to illegal aliens actions) but I am not. But if your looking to help I can send you my paypal addy -- Being poor sucks and blows goats but it appears that every Socialist country has very very poor people along with still wealthy people so that's proven it doesn't work

 

 

Healthcare - Yea I think every country should have some sort of healthcare coverage for it's OWN citizens. Now big question is can it work, no one has shown a plan or path to something that works here in USA but asking my overall opinion yes I feel something could be done

 

Education - Honestly most do and can if they choose too and WORK at it. -- Can't wait to see how many waste years trying to be a doctor when they can't even flip a burger but hey it's free

 

Homeless - I agree should be no homeless -- so you should agree that if you have millions of homeless it's pretty crazy to ignore them and invite thousands upon thousands of other homeless hungry when you already have millions in your own country already

 

To clarify my earlier post. I do believe that poverty needs to be checked. I do not know how to do that since "wealth redistribution" is not a thing I am in support of. One of the things I think could help with this is rather to put greater restrictions on corporations and other large companies to prevent the naked greed that they display in paying minimum wage to their employees while paying disgusting wages and "bonuses" to their upper management who essentially do nothing, or worse are, downright incompetent and squander company resources but due to their "golden parachute" they get paid millions of dollars for their ineptitude.

 

Healthcare - It is disgusting that we continue to allow healthcare to be made into a for profit business rather than a public service. It is also disgusting that politicians on both sides of the political divide consider insurance and health care to be the same thing. Under no circumstances can an insurance company serve two masters. Those masters being, profit motive and public health. When profit is involved it will, invariably, win out as the true master and we have the situation that we currently have in the US. Exorbitant prices for medical services and pharmaceuticals. Not sure how to handle the pharmaceuticals aspect, but the healthcare costs part is really simple. Buy all the hospitals and operate them as government institutions rather than as for profit private businesses. Still charge for the services, but subsidize the hospitals and implement a system that does not reward stupidity. For instance, drug abusers that OD and land their sorry carcasses in the hospital should not be fixed up and dropped back on the street again so they can repeat the process over and over again until they die. They should be put into drug rehabilitation programs (willing or otherwise) to get them off the drugs and maybe even make them into productive citizens. This is certainly a socialist idea, but one that fits in precisely with the function of government. Which is to provide infrastructure and services to the community that cannot be provided for by the individuals.

 

Education - The idea of free education is great and many other countries implement this without having a detrimental hemorrhaging of cash, unlike with health care. A higher educated populace is greatly enhanced by the education and they therefore have greater earning potential which translates directly to more revenue to the government. Now, obviously I do not feel that some idiot that cannot decide what he wants to major in or keeps failing should not keep getting free government funded education. There needs to be regulations in place. For instance, that same system that is in place for students right now that are receiving government assistance. They, cannot fail classes without being placed on academic probation. They must then improve their GPA or lose their government subsidy and be booted out of school. There would need to be further checks against abuse implemented as well, but this one is not a terrible idea. The US is currently in dead last place among the developed nations in Education and that needs to be reversed. Doctors, and Scientists alike are lamenting the fact that they cannot replenish their number from among American students because they are just fucking stupid. Our education system sucks and it will kill us faster than any foreign invader if we do not correct this immediately. It is disgraceful, the state out education is in.

 

PBR nailed this one. Build the fucking wall! We do not need more immigrants without out specialized skills coming to this country. jobs are already hard enough to find without the inclusion of millions of unskilled foreigners flooding the market and not being employed and then resorting to our public assistance programs funded by the tax payers.

 

No one thing will fix all that is wrong with this world, but we do need to start addressing these issues or we will have a catastrophe facing us in the not so distant future.

 

So, in closing, I am saying that I agree with what Steel Penn said in his initial post. It is the methods that we utilize to get there that I may or may not agree with. I tend towards a more conservative approach to things and I do not like tax and spend liberals throwing money as one social service or the other and having that money come from the already overtaxed middle class.

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So, in closing, I am saying that I agree with what Steel Penn said in his initial post. It is the methods that we utilize to get there that I may or may not agree with. I tend towards a more conservative approach to things and I do not like tax and spend liberals throwing money as one social service or the other and having that money come from the already overtaxed middle class.

Well said i feel the same -- aoc is whacked out on her plans though -- you jump up and start taxing folks that are barely making it right now an additional 40 to 50 percent they will stop working and live of government like jlp mentions -- hell why work your ass off if your not going to get ahead

 

 

 

edited: one idea to pay for most if not all of this and make it happen is to stop so much foreign aid -- that would pay for everything listed and so much more

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Well said i feel the same -- aoc is whacked out on her plans though -- you jump up and start taxing folks that are barely making it right now an additional 40 to 50 percent they will stop working and live of government like jlp mentions -- hell why work your ass off if your not going to get ahead

 

 

 

edited: one idea to pay for most if not all of this and make it happen is to stop so much foreign aid -- that would pay for everything listed and so much more

You can make that tax hike to 40 or 50% if you give free education and healthcare in return. Even then, that's not the plan, every democratic socialist country works with a layered plan, where once you start earning more, your tax goes up over that amount. And like I said before, compared to other countries the US is hardly pulling it's weight on foreign aid per GNI.

 

For an idea how the tax brackets work in Western Europe:

Sweden

0% from 0 kronor to 18,800 kronor

Circa 32% (ca. 11% county and 20% municipality tax which is the Swedish average): from 18,800 kronor to 468,700 kronor

32% + 20%: from 468,700 kronor to 675,700 kronor

32% + 25%: above 675,700 kronor

 

Netherlands:

For the part of income up to 18,218: 2.3%; tax on 18,218 is 419

For the part of income between 18,219 and 32,738: 10.8%; tax on 14,520 is 1,568

For the part of income between 32,739 and 54,367: 42%; tax on 21,629 is 9,084

On all income over 54,367: 52%

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About Sweden, those percentages are what you pay in tax on the amount you receive from the employer. The employer have already paid a similar amount to the state so you receive less than one third of the gross amount you cost the employer. Don't know how that stacks up against other countries except that we are certainly on the socialist side of the scale.

 

Then you have other various small taxes, mandatory fees (for all practical purposes taxes), property tax, VAT, vehicle tax, company tax. The new tax specifically for supporting the state TV/radio has an income weighting of it's own. Retirees are taxed on their pension payments. All this extra doesn't do much on the whole I guess, but to compare total tax pressure I think you need to look at more than income tax.

 

Healthcare is (mostly) free except dental. Education is free. Not only that, you get paid to study (not like a full salary but goes some way). Would surprise me if we are not #1 in the world on educating people in ridiculous pseudo-science things or studies that are more like pursuing your hobbies btw. At the same time we are not educating enough doctors to fill the needs, or if we do they go work for a better salary in Norway after completing their free education in Sweden.

 

I've heard Sweden is one of the most "equal" countries in the world in wealth distribution, but we still got homeless people. Examples of all that other stuff from the first post going on as well. Admittedly not much, a lot of places in the world are far worse off than Sweden. But examples of people not receiving healthcare because there is just not enough capacity are likely more than you would think. Like people dying waiting for surgery for months or years.. but sure if you do get it it's free.

 

Btw, all that layered taxing only applies to normal people. If you are super-rich like the IKEA founder you have your legal residence in Switzerland. He just moved back to Sweden shortly before his death and after he had given away all his company shares etc to his sons.. which reminds me, there is also a tax on gifts/inheritance, yes you get the picture.

 

Statements from the first post sounds nice, but seems a bit pointless to just throw it out like that. Sure the swedish model of democratic socialism has worked well in the past and produced excellent governmental services, but I'm not so sure it will survive this new thing of people moving across borders as easily as they used to move house within the country. The current trend seems to be well educated economically strong people leaving and non-educated poor people coming.

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just my take

 

1) Homeless is a major problem. I have a friend that is one of the major supporters of helping the homeless in St Pete. He had a building in St Pete did that concerts that benefited the homeless. But the city came down and said that he was a Social Service not a Church because a church doesn't do what he was doing-feeding, clothing, sheltering the homeless (which is opposite of what the Bible says) and forced him to leave the building. Basically the city wanted to clean up the area because of The Rays. Out of spite he started feeding the homeless right across the street from City Hall. But even here, when I lived out here up to 1994, I never saw any homeless people. I've been back for four years and I've seen them camped out in the woods by my house or sleeping outside my Wal-Mart.

 

2) Healthcare, I've never had to pay the fine on ACA. When I was unemployed, I got a pass and code to enter. Since I've had my current job, I have company insurance. But my whole thing is I only have it, so I don't pay the fine. I never use it, I'd rather not have it. Why fine me if I don't have something I don't want. And how does free healthcare work in Canada?

 

3) College, I'm not sure if free school is feasible here and worth it anyway. I have two A.S. Degrees but I work at Wal-Mart. Companies want B.S. Degrees with seven years of documented work experience to make a dollar more an hour than I make at Wal-Mart.

 

4) Government. I'd rather keep my money and abolish the IRS. I am all for limiting the federal government as a whole and giving more power to state governments. I'm also for term limits. If the President only gets two terms why do people in congress get unlimited terms until they retire or die. Also, I think if you run for President, you shouldn't be able to go to your previous job back (seat on congress) if you fail to get elected. If I quit Wal-Mart to run for President, do you think they'll give me my job back when I don't get elected?

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And like I said before, compared to other countries the US is hardly pulling it's weight on foreign aid per GNI.

 

 

 

Well for the last few years US has averaged 40 billion a year in foreign aid -- who cares if you say were hardly pulling our on weight when i promise no other country even come close to foreign aid we give away -- america first fix our own country then worry on others

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Well for the last few years US has averaged 40 billion a year in foreign aid -- who cares if you say were hardly pulling our on weight when i promise no other country even come close to foreign aid we give away -- america first fix our own country then worry on others

Compared with the amount of inhabitants, nearly every developed country blasts past you. Stop this idea y'all are some kind of saints.
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Well for the last few years US has averaged 40 billion a year in foreign aid -- who cares if you say were hardly pulling our on weight when i promise no other country even come close to foreign aid we give away -- america first fix our own country then worry on others

Here, look who's beating you all. Foreign aid percentage of Gross National Income:

Sweden 1.40%

Qatar 1.24

UAE 1.09%

Norway 1.05%

Luxembourg 0.93%

Denmark 0.85%

Netherlands 0.76%

United Kingdom 0.71%

Finland 0.56%

Turkey 0.54

Switzerland 0.52%

Germany 0.52%

Belgium 0.42%

France 0.37%

Ireland 0.36%

China 0.348

Austria 0.32%

Canada 0.28%

New Zealand 0.27%

Australia 0.27%

Iceland 0.24%

Japan 0.22%

Italy 0.21%

United States 0.17%

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Here, look who's beating you all. Foreign aid percentage of Gross National Income:

Sweden 1.40%

Qatar 1.24

UAE 1.09%

Norway 1.05%

Luxembourg 0.93%

Denmark 0.85%

Netherlands 0.76%

United Kingdom 0.71%

Finland 0.56%

Turkey 0.54

Switzerland 0.52%

Germany 0.52%

Belgium 0.42%

France 0.37%

Ireland 0.36%

China 0.348

Austria 0.32%

Canada 0.28%

New Zealand 0.27%

Australia 0.27%

Iceland 0.24%

Japan 0.22%

Italy 0.21%

United States 0.17%

 

you know if it were up to me those numbers would be way way less so keep on crying about that all you want -- dont care bottom line is total money given and we blow everyone away by multi billions -- i dont care if we were ranked dead last we still give away too much when our own country is in need -- i bet those other countries dont have the immigration problems we have nor the burden of taking care of them -- at this point i'm sorry but i don't care about other countries period when our own is going down the drain cause of others problems

 

over 40 billion went to other countries last year -- everyone cries we have shit healthcare we have homeless and poor we dont take care of -- thats true cause we take care of others first -- got that to 20 billion and we have full paid healthcare for all citizens and major help in homeless, then our country gets better by providing healthcare and homes for its own citizens instead of providing it for other countries citizens -- its stupid no other country would do it, all other countries put their citizens first by providing healthcare and for poor then you see what you got left to help other countries -- keep draining and soon will not be america to provide that 40 billion anymore or unpaid protection

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you know if it were up to me those numbers would be way way less so keep on crying about that all you want -- dont care bottom line is total money given and we blow everyone away by multi billions -- i dont care if we were ranked dead last we still give away too much when our own country is in need -- i bet those other countries dont have the immigration problems we have nor the burden of taking care of them -- at this point i'm sorry but i don't care about other countries period when our own is going down the drain cause of others problems

 

over 40 billion went to other countries last year -- everyone cries we have shit healthcare we have homeless and poor we dont take care of -- thats true cause we take care of others first -- got that to 20 billion and we have full paid healthcare for all citizens and major help in homeless, then our country gets better by providing healthcare and homes for its own citizens instead of providing it for other countries citizens -- its stupid no other country would do it, all other countries put their citizens first by providing healthcare and for poor then you see what you got left to help other countries -- keep draining and soon will not be america to provide that 40 billion anymore or unpaid protection

Yet you are a proud voter of the party that votes against any form of healthcare or social security. Your military spending is 590 billion, how about you shave something of of that? You have the biggest income discrepancy of any developed country, how about fixing that by proper taxation? Your using foreign aid as an easy fix, while it's only a small number on your entire budget, without addressing any of the systematic issues in the country, issues caused, and kept in place, by the Republican Party since Reagan.

 

Also, if you're trying to state that there are no illegal immigrant crisises in Europe, for Christ sake, read a book. Italy, Greece, Spain, the Balkan countries all have plenty of struggle with it.

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Yet you are a proud voter of the party that votes against any form of healthcare or social security. Your military spending is 590 billion, how about you shave something of of that?

 

military budget helps us build, improve and employee our military which protects us (and most of the world) it's not totally wasted like giving away all that foreign aid and nothing in return --- so dems are for social security, lmao -- under obama for 8 yrs social security benefits living wage increase was halted -- they got a living wage increase 2 times in 8 yrs when was given yearly before and yearly since

 

 

edited: lets see dems pulled money from ss to fund the healthcare plan for all but then fines the poor folks who cant afford the premiums plans -- lmao -- yea thats worrying about social security and the poor people

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(disability due to illegal aliens actions)

 

What happened? Like you got jumped and are on disability? I sense a serious dislike for the migrants. You can get jumped by anyone these days.

 

 

well an illegal alien that had done been deported 3 other times, charged twice with dwi was once again here illegally and driving drunk again. he ran a stop sign hitting me and killing 3 people. only ones lived were me and him and he only lived cause he got ejected or else he would of died. short end of the story with all his past crimes and being 3rd dwi charge 4th time here illegal was doing over 75mph in a 30mph area -- he got 2 yrs for these crimes, its silly i wasn't even out of the hospital and walking right and he is free man sent back to mexico a 4th time free to come back --------- when asked the da why only 2 yrs and what kind of justice is that, her words is he is nothing but a poor illegal alien what do you want --- i want him to pay for his crimes and not get off with a slap on the wrist --- kate's law was a big bill to me they get off so easy with crimes

 

 

edited: i broke my neck, back, entire left rib cage and lost left lung in coma for months -- left me unable to work and lost everything i had cause of it so yea there is bad feelings there but for the reasons i stated they get treated like the victims almost and get no punishment for their crimes

 

edited 2: not to mention female friend i knew that was stabbed to death trying to defend her baby in the car from a couple illegal aliens car jacking her -- they both fled to back to mexico to avoid prison, they caught one before he got there, the one who stabbed her made it to mexico where they wont do anything because texas has death penalty so they will not hold him or send him back to face charges -- both of them went on a day long crime spree robbing people and stores

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Well for the last few years US has averaged 40 billion a year in foreign aid -- who cares if you say were hardly pulling our on weight when i promise no other country even come close to foreign aid we give away -- america first fix our own country then worry on others

 

Precisely.

 

Yet you are a proud voter of the party that votes against any form of healthcare or social security. Your military spending is 590 billion, how about you shave something of of that? You have the biggest income discrepancy of any developed country, how about fixing that by proper taxation? Your using foreign aid as an easy fix, while it's only a small number on your entire budget, without addressing any of the systematic issues in the country, issues caused, and kept in place, by the Republican Party since Reagan.

 

Also, if you're trying to state that there are no illegal immigrant crisises in Europe, for Christ sake, read a book. Italy, Greece, Spain, the Balkan countries all have plenty of struggle with it.

 

The things you post here are largely true so I am not going to nitpick, but I will state that the Defense Budget is an absolute necessity and I would see it go even higher. $40 billion dollars is a huge amount of money, and something $3-5 billion of that goes to Israel so they can spend it on killing Palestinians, which causes them to blow shit up in our country. While not condones behavior, I can at least understand their frustration with regards to seeing it as the US buying the Israeli's military for them. I say fuck all of the other countries and just spend that $40 Billion dollars domestically and put some oversight in place to regulate and hopefully severely curtail graft in our spending. That should free up tons more money. I do believe that the tax laws in this country need serious overhauling as well.

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Precisely.

 

 

The things you post here are largely true so I am not going to nitpick, but I will state that the Defense Budget is an absolute necessity and I would see it go even higher. $40 billion dollars is a huge amount of money, and something $3-5 billion of that goes to Israel so they can spend it on killing Palestinians, which causes them to blow shit up in our country. While not condones behavior, I can at least understand their frustration with regards to seeing it as the US buying the Israeli's military for them. I say fuck all of the other countries and just spend that $40 Billion dollars domestically and put some oversight in place to regulate and hopefully severely curtail graft in our spending. That should free up tons more money. I do believe that the tax laws in this country need serious overhauling as well.

A defense budget is an absolute necessity. The current funding for the military is outrageously high though. The only two countries that spend more pro capita are Saoedi Arabia and Israel.
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