Erik Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 NK doesn't even have anything with enough RANGE to hit mainland US lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 NK doesn't even have anything with enough RANGE to hit mainland US lol The best they can do is hit Guam... if they had a guidance system that could even come close... It's laughable actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eveas Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't think we should nuke them. But I feel this casual attitude like they are not dangerous is dangerous in itself. I think we should respond aggressive. Maybe not right now. But I would send a message that they have had their last change to STFU. Then the ass kicking would start. You cant be complacent. They are the weaker opponent. History of combat has shown up the weak opponent depends on complacency and over confidence to surprise the bigger opponents. Stuff like this is why we study history. We all know if they are in the wrong and you don't teach them a lesson like any child who tests your boundaries or a criminal ir works his way into bigger crimes. It will get worse and they will only respond to resistance. we cant wait for a devastating strike that puts us on the defensive. I realize this country is a mixture of passive and aggressive people and there is pros and cons of either way of handling it. But I feel the right way is deal with the problem when it arises. NK has asked for trouble and what their leader has done would be criminal if any of us were to publicly threaten lives. After attacks we are always saying "if we would have known". Well you don't get a better warning this this. They have said what they want to do and what we all know is just a matter of time before they do it. Strange with all the dictators being over thrown and killed than another would be so suicide. Makes you think a WW3 is destined. If you don't act the shit will hit the fan. IF you do act you risk pissing people off. Its going to happen. Just a matter of time. No one is being complacent. Just realistic. The US is doing close to what you just said already by doing our join military training so close to their border and flying our jets where they can't miss them. South Korea could already make the North their bitch without our help, but we still have the missile defenses to stop anything they shoot before it gets anywhere near a real target, the carrier groups, the 3rd Marine Division in Okinawa, the 1st Marine Airwing in Iwakuni, MAG 12's Cobra squadrons in Thailand, Satellites that will know when any missile is ready to launch before the North Koreans do, ect... The military has their eye on the North. Just because we all know they are not a real threat does not mean we ignore them. It isn't a pre-emptive attack which would be stupid, but it is a clear message we are just waiting for a reason to use that force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/2013/03/19/094725/83173272/hhhy.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 What is the chances that they can shoot a nuke to like Russia? Why would they want to? It's not Russia that's flying over their airspace to provoke them into war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Why would they want to? It's not Russia that's flying over their airspace to provoke them into war. Wow. Can you get a more Anti-American view? N. Korea threatens to nuke American cities and it the USA that is trying to provoke a war? I know most of our client states hate the USA, but siding with N Korea takes that to a whole new level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't think that was what Timmy meant by that. I think he was simply asking why North Korea would want to nuke Russia. Russia has done nothing to provoke North Korea. I can see how you might think that he was making an Anti-American statement though, but that is not how I saw it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I don't think that was what Timmy meant by that. I think he was simply asking why North Korea would want to nuke Russia. Russia has done nothing to provoke North Korea. I can see how you might think that he was making an Anti-American statement though, but that is not how I saw it. I took it as blaming the current ramp up of hostilities on the Korean Peninsula on the USA. Which is absurd and represents a mindset that is clueless about global politics. Personally, I'd prefer the vast majority US troops to come home and most overseas bases to close. This would force our client states to spend money on their own defense programs. The result of that would only help the American economy, that will never happen though. S Korea could handle N Korea on there own if the conflict occurred in a vacuum. The potential high stakes of a nuclear conflict assure that will never happen though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Totally agree. Watch how fast the rest of the world would shit themselves if we ever said, "Fuck it! You're on your own now!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Totally agree. Watch how fast the rest of the world would shit themselves if we ever said, "Fuck it! You're on your own now!" By the rest of the world you basically mean anyone in close proximity to China without nuclear weapons. Nobody else would give a shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJones Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 http://emergent-culture.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/oops-no-wmd.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksoul Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 By the rest of the world you basically mean anyone in close proximity to China without nuclear weapons. Nobody else would give a shit. I agree. There's some countries that have put themselves in harms way by standing side by side with America. It also makes me laugh how some people must think that the US gets nothing out if these arrangements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 The cost-benefit ratio of most of those arrangements is usually much more heavily weighted towards the cost side for the US. I still stand by my statement that most of the world would lose their shit if we told them they are on their own. Most countries that we help are just an albatross around our necks. Very few are of any help at all. Take France for example. We saved their sorry asses not once, but twice from the Germans. Had we not intervened (twice) they would have been a permanent addition to the German Empire. What thanks do we get from them? They refused to let us fly over their country to bomb Libya back in the late 80's when we determined that they had backed the terrorists that hijacked and blew up a plane over Lockerbie (?), Scotland. We had to fly over Germany, and Italy to get there; having to refuel, twice in the process. Why? Because our "allies" France were in bed with the Libyans. They have had a long standing relationship with what was considered a terrorist sponsor state. They sold an old style nuclear reactor to Iraq, under an embargo which made that sale illegal, during the late 70's. Iraq wanted that particular type of reactor because it produced a higher grade of Uranium which was much easier to refine into weapons grade material for their nuclear weapons program. Israeli fighter jets destroyed the reactor, in June of 1981, after France and Italy refused to cease and desist the production of the reactor. (Many argue that the reactor would not have been effective in producing weapons, but many disagree with that assessment) France later sold Iraq two more nuclear reactors (again while Iraq was under an embargo). These may have been destroyed during the most recent Gulf War. France sold four Russian made GPS jamming devices to Iraq (while these technologies were prohibited under the embargoes on Iraq) during the period between between the two Gulf Wars. A curious sale considering that at the time (and probably still true today) that only the US and it's allies used GPS guided munitions. Ironically, the US used GPS guided bombs to destroy those facilities which were deployed in and around Baghdad. I guess they didn't work so well, but the point is that France armed an enemy of the US and other NATO allies against the very weapons that those forces utilize. France conducted joint military operations in 2001 with China. Why? China is not an ally. France has consistently backed what the US has listed as "Terrorist sponsor states". Libya, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. France refused to support the US in the second Gulf War, but when the fighting was done they wanted to he in rebuilding efforts that would have profited France greatly. France also refused to back the US in it's invasion of Afghanistan. In summary the US doesn't need the support of most of those foreign powers. They need us. If we pulled our backing they would be screwed. I would only continue to support a few of the nations that we currently do as only a few a deemed worthy in my eyes. England being one of them. Denmark, Russia and maybe Germany as well. The others... fuck 'em. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPenn Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Let me chime in on a few points here. First off the threat of NK nuking the USA is real in a few ways. They have successfully tested a intercontinental missile recently so they do have the tech but the hardware might not be currently avalible. Secontly they do not need to hit the USA to do damage, the fall out could kill a lot of ppl and if the winds are against us the losses could be vast. Now those two points are not the scary ones, here is what scares the shit out of me. The USA can not afford to get into another war, if it does it could very well cause the down fall of the American dollar. This would change the world as we know it. The North Korean know this, so does China and most of the countries that are against the USA, and for good reasons. Lets look at another point, someone said that if the USA stopped helping the world that the world would be worse off. Well that may not be the case. We as Americans tend to see things differently then the rest of the world and thats not good as we do things without complete agreement from the rest of the world. We do what we want and answer to no one, but China. China is the world controllers. China truly does what they want with out repercussions from anyone. The UN is not even allowed to inspect China. I would like to see a UN controled by China. I'll bet the world would stop playing games and walk a straight line with the fear that if China acted like the USA and invaded countries for there own benifits shit would get real in a bad way for anyone who was not compliant with the UN. Example, here is the difference. If NK tells the world that war is eminent and their going to use nuke tomorrow the USA will send 25k troops to stop this act over night and we will be at war for years in attempts to settle it. The USA would then act like we liberated this country and help there ppl. China would send 150k troops within 12 hours and have the issue resolved in a few weeks. China would own NK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 By the rest of the world you basically mean anyone in close proximity to China without nuclear weapons. Nobody else would give a shit. If the US closed oversea bases and stopped the military welfare program, here is a list of countries that would give a shit off the top of my head: Japan Taiwan S. Korea Israel Saudi Arabia Australia Phillipines Any of the former Soviet states that are now independent Poland Eastern Europe Turkey Germany The ridiculousness of our foreign policy is that by stationing troops overseas in economically competitive countries, we allow them to focus more of their resources on domestic spending and programs that help their people and economy. Germany and Japan haven't been allowed to spend much on military since WW2 and instead allocated their resources to rebuild their economies. Which is far easier to do when you aren't wasting a fortune protecting your client states. Any country that allows US troops to be stationed there can use their presence as the ultimate deterrent. An invasion of a country with a US base there would be seen as an attack against the US, which is why so many countries allow it. In essence we allow them to borrow our military power as a deterrent and ask little in return. We've stupidly become the policeman of the world and while there are some benefits the cost is far too high. Most American's won't admit that the whole reason we were the most powerful country after WW2 is simply because we were the only large and modern country that wasn't leveled by the fighting. The idea of American exceptionalism hasn't died away yet, our government still pretends its the 60s in terms of geo-politics and most of the people here blindly follow along. The rest of the world has caught up to us and the USA helped a lot of them do it. We really can't afford to keep everyone in check and behaving themselves anymore. The last 40 years or so has been probably the most peaceful the planet has seen since people were organized into political/national identities. The main influence behind that was the US military holding a big stick over everyone's heads. That's going to slowly go away and the world is going to become a much more interesting and violent place. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 If the US closed oversea bases and stopped the military welfare program, here is a list of countries that would give a shit off the top of my head: Japan Taiwan S. Korea Israel Saudi Arabia Australia Phillipines Any of the former Soviet states that are now independent Poland Eastern Europe Turkey Germany Latvia is not one of them! We show you middle finger USA imperial bastards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Latvia is not one of them! We show you middle finger USA imperial bastards. Latvia isn't important enough to get any military assistance. Latvia's chief export is Herpes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 What is the chances that they can shoot a nuke to like Russia? Nk will never do that. Russia would show them a thing or 2 about how you wipe the floor with another country. If Germany with all theirpower could take on russia. What make you think nk has a chance. If they somehow shoot aanything at russia.nk will be wiped off the map and noone will be able to save them. You dont fuck with the russia. When they come at you they do it all the way and they will fuck up anything in their way. Please nk shoot a rocket at russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Nk will never do that. Russia would show them a thing or 2 about how you wipe the floor with another country. If Germany with all theirpower could take on russia. What make you think nk has a chance. If they somehow shoot aanything at russia.nk will be wiped off the map and noone will be able to save them. You dont fuck with the russia. When they come at you they do it all the way and they will fuck up anything in their way. Please nk shoot a rocket at russia. I wasnt thinking that they will shoot at Russian by that I just wanted to know what range can they shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Latvia isn't important enough to get any military assistance. Latvia's chief export is Herpes. Latvia is to proud to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Not going to quote you, JLP, but essentially that is what I am saying. I didn't say no one would give a shit. I said that the would would be in deep shit, if we pulled back to defending our own borders and those of a few of our chief allies and that's it. I should add Japan to that list o countries that I would still support and South Korea as well, because of the deterrent they represent to the North Koreans. Steel Penn... you do bring up an interesting point about the financial burden of a war at this time, but the US would just borrow our way out of it again. You are very, very wrong about the level of threat that China represents though. China is only slightly more of a threat than North Korea is. Russia is a significantly more viable threat than China is. They have a more modern military and they have better tactics then the Chinese. The Chinese lost two minor wars with Russia shortly after WW2 and they have bristled about that ever since, but are unable to do anything about it. China would not resolve that war any faster than any other country would. They would simply make a huge mess of things. There would be a lot of collateral damage since they lack precision munitions, The civilian casualties would be horrendous, again because of lack of precision, but also for lack of compassion. The Chinese simply don't give a shit about civilian casualties. The Chinese Air Force (the largest air force in the world) would be highly effective against a country like North Korea but against Russia or the US they would be in deep shit. When President Bush first got elected and there was an incident with China involving one of our spy planes flying in international waters. One of their fighter pilots challenged it and when it refused to alter course the Chinese fighter pilot buzzed it several times. One of those times it clipped the front of the spyplane n was destroyed. the Spyplane made a forced landing on Hainan Island where it was captured by the Chinese military. There was a tense political standoff over that issue and that is when we increased out naval presence from two carrier groups to four in the South China Sea and elsewhere in the theater. A reporter asked one of the admirals of one of those carrier groups was asked about the threat posed by the Chinese airforce. His reply was that if China sent their air force after his carrier group then China would need to build another air force. He went on to say that just one of the Aegis cruisers in the group could easily destroy hundreds of missiles and aircraft almost simultaneously. And that they have half a dozen Aegis cruisers in the carrier group. That was to say nothing of the other ships in the group that also have disgusting anti-aircraft capabilities. China is of little threat to us... Of the countries in the world that are a threat, they are right up there as one of the top ones, but they also would be smashed. They even admitted it about 12-15 years ago. That was why they backed down from us over the plane issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Latvia is to proud to take it. Pride goeth before the fall... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Pride goeth before the fall... Its better to have pride then to beg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Latvia is to proud to take it. Wrong. U.S. Assistance to Latvia The United States provides a limited amount of military assistance to Latvia. In Fiscal Year 2012, $7.5 million worth of assistance is being provided through various military programs. http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5378.htm Latvia is just to shitty and backwards to get much assistance. They are just poseur Russians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksoul Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 Its better to have pride then to beg. You're saying that safe in the knowledge that Latvia means nothing to anybody so no one would waste their time invading that shit hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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