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Clinch issues


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Poll: clinch issues (293 member(s) have cast votes)

Should it be easier to enter and exit the clinch?

  1. Voted Yes on entering (48 votes [16.38%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.38%

  2. Voted Yes on exiting (70 votes [23.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.89%

  3. Voted Yes for both (77 votes [26.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.28%

  4. Voted No for both (98 votes [33.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 33.45%

Should knee accuracy and damage be increased?

  1. Voted Accuracy needs a bump (53 votes [18.09%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 18.09%

  2. Voted Damage needs a bump (77 votes [26.28%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.28%

  3. Voted Both damage and accuracy need a bump (95 votes [32.42%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.42%

  4. Voted Neither needs a bump (68 votes [23.21%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 23.21%

Should elbow accuracy and damage be increased?

  1. Voted Accuracy needs a bump (49 votes [16.72%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 16.72%

  2. Voted Damage needs a bump (59 votes [20.14%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 20.14%

  3. Voted Both damage and accuracy need a bump (78 votes [26.62%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 26.62%

  4. Voted Neither needs a bump (107 votes [36.52%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.52%

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#1 JLP

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:53 PM

Mike said he'd take a look at clinch losing its effectiveness in the last year since the last engine update.

So lets use this thread to discuss whether you think its necessary and the extent that is needed.


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#2 JLP

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 04:57 PM

I think most anyone who reads the fight engine thread knows my opinion on this issue.  I think it should be much easier to both enter and exit the clinch.  Right now it is definitely easier to get a TD than to enter into a clinch.  Exiting a clinch is difficult too, ref separations are rare or maybe non-existent.  I can't recall ever seeing one.

I think that if we make entering and exiting easier, we need to boost knees and elbows a bit as well.  They are already so in-accurate that many managers completely ignore training them.  So if it was easier to escape the clinch they would be pretty much worthless. 


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#3 minark

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:00 PM

I think if we bump the accuracy accumulation alone will fix the damage on both elbows and knees. I also think with the engine changes that countering into the clinch is easier than ever but escaping the clinch is still very difficult.

Personally I think making knees and elbows more accurate for those with higher skills in knees and elbows would be a great fix alone.
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#4 shortfuse122829

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:02 PM

I say yes to entering, maybe on exiting. 

 
Yes to both elbow & knee accuracy but no to DMG. I've seen a recent fight where a few body knees led to gassing inside 2 min of the fight @ 170lbs & that's not an easy task so I think they're very effective when landing. 
 
If those are not like kicks & subs & others where you need them to defend them then it should be changed to that way IMO

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#5 JLP

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:05 PM

I think if we bump the accuracy accumulation alone will fix the damage on both elbows and knees. I also think with the engine changes that countering into the clinch is easier than ever but escaping the clinch is still very difficult.

Personally I think making knees and elbows more accurate for those with higher skills in knees and elbows would be a great fix alone.


The accuracy bump leading to accumulation is a good point.
I haven't had much luck countering into the clinch at all. From my experience, I can get about 2 TD's a fight via counter with sens wrestling/strong TD's. With sens wrestling/elite MT/elite clinch I have had entire fights were I was unable to counter into the clinch.

It would help a lot if clinch attempts were added to the fight imperial/statistics too.
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#6 Rambo

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:21 PM

Accuracy with knees to the head are fine, damage to knees to the head should increase.  Knees to the body/legs need accuracy improved.  Elbows are fine.


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#7 DavyJones

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:44 PM

Accuracy of knees and elbows should increase/decrease in relation to the skill level of your fighter and his opponent. I think its ridiculous that a fighter with useless elbows and knees have the same defenses as fighters with exceptional elbows and knees. Or at least it seems like this is the case. Skill level should have more effect on defense against these skills not only offense. This will force managers to spread out their skill points more, which is a good thing IMO. It will promote more fighter diversity which was something mike said he wanted rather than cookie cutter builds.

How many fighters out there have useless elbows and knees? Way too many, the way it stands right now you don't need those skills at all.
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#8 Rambo

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:47 PM

Accuracy of knees and elbows should increase/decrease in relation to the skill level of your fighter and his opponent. I think its ridiculous that a fighter with useless elbows and knees have the same defenses as fighters with exceptional elbows and knees. Or at least it seems like this is the case. Skill level should have more effect on defense against these skills not only offense. This will force managers to spread out their skill points more, which is a good thing IMO. It will promote more fighter diversity which was something mike said he wanted rather than cookie cutter builds.

How many fighters out there have useless elbows and knees? Way too many, the way it stands right now you don't need those skills.

 

If you have elite knees or elbows you can easily exploit a fighter in the clinch that has useless in those categories.


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#9 DavyJones

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:49 PM

As it stands right now, yes. But its something that should change. Obviously not an easy fix, it would probably require another skill reroll. Which I'm sure Mike wants to avoid at all costs.

Its no different than someone with elite kicks or subs dominating a fighter with useless levels in those skills.
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#10 poraan

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:52 PM

Takedowns are just too easy, that's why clinch feels to hard to get. I think knees/elbows are little underpowered.

 

If Mike makes knees/elbows to skills that you need to have to defend them, its biggest mistake ever.. Future of mmatycoon 120 points in every skill..


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#11 Rambo

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:53 PM

Takedowns are just too easy, that's why clinch feels to hard to get. I think knees/elbows are little underpowered.

 

If Mike makes knees/elbows to skills that you need to have to defend them, its biggest mistake ever.. Future of mmatycoon 120 points in every skill..

 

 

MMA

 

Mixed Martial Arts.


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#12 DavyJones

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:53 PM

Takedowns are just too easy, that's why clinch feels to hard to get. I think knees/elbows are little underpowered.
 
If Mike makes knees/elbows to skills that you need to have to defend them, its biggest mistake ever.. Future of mmatycoon 120 points in every skill..

If you wanted a roster full of Bisbings.

Um, they are already skills you need to defend them?

Is that true? It sure doesn't seem like it for elbows and knees. Right now it seems more like clinchwork, MT, wrestling and strength are enough to defend. Knees/elbow skill doesn't seem to make much of a difference at all for defense.
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#13 TheJanne

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:55 PM

If Mike makes knees/elbows to skills that you need to have to defend them, its biggest mistake ever.. Future of mmatycoon 120 points in every skill..

Um, they are already skills you need to defend them?


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#14 poraan

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 05:57 PM

Um, they are already skills you need to defend them?

maybe, but not as much as punches and kicks. 


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#15 Rambo

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 06:01 PM

I've seen guys throw nothing but punches or kicks and win fights vs some of the best fighters in the game.

 

http://www.mmatycoon...php?FTID=629174

 

 

You don't need kicks to defend kicks - it helps - you just need really high Muay Thai, Physicals, and Striking Defense.


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#16 JLP

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:33 PM

I'd like to see a little more failed TD's end up in the clinch too. Stand-ups should end up there too from time to time. I'm not sure if that happens currently though.
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#17 Wolf

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 10:38 PM

Edit : i will post a proper logical thinking when i am less drunk :)
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Wolf is a fucking cheater

 


#18 762x39

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:33 PM

I think it should be easier to enter the clinch and maybe exiting the clinch. I would not change the damage or accuracy of knees or elbows. I think both work fine.


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#19 generalmills

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:52 PM

Honestly, most of my big losses are to clinch spammers. It doesn't need to be increased. That would be insane. You have to lose energy if you are going to clinch 100%. 


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#20 Scooby

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Posted 17 April 2014 - 01:02 AM

Imo it should be slightly easier to enter the clinch, it shouldnt be easier to get a takedown than a clinch, knees should be more damage and higher accuracy to the body. I do not think that it should be easier to exit the clinch, i like it how it is, if a guy pins you to the cage with hooks in, youre in trouble if he wants to keep you there in real life. Honestly one or 2 good knees to the body land and many people are crumpled whereas here, fighters with wonderful clinchwork vs useless go 13/13 on knees over 6 minutes collectively before finally putting someone down,if those people are granted easier clinch exits for not training clinchwork then the clinch would become just as ineffective as escapes.


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