Ticker Replacements

[MMATycoon]

Note: things that have developed since this was first posted have * stars by them - check the bottom of the post.

 

OK, so we're gunna sort out a ticker replacement and wanted to run by you the short term patch and the proper solution to be programmed after that.

 

Patch

Tickers only apply at or above 80%* total skill or 120 points out of 150. Below that you can do what you like. This has programmed in an age factor so as you get older, past your age deterioration point, the level drops down by a couple of points per year. So if you are 5 years past your age deterioration point, the tickers would kick in at 110. This is programmed and ready to go if you're cool with it.

 

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Proper Solution

- The highest skilled fighter in the game has 90% overall total skill (135/150 average in everything).

- I want that to be about 80% so we can have fighter variation at the top level. If you have the ability to get to 135 in all skills, that's pretty much immortal in everything, so what's the point? If you can only average 120 in everything, you can have more variety, with e.g. 140 in some things and 100 in others. That means more fighter and fight variety and more variable fight planning and tactics. I appreciate I am preaching to the converted with most people reading this, but that's a quick explanation for people who haven't thought about it as much.

 

I would like to bring that down by squeezing the skills of everyone down by an appropriate amount. Example below.***NOTE IMPORTANT CHANGE TO THIS IN UPDATE POST 2. NOW SUGGESTING PERHAPS NO SQUEEZING BUT ADDING TWO EXTRA SECONDARIES.***

 

Example fighters' overall skill levels

135/150 skill average, in each of the 21 different attributes (90%)

120/150 skill average (80%)

100/150 skill average (67%)

90/150 skill average (60%)

75/150 skill average (50%)

 

I would like to bring down the top guy to 80% and reduce the other fighters' skills by less and less as you go down the total skills. We could pick a point below which no decrease would occur, e.g. 50% / 75 points, then work down as follows (numbers are rounded up / down a bit).

 

135 skill average (90%) would be cut to 120 average (80%) (15 point drop per skill average).

120 (80%) cut to 110 (73.33%) (10 point drop per skill average).

100 (66.66%) cut to 95 (63.33%) (5 point drop per skill average).

90 (60%) cut to 87.5 (58.33%) (2.5 point drop per skill average).

75 (50%) and below - no change.

 

** note below.

 

This would get us down to a much nicer and more gaming-friendly set of skills for the fighters. We brought in tickers to try and stop people getting over 80%ish but it happened anyway as I had to tone down the system because people didn't like having big skill drops from not training. That was pretty much crucial to the system working but it was too unpopular, so it was pretty much doomed to failure from that point onwards.

 

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Anyway, once we had everyone down to that level, we would basically cap a fighter's total skill at 80%, so you couldn't get higher than that.

 

So if you were at 80% and trained boxing for example, the skills you gained in boxing would just come off a spread of the skills you trained longest ago. So if it was a while since you trained leg kicks, the points would come off leg kicks and be put onto boxing. We could either do it really basic like that, or spread it across a few skills you hadn't trained for a while. The latter option would be my preference. Essentially this is using tickers behind the scenes to see what to take the skills off, but will only take any skills off, when you train something else.

 

In terms of general skill decrease from not training, we could still have that if you didn't train for ages but it would be a lot slower. We would also have a slow decrease of the 80% cap with age, once you got past your hidden drop off age.

 

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So, in general it would be basically no "maintenance" time sytem. No faffing about. None of that. You could leave your guys not training for a while and know that you could get back up to the max levels fairly quickly.

 

This will obviously mean quite a lot of fighters at this cap of 80%. That has a lot of pros and cons - lots of top level, even fights there. A defined target for people to aim at whilst training projects etc. I appreciate that might also be viewed as a bit weird and boring to know exactly what level all the top fighters are, so I'm open to suggestions on that.

 

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My solution to that problem is to have a "what have you trained recently" hidden boost. So for instance you could train hard in wrestling prior to a fight and your fighter would have a boost at fight time in his wrestling because it was fresh in his mind. We could have an e.g. 10 point hidden set of points that would be spread depending on what you trained recently, with perhaps in the longer term the option to have this include mental things like improved confidence from a psychologist or cornerman. The higher quality of coaches / training partners, the higher this hidden bonus could be. I wouldn't tell people quite the levels or effectiveness of this extra boost, to keep a bit more mystery.

 

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So that's the system I would like to go with. Please give your feedback. I am fairly certain it's the training system that's resulted in the large majority of the drop off in member numbers, so this is something which will get done in one form or another (so sorry if you're one of the people that like tickers).

 

We would put the cap on the overall skills, not on physicals, primaries and secondaries individually. If you wanted to put someone at ridiculously high physicals, you could do that but it would take away from elsewhere.

 

I am open to semi-hybrid systems. Perhaps a much simplified skill decrease system between 70-80% total skills, or something like that, if a lot of you are seriously against having lots of fighters at that same level. Perhaps we could have aptitudes play a part in fight calculations, in a similar way to the hidden "what have you trained recently" system, to add extra variety.

 

Anyway, fire away.

 

 

# update post - click here

# update post 2 - click here

 

 

* proposal is now to have a new hidden for variable peak potential between 78-82% If you are currently over 82% skill, I've proposed you will automatically get the 82%, which is currently under discussion.

** it has been proposed people should be able to pick which skills they would like to cut their points from and I have no problem with that.

*** I'm now proposing not squeezing skills but adding two extra secondaries. See update post 2.

[DougSupreme]

I'd like to see a cap set at even less than 80%. 70-75% would be better IMO.

[Guest]

I love the idea , but I dislike a hard cap.

I want the fast learner hidden to mean something even at the top level.

 

I dont really know how to implement this, but I do feel like some variation to this so that 150 fast learners still get the same advantage that say a 150 big heart or 150 granite chin would get.

 

Just like in real life, some fighters are just insanely good learners.

Take GSP and rampage jackson for instance.

Both were champions, but based on totally different mindsets.

[Guest]

Also, you cant vote in only one of the polls, making the come back in two days pull redundant

[MMATycoon]

Also, you cant vote in only one of the polls, making the come back in two days pull redundant

Sorted, thanks

[Guest]

Still doesn't work O_o

[MMATycoon]

I love the idea , but I dislike a hard cap.

I want the fast learner hidden to mean something even at the top level.

 

I dont really know how to implement this, but I do feel like some variation to this so that 150 fast learners still get the same advantage that say a 150 big heart or 150 granite chin would get.

 

Just like in real life, some fighters are just insanely good learners.

Take GSP and rampage jackson for instance.

Both were champions, but based on totally different mindsets.

In that instance you could easily say that the advantage is getting to compete at the top quicker and for longer, hence earning more hype and money.

[Guest]

In that instance you could easily say that the advantage is getting to compete at the top quicker and for longer, hence earning more hype and money.

 

Well yes, but I feel that even at the top level there should be diversity in skill levels.

 

Some fighters have risen to the top based on their fighting hiddens, while some have just been insanely skilled and that made the difference, I feel the only downside to this idea is that it nerfs the fast learner hidden since it no longer becomes relevant once you hit the top level.

Part of what makes this game fun, at least for me, is to marvel at the skills of the top guys and think to myself "one day I will be there"

That's why I would much rather have say a 28 year old with triple elite and a black belt decline faster as he gets older, than remove it completely from the game, see what im saying?

[Dee]

I think I like it. I will let you more intelligent ppl sort out the minor details but all in all this sounds really good to me.

 

ps. "[#10355] You must cast your vote in each question of the poll."

 

pps. CAN'T WAIT to get rid of the tickers gawd dammit!

[MMATycoon]

Still doesn't work O_o

It does, cos your vote is in both polls, mr timetraveller

[IHU]

I went with I like some parts and dont like other parts..

 

The poll makes you vote for both and wouldn't allow me to just tick off one of the polls.

 

I didn't like the fact that it affected all fighters and would have liked it to kick in at a later age. However, the whole "what have you trained lately" idea is intriguing.

[JLP]

In my opinion this just dooms all grappler builds unless there is a change in the fight engine that vastly increases the use of a skill to defend against the same skill being applied to you. Example being submissions, right now my fighters with no subs at all are still very hard to submit due to high defensive grappling and slider settings. With the system being proposed I'll just let takedowns, ground and pound, and submissions decay and still be very hard to takedown and enjoy an even wider striking advantage with my strikers.

[Guest]

It does, cos your vote is in both polls, mr timetraveller

 

I had to vote in both to be able to vote...

Will change my vote after 2 days

[coton81]

I like some parts not others

I think u do need decay may b on physicals

But may b not so much on primaries as a fighter doesnt forget how to box wrestle or use his jits he just becomes physicalky unable to b as quick or hit hard etc

[JLP]

I'd also like to know how the leveling below 80% is going to take place. Will it be a percentage across the board or do we get a say in how our fighters are decayed?

[Qrash]

I am ok with the proposal, but I tend to not like hard caps. As stated above, I kind of agree that it makes a fast learner less important. I see a couple potential options to help that out:

 

1) A new hidden for fighter cap. If Mike wants an 80% default cap, perhaps a hidden can bring it slightly higher...maybe to 82-83%.

 

2) The current Fast Learner hidden effects the cap, giving a possible boost up to 83%.

 

3) A new hidden that slows down the aging effect. It's a little unrealistic that every single fighter peaks at the same age and starts declining at the same age. Maybe a hidden can slow down some of the aging effect so that some fighters don't start degrading until 32 instead of 30 (just a random example)

 

4) The current Fast Learner hidden also effects the aging degradation. If you learn fast, you lose the knowledge slow.

 

That being said, if none of these are implemented I'm still fine with Mike's proposal.

[AlexiZaitev]

I agree with JLP on this. This basically makes grapplers far more difficult to reach top levels because of the total amount of skil they need to be effective is FAR higher than that of a striker. Unless the engine is changed to where you need more than high wrestling, high TDD and balance to stuff a take down.

[Guest]

I am ok with the proposal, but I tend to not like hard caps. As stated above, I kind of agree that it makes a fast learner less important. I see a couple potential options to help that out:

 

1) A new hidden for fighter cap. If Mike wants an 80% default cap, perhaps a hidden can bring it slightly higher...maybe to 82-83%.

 

2) The current Fast Learner hidden effects the cap, giving a possible boost up to 83%.

 

3) A new hidden that slows down the aging effect. It's a little unrealistic that every single fighter peaks at the same age and starts declining at the same age. Maybe a hidden can slow down some of the aging effect so that some fighters don't start degrading until 32 instead of 30 (just a random example)

 

4) The current Fast Learner hidden also effects the aging degradation. If you learn fast, you lose the knowledge slow.

 

That being said, if none of these are implemented I'm still fine with Mike's proposal.

 

Pretty much my thoughts on the subject.

[Bowser]

In my opinion this just dooms all grappler builds unless there is a change in the fight engine that vastly increases the use of a skill to defend against the same skill being applied to you. Example being submissions, right now my fighters with no subs at all are still very hard to submit due to high defensive grappling and slider settings. With the system being proposed I'll just let takedowns, ground and pound, and submissions decay and still be very hard to takedown and enjoy an even wider striking advantage with my strikers.

 

 

This is my main thought as well. I think that we will have even fewer wrestlers at the top level and less submissions. Maybe making your sub offense and ground n pound play a bigger role in if you get submitted or lit up from the ground may change this up so people cant completely forego subs and gnp entirely.

 

Also, I'm not sure if it's currently the case, but I think pulling guard should be determined by your bjj and subs vs your opponents bjj and subs, which could help get more bjj fighters involved because it seems there are very few top fighters that ever go to the ground. There is only 1 fighter in the top P4P that has any subs at all.

 

Basically, what I'm saying is that to create diversity, we need to create a fear of other builds and a reason for people to have other builds.

[Guest]

I dont think that is going to be a problem, because high level strikers will have to forego either their bjj or their wrestling, meaning that they will either be easier to take down, or easier to sub once taken down.

[JLP]

I dont think that is going to be a problem, because high level strikers will have to forego either their bjj or their wrestling, meaning that they will either be easier to take down, or easier to sub once taken down.

 

High level strikers will just neglect subs, takedowns and gnp. Wrestling, TDD and DGrappling will still be high. Grapplers will have to let striking skills degrade as well, making them far more vulnerable on the feet.

[Grasman]

I fucking love this proposed system..

[Bowser]

I dont think that is going to be a problem, because high level strikers will have to forego either their bjj or their wrestling, meaning that they will either be easier to take down, or easier to sub once taken down.

 

The only concern is getting the fight to the ground, because you gas after about 4-7 takedown attempts and are suseptible to big counter shots and with elite tdd vs elite tdo it's really a battle that often goes to the defender.

[Dee]

I dont think that is going to be a problem, because high level strikers will have to forego either their bjj or their wrestling, meaning that they will either be easier to take down, or easier to sub once taken down.

BOOM! 100% agreed.

[PBR]

I dont think that is going to be a problem, because high level strikers will have to forego either their bjj or their wrestling, meaning that they will either be easier to take down, or easier to sub once taken down.

not totally sold on that -- http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=136834 is at the 80% mark -- he has great wrestling with elite grappling d and takedown d

 

 

sadly http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=41081 isnt even at 80% yet and has beaten high level wrestlers / blk belts