Force Multi-Manager Gyms

[Kragarth]

As a newbie who read an old and outdated forum post about the plethora of good, cheap non-Cozad's gyms available, it is highly discouraging to discover that most gyms in this game are now privately run for the exclusive use of the owner's own fighters. Nine of the top 10 managers by hype all appear to run such gyms.

 

The game needs to encourage gyms to be more open and to reduce the advantage of privately owned gyms. If you want new players who have read the guide (and therefore understand Cozad's sucks) to stay, there needs to be more gyms for them to join.

 

My suggestion is to limit the number and/or quality of coaches to the number of different managers that use a gym. Option #1 is the direct way: max total coaches = # of managers, so a gym with only one manager's fighters can only hire 1 coach, while a gym with 3 managers can hire 3 coaches.

 

Option # 2 is more fun but takes more design effort. It is to add a hype rating to gym and a hype cost to coaches. For example, an elite coach might require 10 hype. Thus, a gym with 20 hype can hire two elites. Hype increases based upon the number of managers, the hype of those managers, and the hype of the fighters training there.

[Guest]

the reason there are not more public gyms is its not easy to operate a profitable gym. most gyms lose money.

[Kragarth]

the reason there are not more public gyms is its not easy to operate a profitable gym. most gyms lose money.

 

My idea would help with that problem too. Eliminate the incentive for exclusive single manager gyms and those managers will look to join other managers' gyms, increasing demand and making gyms more profitable.

[TMT]

A simple fix in my opinion would to increase the perfect coach fighter ratio from 2:1 to maybe 10:1. Then more managers/gyms would be willing to share their gyms because they would still fill confident that their fighter isn't missing out on gains. As well as earn money in the process. Just my opinion

[Kragarth]

A simple fix in my opinion would to increase the perfect coach fighter ratio from 2:1 to maybe 10:1. Then more managers/gyms would be willing to share their gyms because they would still fill confident that their fighter isn't missing out on gains. As well as earn money in the process. Just my opinion

 

I thought of that as an option. My thought is that the options I suggested encourage a little more interaction. The best gyms will have managers that coordinate their training schedules to maximize training efficiency. Simply making it easier to be efficient doesn't reward those managers willing to put in that extra effort. Granted, I could be wrong on that, as my experience with the strategy aspects of the game is obviously minimal.

[KingEpicity]

Nothing is going to change unless changes are made to make public gyms more profitable and a better fighter;coach ratio for training gains. It's just not worth it.

[BlueFalcon]

Even though I am in an exclusive gym, I like Kragarth's idea. +1

[MichioKaku]

I dont agree at all.

 

Top UFC fighters get 1 on 1 time training. The nobody's starting out are at the strip mall local MMA gym where they crowd people in.

 

The "advantage" of private gyms is that it is realistic to the real world as a sim should be.

 

The fix would be to have more than just AM and PM and have hourly sessions but would likely overload the servers but this would be realistic and allow for more fighters per coach making it so you can turn a profit without having to cram people in at 1k a week.

[Kragarth]

Realistic? Please, link me to a fully equipped and staffed gym that is closed to the public because it operates for the sole purpose of providing 1on1 training to 10 - 20 fighters who are all managed by the same person. Then link me enough to show those types of gyms outnumber open to the public gyms by 10 to 1.

 

Realistic would a public gym where the elite coaches hire themselves out for one on one training but also teach few group classes to fill their time. The public gyms may also rent floor space to ouside trainers.

 

The more realistic approach is to have several managers using the same gym and to coordinate so they each can get a few one on one classes for their fighters.

[Erik]

Great, so with this idea we just have to work as 10 manager units to get decent training.

 

This just fucks people who don't have a lot of friends / alliance mates.

[GBK16]

Like Erik said, this idea just means people in an alliance will just cut costs by all going into the same gyms with no downsides

[Kragarth]

Maybe, but isn't that an improvement?

 

It could also result in multiple alliance gyms. Alliances could run a public recruitment gym to identify new managers they would like in the alliance and then invite those players to the alliance with an incentive of a higher quality gym.

[MichioKaku]

Realistic? Please, link me to a fully equipped and staffed gym that is closed to the public because it operates for the sole purpose of providing 1on1 training to 10 - 20 fighters who are all managed by the same person. Then link me enough to show those types of gyms outnumber open to the public gyms by 10 to 1.

 

Realistic would a public gym where the elite coaches hire themselves out for one on one training but also teach few group classes to fill their time. The public gyms may also rent floor space to ouside trainers.

 

The more realistic approach is to have several managers using the same gym and to coordinate so they each can get a few one on one classes for their fighters.

Its realistic because it is the only way to get 1 on 1 training as the top fighters get not because this is the way gyms work irl. I cant help how the gyms are set up. I can help how my fighters receive training. 1 on 1 trainin gis realistic as you even point out, well this is the only way to get it.

 

Maybe, but isn't that an improvement?

 

It could also result in multiple alliance gyms. Alliances could run a public recruitment gym to identify new managers they would like in the alliance and then invite those players to the alliance with an incentive of a higher quality gym.

Improvement for whom?

 

Is that the alliances that take anyone in? Or the ones who want you to be someone prior to letting you in? There are also the ones that are for business reasons and don't allow anyone in.

 

I think you are under the impression that you could afford a gym even with 1 coach per manager on newly made fighters salary. 1k is a bargain compared to what you would pay if you made your own gym. And don't complain about fighters salary next. It is higher than ever and the older vets tell me it used to be 100/100/100.

[GBK16]

Nah its not an improvement. Currently its a lot of VIP being brought into the game due to some older managers buying VIP for people to hold gyms.

 

So the VIP loss is a downside. People using the same gym, when they would normally have their own, literally leads to no difference in things.

[Kragarth]

Some good points, except for the false assumption that I have any thoughts of opening a gym.

 

From the perspective of a person evaluating whether this game is worth a long-term VIP investment, the prospect of making friends and training in a gym with them is more appealing than the prospect of making my own personal gym, but I doubt that will be a deal breaker as there are other areas for socialization. Thus, the loss of income from VIP holding gyms will likely exceed the value from increased new player VIPs.

[MichioKaku]

Some good points, except for the false assumption that I have any thoughts of opening a gym.

 

 

 

My suggestion is to limit the number and/or quality of coaches to the number of different managers that use a gym. Option #1 is the direct way: max total coaches = # of managers, so a gym with only one manager's fighters can only hire 1 coach, while a gym with 3 managers can hire 3 coaches.

 

 

the prospect of making friends and training in a gym with them is more appealing than the prospect of making my own personal gym, but I doubt that will be a deal breaker as there are other areas for socialization.

Whether you are the one who physically hits the open button or simply the 3rd member of the co-op. You are part owner in the gyms as you suggest as an option in your first post.

 

I have an org. I did not physically open and its not under my name but it is my partner and myself who own it. I also have a gym with said partner. It is under my name but just as much his as it is mine.

[Kragarth]

Oops, I suppose that should have read "thoughts of opening a gym any time soon." Months or years down the road I might want to run a gym (or I might not want to), but I'm not proposing this idea because I think it will in any way make it easier for me to open a gym, or participate in a gym co-op.

[Rocket]

If you want a Co op gym then open one. The fact is private gyms cost money, money which is usually earned via vip or earned through managers getting their fighters to the higher levels.

 

My point being running a private gym is expensive and people aren't going to be spending their own money if they need other people in order to reap the rewards. This would ultimately lose mike money from vip sales imo

[Guest]

Ultimately, we need to find a way to make public gyms profitable. Everyone and their second account brother who plays the game in the same house wants to be in the fight org business, even though most people don't know how to do it properly. Why?

 

1) Because it adds interactivity to a game that otherwise makes you wait days or even months at a time. People have a short attention span, and they need some reason to keep bringing them back here, otherwise they will lose interest while waiting for a fight. I believe this point needs to be addressed in some way: make gyms more interactive without making them necessarily harder for the gym owner. I'm not sure how to accomplish this, and would love to hear some ideas- good or bad ones.

 

2) Because fight organizations (and event writing, but not everybody can do this) make money, and money opens doors to better training for your own fighters. I believe that you would see more public gyms opening up if they brought in more money, and were simplified a bit. Why simplified? Because it requires so much explanation, the only people that will be opening public gyms either have someone paying them to do it, and explaining it to them as they go, or they're just a veteran that knows what he's doing already and wants the extra income.

 

But, really, the biggest problem is that the best training comes from having your own private gym with coaches that are specifically tailored towards your own needs. All you have to do is sell some VIP time and suddenly you can receive personal elite training that your competitors don't have. A quick fix to dissuade some private gym ownership would be to increase the cost of running a private gym via some type of tax or building rental, while increasing the income (NOT THE FIGHTER FEE) of the gym.

 

Edit: I want to change this point to say that building rental fees could be incorporated to dissuade private gyms... make it costly to run such a facility, but to offset these costs, you open the gym up to the public. Public gyms would receive the computer generated fans that I will be mentioning throughout this post... those fictitious fans would flock to popular public gyms, but would still pay for classes in regular gyms, thus offsetting the costs. Or, you can do all of that and just tax the shit out of private gyms. Sure, that will limit private gyms to only the elite of the game, but you don't see Cheick Kongo running off and building a gym and a fight camp around himself, do you? No, you see guys like Brock, who have financial backing, doing it. Of course, this would hurt ME, but I could live with that if it improves the game.

 

So, how do we increase the income of a public gym without making it too expensive for new fighters to join, thus bringing income back down? Perhaps some of those computer generated fans that attend our fight org events could start signing up at public gyms that have popular fighters training there. Having an elite fighter, or a local champion, fighting in your training camp could attract these computerized fans to taking classes in your gym. Of course, there would be public classes, and an elite fight team, with the latter obviously being restricted to actual fighters, but I believe this would give a boost to the income of public gyms.

 

 

I live down the street from Alliance Training Center in Chula Vista, California (no, not the dirty part of South San Diego), and I can tell you that people that barely understand MMA know that "those UFC guys" train there. There's a local buzz around places like that, because of who trains there.

 

 

As an aside, I would like to see there be more interactivity for public gyms to advertise to the computerized fans, be able to pay for minor upgrades to try to attract these fans in, and maybe even sponsor fighters that train at their gym, thus increasing attractiveness to the "fans". There should be an urge for public gyms to want to bring in and sponsor local fighters because such a thing increases local popularity, thus increasing how many computer generated fans sign up for classes there.

 

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass, but this whole lack of a public gym thing is disheartening to say the least.

[shockg]

Realistic? Please, link me to a fully equipped and staffed gym that is closed to the public because it operates for the sole purpose of providing 1on1 training to 10 - 20 fighters who are all managed by the same person. Then link me enough to show those types of gyms outnumber open to the public gyms by 10 to 1.

 

Realistic would a public gym where the elite coaches hire themselves out for one on one training but also teach few group classes to fill their time. The public gyms may also rent floor space to ouside trainers.

 

The more realistic approach is to have several managers using the same gym and to coordinate so they each can get a few one on one classes for their fighters.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10/6/9465829/tj-dillashaw-heads-to-new-team-in-colorado

 

Looks like there is at least 1 man. There are others without a public facing side as well. This place has been around a while, Rampage was training there in 2011.

[Kragarth]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10/6/9465829/tj-dillashaw-heads-to-new-team-in-colorado

 

Looks like there is at least 1 man. There are others without a public facing side as well. This place has been around a while, Rampage was training there in 2011.

That is not a private gym for a single manager's fighters. Dillashaw is managed by VDF Sports. Brandon Thatch, another member of that fight team is managed by Sven Bean. Jon Jones is also managed by VDF but trains elsewhere.

 

Further, the gym apparently allowed Matt Brown to train there before becoming a full fledged member. As Leister Bowling says, the gym is open to anyone (by which he means any professional fighter, and maybe just good ones): http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/10/11/9494739/coach-matt-brown-clay-guida-will-join-t-j-dillashaw-with-elevation

 

If your point is merely there are gyms exclusive to MMA fighters, that is true. What isn't true is that they follow a business model of being open only to fighters who share a single manager.

[CusDamato]

The thing is this is a game so the first thought needs to be what works best within the game, not what is the most alike to real life. Also the big advantage of private gyms went long ago now you can just swap VIP/fighter slots for in game money. These days anyone can own a private gym on day one and quiet often you see new guys with a fair amount of money.

[reggie]

I would love to see gyms open up more, but that'll never happen until they're a) more profitable and more controllable. As a gym owner, I have no say in what classes and sparring sessions people are allowed to sign up for. They pay the fee to use my gym as they see fit. If I ask people not to exceed 3 fighters per class and see that most classes are sitting at 4/5, I can't even see who is in the class to figure out who I need to boot for breaking the rules--even if I have 3 of the 4 fighters in the class. As far as I understand it, a sparring class of entirely 5-star fighters is roughly equivalent to training with elite coaches; if a bunch of 1-star guys flood the sparring session, it lowers the quality by a noticeable amount. To Kragarth's point about private gyms being unrealistic: most MMA gyms operate as a public/private hybrid; I trained at Team Quest in Gresham after high school, but they sure as shit didn't let me train with Randy or Matt during their heyday--Chael was still some dude Lindland had been training, otherwise he wouldn't've been training with us--the walk-ins, either. You let "people" use the facilities during the times the fighters aren't there. Something similar in the game for newbs/elites might work.

 

Once you get over 100k, tycoon cash is only useful for jets and VIP. I have no financial incentive to let people in my gym, lowering the quality of my fighters' training, if I'm not a new player. I often still do it, but that doesn't mean there isn't a systemic problem there. It would be better for all players if gym owners had a reason to share.

 

Frankly, the solution is to raise the $1000/w cap. Fighters at the top are the ones who need elite trainers, but even the newest of fighters can afford to train with them. I doubt you'll see a wave of Island-like gyms, focused on cramming 100+ fighters in with 20 Remarkable coaches, popping up in the game any time soon. But, if we can get creative, maybe adding a check-box for invite-only classes/sparring or something.

[Brrexkl]

I have a Gym in Helsinki, open to all.

 

I realize the Training will become diluted, but new players need some where to start. Some Training is better than no Training.

 

I put a 150/150 BJJ and a Balanced 75/150 Everything Coach in there. I'm going to need about 25 Fighters in this Gym to cover the Trainer Costs, and then work on more for the Loan Repayments.

[Guest]

I have a Gym in Helsinki, open to all.

 

I realize the Training will become diluted, but new players need some where to start. Some Training is better than no Training.

 

I put a 150/150 BJJ and a Balanced 75/150 Everything Coach in there. I'm going to need about 25 Fighters in this Gym to cover the Trainer Costs, and then work on more for the Loan Repayments.

good try but you need to read up on coaches and how to make them effective. an all skill proficient coach isn't going to do much good. and an elite MT coach cant train people in circuit training