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CW, Myron Monroe is the one who broke it all down... it was an eye opener for me I used to max out Strength and Conditioning and my other Physicals were greatly reduced as a result... but with more of the starting points being put into the other Physicals then my guys since that point have all been absolute beasts. Due to the amount of time I had to devote to building up the Physicals of my first round of fighters they are severely lacking in skills compared to other fighters of the same ID range. That coupled with the fact that the training facilities I had access to at that time were substandard public gyms, left me far behind many of the other players of the game .

 

My slider skills are my saving grace, the only real reason I am able to compete really. I have seen some highly experienced managers still TD spamming and sub spamming to try and get the win. Relying on their higher Primaries and more skill points alone to secure the win. Sometimes that is enough, but I have often been able to surprise these guys because of smart Slider settings that capitalize on their stupid settings.

 

IT does in fact take about 28 session to go from Abysmal to high Wonderful or Exceptional give or take a few. And another 30 or so to get Strength up as well, but the other Physicals are so hard to train up (comparatively speaking) that with them starting at Proficient or so makes it better all around for the rapid development of the fighter.

 

Granted this precludes that fighter fighting at all for a while. This is strictly project fighters here meaning that they will likely be ding fuck all for 24 weeks or so. Maybe more. The new template builds Mike put in for fighters might not be a bad way to go if you wanna just jump straight into it I guess. They do look fairly reasonable. I don't make well rounded fighters ready to fight out the gate any more... I prefer to give them time to develop into something kinda scary first...

 

:showoff: :shades:

 

I have looked but I can not find the original post, so my questioning of the numbers is purely out of curiosity.

 

An 18 year old starts with 180 physical creation points at the beginning.

 

This can be modelled in several ways (from my observations since my return so not definite), but assuming a basic boxer/wrestler build is being made (and for ease of purpose, points have been evenly given to key attributes) then these points can be distributed thusly:

 

Attribute: Starting Number (After 60 days of training - *a reasoned estimate)

Agility: 56 (56)

Flexibility: 1 (1)

Speed: 56 (56)

Strength: 1 (110*)

Conditioning: 10 (115*)

Balance: 56 (56)

 

The same fighter set up with max conditioning, and with 1 in 4 CT coach training would look roughly like this

 

Agility: 18 (72.5*)

Flexibility: 17 (70*)

Speed: 17 (70*)

Strength: 1 (65*)

Conditioning: 110 (120*)

Balance: 17 (70*)

 

For me, this second option is a much stronger build. Yes, more time would be needed to be put into strength, but when the fighter is rounded out, his ground game will be much stronger. He will have also exceeded at least two of the three attributes given to him on the other build (assuming that most people would be more uneven with their distribution than the above example).

 

This becomes far more complicated at a CT coaching level of 6/7 to 1. In this case, the numbers (again these are from my recent experiments and so not categorical) work out as:

 

Agility: 18 (55*)

Flexibility: 17 (52.5*)

Speed: 17 (52.5*)

Strength: 1 (40*)

Conditioning: 110 (115*)

Balance: 17 (52.5*)

 

At this point, the first build and this one are very similar, but different people will see preferences depending on their own choosing. This build is clearly short of strength which would take another 20 or so sessions to get up to par. There is also a good chance that this build will be at a lower level in at least two key categories compared to the first build.

 

On the other hand, this fighter will be more rounded once those flaws have been ironed out. The first build would have to do at least 20 or so yoga sessions to equal this fighters flexibility and one of speed and balance is always likely to be behind. As the fighter moves forward, this could become an issue in itself, but then it might not be important at the same time.

 

So to dismiss the 110 conditioning/1 strength model seems to be premature.

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Thank you very much for the in-depth analysis Cardiff, that's outstanding! The only question I have is are these figures based upon the fighter having access to, and using, a 160 value supplement, and using the supplement that best supports the particular training?

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In my personal experience the fighters built like fighter one has a much stronger physical build then the ones built more well rounded. Many of my fighters are Sensational or higher across the board in Physicals with very solid Secondaries as well... many who have had access to better gyms for longer will have better stats, which is part of my problem with my older fighters, but also they were built rounded and therefore had no real strengths and as a result were not particularly effective at either defense or offense.

 

The time to get into the cage is shorter which is precisely my point on why I prefer method 1. I am not so sure how I would go about building a fighter that I want to start fighting right out the gate, but I would almost certainly start them more like method two because I would probably also start them as a 25 year old and that would mean that their learning speed could hinder their development to the point that they would not be effectively able to fight for a long time... which runs directly counter to the point of a fighter you want to throw into the mix straight away.

 

I guess the point is that both methods have their strong points and their weak points. It comes down to what your goal is and what your preference is. I just think that project type fighters do better if they start with the lower Conditioning and Strength because they are so much easier and faster to train.

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Not going to flat out say you are wrong, but there are different schools of thought on it. As me and CW have laid out. Starting with maxed out Cardio was what I thought as a noob was the way to go, but it has been my experience that it works better the other way. Conditioning and Strength are arguably the most important Physicals, but they are also the easiest to train up. Putting more points into the other Physicals means they require less training to raise and therefore less time needs to be spent on them to get them to decent levels. It also depends on whether you want to fight the guy right away, or train him up a bunch first.

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Thank you very much for the in-depth analysis Cardiff, that's outstanding! The only question I have is are these figures based upon the fighter having access to, and using, a 160 value supplement, and using the supplement that best supports the particular training?

 

The sups used in this test were a variety of 158 and 159s. How similar or different these are was rather interesting as well, but thats another story.

 

Basically there is nothing used that would be unavailable to the average user, and any differences would be statistically insignificant.

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Im a noob,but reading this thread makes me feel like maxing out the conditioning trait at fighter creation makes the most sense, due to training capability. but i could be wrong

 

Basically, whether max cardio works best (in my opinion) when you make an 18 year old who has the money and connections to get equal or better than 1 in 4 (or possibly 1 in 5) CT Training.

 

If you make an older fighter, do not possess the money or connections to get the quality of training you like, you are better maximising the stats you will need and build cardio and strength through individual training.

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It does seem that having an older fighter at the beginning (25) tends to cause me to invest the points into the other physical attributes other than Strength and Conditioning because for a 25 year-old, the time involved in training those other attributes simply isn't the same, obviously, as a younger fighter, even if the 25 year-old displays a penchant for fast learning.

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It does seem that having an older fighter at the beginning (25) tends to cause me to invest the points into the other physical attributes other than Strength and Conditioning because for a 25 year-old, the time involved in training those other attributes simply isn't the same, obviously, as a younger fighter, even if the 25 year-old displays a penchant for fast learning.

 

Its not just what the fighter can do but what the relative points mean in terms of learning time.

 

It is more difficult to improve a fighters skill as the skill gets higher so it takes longer to train from superb to remarkable than it does strong to superb, and so on.

 

A 25 year old can have all 4 physicals at respectable + if evenly distributed and much higher ones if carefully chosen. This would take longer to obtain than it would to use supps to get their cardio and strength up.

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I never thought of it that way Cardiff. In a sense, it's physically easier to have a well-rounded 25 year-old in a relative short time as opposed to what it would take an 18 year-old beginning with the same balanced approach to physicals, Cardio and Strength aside, to achieve, even with training and supplements?

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I never thought of it that way Cardiff. In a sense, it's physically easier to have a well-rounded 25 year-old in a relative short time as opposed to what it would take an 18 year-old beginning with the same balanced approach to physicals, Cardio and Strength aside, to achieve, even with training and supplements?

 

A 25 year old is designed so new players can be competitive relatively quickly at a lower level org. There is no reason why a 25 year old cannot have a successful career for a long time as long as they do not expect to challenge the best in the game.

 

So, yes a 25 year old is easier to round out to a respectable level.

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http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=175231

 

Prime example of what a 25 year old can do. I thought my 25 year old tourney creation was doing pretty well too, so I thought it'd be fun to fight another 25 old. Well Djoser smashed my decent one.

 

http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=552965

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I just sacked one with 137 IQ because he was such a slow learner, and my hands down fastest learner keeps getting the "Stubbed his toe in the shower because he's dumb" messages. Even Mike has confirmed that the Fast learner and Intelligence stats are completely unrelated.

 

Edit: Not to mention that Fast learner has no effect on physicals.

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duphus, I can see your point, but Dragon got cut enough over his eye to affect him so that may have just been a stroke of bad luck because it seemed the fighters were pretty evenly matched, from what little knowledge I have of course.

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Igor, so having high intelligence means the fighter can adopt his gameplan, but in terms of fast learner, he actually may be average despite the high intelligence?

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Intelligence has nothing to do with learning speed, period. One had to do with learning speed (leaning speed hidden) the other has to do with his fighting and ability to know what to do in a fight (intelligence).

 

They are not related and are completely separate things, thus the reason they are separate hiddens

 

 

And as Igor said physicals train the same on all fighters (supposedly), regardless of learning speed.

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All hidden attributes are a random number allocated.

 

The 3 tick boxes you click on creation give those random numbers an increase of 30 points (or 20%)

 

Intelligence and Learning Speed are different hidden attributes. So they are given a different random figure on creation. There is no connection between the two.

 

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It is worth remembering that there are factors that do effect training physicals. Gym cleanliness, morale and energy are some of the biggest factors. The difference between someone with high morale/energy etc, compared to one who is missing these factors is surprising.

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Duphus is completely right. And physical learning speed is equal for all fighters (of the same age, morale, equipment, etc) :)

 

E: What CW said.

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duphus, I can see your point, but Dragon got cut enough over his eye to affect him so that may have just been a stroke of bad luck because it seemed the fighters were pretty evenly matched, from what little knowledge I have of course.

 

Getting a cut that affected his fight performance has nothing whatsoever to do with his luck. It is more a factor of his opponents abilities.

 

Igor, so having high intelligence means the fighter can adopt his gameplan, but in terms of fast learner, he actually may be average despite the high intelligence?

 

I was going to post a response to address this question, but the next quote is exactly 100% accurate and correct. So I just quoted him instead.

 

All hidden attributes are a random number allocated.

 

The 3 tick boxes you click on creation give those random numbers an increase of 30 points (or 20%)

 

Intelligence and Learning Speed are different hidden attributes. So they are given a different random figure on creation. There is no connection between the two.

 

--------------------------------------

It is worth remembering that there are factors that do effect training physicals. Gym cleanliness, morale and energy are some of the biggest factors. The difference between someone with high morale/energy etc, compared to one who is missing these factors is surprising.

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Thank you as always, gentlemen, for the enlightenment as it has helped me that much more in terms of understanding learning speed and intelligence. As always, it is much appreciated.

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when I train my fighter with cardio I use a reduce energy loss product.

I can't use also the stamina product,right? When can I use it?

 

You can only use one product at a time.

 

You would use a stamina product when doing cardio, not reduce energy loss. When doing cardio, you gain a lot more per session in improvement using that supp than you would gain from the extra energy,

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