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Official Nutrition Improvement Thread


MMATycoon

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Just to preface my post I'd state this: supply of supplements is essentially always limitless for these reasons.

 

1) Nutrition companies do not require any discernible skill or strategy to run; you start a company and research a 159/160 recovery supp and bang, you have money coming in.

 

2) In-game money is limitless, as such research costs are a non-factor in the long term.

 

 

 

 

I still think the best bet is to lower the ammount of time supps last and lower the ordering cap. If supplements are in high demand and their aren't enough for every player to buy, prices will naturally rise, holes will be filled and niches will be created. Edsfan is gonna cry how this is unfair to the noobs. Well, they could try writing, starting fighters in smaller cities, or even open up a supplement company that is now viable in the new system. It's pretty basic economics, if people can't afford supplements then someone will fill the void and sell a reasonably priced 145ish.

 

This won't solve the over saturation problem, it'll just mean that instead of having 1-2 nutrition companies pet city we'll have 4-6 nutrition companies and there's still going to be the same set of problems. Plus it really does kick noobs unnecessarily, which is not something the game needs; it takes enough time to work out what's going on and how to make money as is (without mentoring anyway).

 

 

Also if we're going to insist on something like supps decaying over time, then I think it should also decay in the store if it doesn't sell which would at least add some degree of ordering strategy to nutrition companies.

 

 

 

Something like:

 

Cardio Supplements

 

IF Conditioning <= 80

 

THEN StaminaSuppMaxLevelEffective = 140

 

ELSE StaminaSuppMaxLevelEffective = 9999999999999 (because quality caps should be lifted to infinity)

 

Ignoring the part where you have an uncapped supp benefit for a minute (which I disagree with, but can see your point to some extent) I don't think this is the way to do it. The way Mike has coaches working relative to fighter skills is a better model IMO (where a lower quality fighter gets the same benefit from a lesser coach, but a higher quality fighter still needs an elite coach) but how the fuck you make that work with recovery is beyond me though, maybe relative to the fighters overall skill set or something but it'd suck to have to work that out for players.

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I think laundering has been adequately addressed now. Probably don't need price fixing if other measures are taken. Just my thought on it.

 

 

 

+1 Varied supps will help expand the market and provide new money sinks.

 

 

 

+1 same as above, I would limit it to 3 supps at once and make the increased speed of consumption at least triple when taking 3 at a time. So a 21 day supply of three different supps (63 days of supps total) would only last 7 days when used simultaneously.

 

 

Hype revisions:

 

I would allow company Hype to give a small morale boost when a fighter is sponsored as well. The higher the Hype plus the better the sponsorship offer, the higher the boost. Fighters who are given good sponsorships from well known companies should be happy about it.

 

Allow Hype to have a tangible effect with nutrition companies by allowing them the enter "partnerships" with orgs. High Hype supp companies give ratings boosts to partner org events and their product gets featured (with hyperlink) in every ToTT (not displacing individual fighter sponsorships) and small cut of org even profits.

 

 

Lastly:

 

Remove the supplement quality cap. Make it unlimited but keep the geometric increase in research costs. If a company wants to spend more money than currently exists in the Tycooniverse on research, let them.

 

 

I'd have to say Greywar has some very good suggestions here and has my full support! I hope they make it in the game.

 

The only thing I'd add to this is that I would like to see supplements give a boost to reducing skill attrition. I think somebody else mentioned something similar in this thread already, but I wanted to elaborate on it. Make it a small (temporary) boost to the maintenance trigger for the particular physical the supplement helps. Or in the case of Recovery Supps, an even smaller boost spread across all physicals. You could add a little blue bar at the end of the green bar to show the boost and make sure people know it's temporary. I would say stat specific supplements should give 3 days worth of buffer added to that specific skills maintenance trigger. This probably won't have much of an affect on newer fighters as most of them will still be grey in a lot of their physicals, so I would suggest that any physical that can't be lost (listed as grey bar in maintenance) perhaps be given a slight boost in effectiveness of the supplement and show the grey bar as orange so you know it's happening.

 

--

 

Mickey

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The way Mike has coaches working relative to fighter skills is a better model IMO (where a lower quality fighter gets the same benefit from a lesser coach, but a higher quality fighter still needs an elite coach) but how the fuck you make that work with recovery is beyond me though, maybe relative to the fighters overall skill set or something but it'd suck to have to work that out for players.

 

That is exactly what I laid out up there actually or at least what I meant. Lower level players get max benefit from lower level supps and won't benefit any more from the major high dollar ones (making the development of lower quality supps an economically viable option). Higher level guys would need the best quality supps to get max benefit. Same way the coaching etc works.

 

This would make researching and selling say a 140Q supp actually worth the time and effortas it would cater to a different market segment.

 

I agree that decreasing supplement duration ends up just being a money fungibility issue but coupled with the above suggestion it would not screw over new players simply because they could get a good effect from lower quality supps. At the high end it ends up churning cash which is always a problem here as the money supply has gotten so large that fighters are swimming in money after just 5 or 6 fights.

 

When you add in the forthcoming cash vacuums like private jets, doctors, etc... the money supply should tighten (as long as the industries are mostly computer run) and make money matter a lot more than it currently does.

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I'd have to say Greywar has some very good suggestions here and has my full support! I hope they make it in the game.

 

The only thing I'd add to this is that I would like to see supplements give a boost to reducing skill attrition. I think somebody else mentioned something similar in this thread already, but I wanted to elaborate on it. Make it a small (temporary) boost to the maintenance trigger for the particular physical the supplement helps. Or in the case of Recovery Supps, an even smaller boost spread across all physicals. You could add a little blue bar at the end of the green bar to show the boost and make sure people know it's temporary. I would say stat specific supplements should give 3 days worth of buffer added to that specific skills maintenance trigger. This probably won't have much of an affect on newer fighters as most of them will still be grey in a lot of their physicals, so I would suggest that any physical that can't be lost (listed as grey bar in maintenance) perhaps be given a slight boost in effectiveness of the supplement and show the grey bar as orange so you know it's happening.

 

--

 

Mickey

 

 

I would simply like to see a separate supplement to combat tickers.

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Nutrition Companies can have 3 or 4 partners and a way of ending the impasse where a previous partner keeps stock and prevents new partnerships but also a need to prevent a Gym ending partnerships at a whim and far too often (a limit of partners across a year?)

 

The likelihood of a gyms fighters using a supplement whilst training to increase to give more business to the nutrition company.

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That is exactly what I laid out up there actually or at least what I meant. Lower level players get max benefit from lower level supps and won't benefit any more from the major high dollar ones (making the development of lower quality supps an economically viable option). Higher level guys would need the best quality supps to get max benefit. Same way the coaching etc works.

 

I may be reading it wrong, but I was reading it as 'if your fighter has x cardio, then he can only get a supp benefit of y' instead of 'if your fighter has x cardio then a supp benefit of y will give him max benefit' which isn't how training works.

 

 

When you add in the forthcoming cash vacuums like private jets, doctors, etc... the money supply should tighten (as long as the industries are mostly computer run) and make money matter a lot more than it currently does.

 

I'd actually like to see more variety in user run companies, regardless of what changes are made to existing companies there can only be so many companies of a certain type that will be profitable, so unless more company types are created some users will have to go without making any actual profit from companies, which is a negative IMO.

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Erik, you must have missed the part where I also want a drop of almost 50% in nutrition ordering cap, greatly limiting the amount that companies can sell. The ammount of nutrition companies that would be able to spring up would be crazy. I think it's also interesting that you thing these companies would spring up out of nowhere... where would they come from? The user base hasn't grown in quite some time. That means the new companies would have to come from existing ones, taking some of the stress off of the other ones.

 

Have you read about new managers having a hell of a time signing fighters for an org? It's because orgs are the only company that can be run for a profit right now. Every single company is almost impossible to start up right now because of the current situation. I would also like to see cloths last for less time, making more clothing companies profit and letting clothing owners be more than "starving artists".

 

You say it kicks noobs in the ass but it really doesn't, they all fight each other and are on a level playing field. How are a group of players on a level playing field being put down any further. The difference between a new player and an old player is training and time, not access to a 160 recovery over a 150 or 145 recovery.

 

What about stamina and muscle supps? A fighter doesn't need to buy more than 2 for their entire career. You want to know what really kicks a noob in the ass? Making one of these because most cities have very few of them only to find out that nobody buys them.

 

I understand, you are arguing about things you know nothing about. You don't understand the games economy in the least bit but feel the need to chime up about it anyways. It's cool, a majority of the managers in this game don't understand the games economics, they just usually don't talk about shit they know nothing about.

 

And for more companies... I hear that they are in the plans. With the fix's I've proposed more than enough time would created for expansion of companies, which would set back the "nothing would change" theme you seem to preach. It would also allow for new players to start and get the money they need to build a proper project that you and I have had the time and cash to build.

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Erik, you must have missed the part where I also want a drop of almost 50% in nutrition ordering cap, greatly limiting the amount that companies can sell. The ammount of nutrition companies that would be able to spring up would be crazy. I think it's also interesting that you thing these companies would spring up out of nowhere... where would they come from? The user base hasn't grown in quite some time. That means the new companies would have to come from existing ones, taking some of the stress off of the other ones.

 

The user base doesn't need to grow, there are a shitload of VIP users who don't have companies or who already have a nutrition company (or even a laundry only clothing company) and don't bother researching anything beyond a laundry product due to the current situation. Combine that with the fact that nutrition takes absolutely zero effort to run (assuming you have the start up cash, which isn't hard to get if you've been playing for a while) and there is no doubt that if you cut the supply of every company down by 50% all you do is lead to 2x as many companies cropping up, because there are plenty of people (and alliances) who could easily do this.

 

Nutrition is essentially zero effort input for tycoon $, as long as there is money to be made in it people will be flooding the market trying to get some of the action.

 

As I've said: your solution doesn't work in the long term.

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As I've said: your solution doesn't work in the long term.

well none of the systems are exactly infinite, except for orgs. because orgs are the only ones that have to constantly compete for automated sales.

 

just look at the timeline for all the companies. they are all dead ended:

 

gyms - you build a gym up buying decent coaches. then replace with better coaches. then with better coaches. then with better coaches. until one day you finally have 12 elites or whatever your final formula works out to be. there's many differnt strategies that you can implement to get there. but the final result is a company that runs itself. you only change equipment

 

nutrition companies - you start out with decent supplements. through time you build them up to be better and better. til finally you've got all 160's. there's many different strategies that you can implement to get there. but then the company runs itself pretty much. you only buy new stock

 

that's why orgs are the biggest draw in the game even before money laundering. because they offer the most competition amongst themselves. even though it's all automated sales. it's "my automated sales against your automated sales". that's fun in my opinion. it's indirect - direct competition. i compete with you over in game fighters to get out of game consumers

 

i dont see any reason why the game cant do automated sales for gyms, nutriton and clothing companies? it would make the day to day of running those companies exciting. it would bring out so many more aspects into the game as well. right now it's a dead end loop for sales with these companies. it's backwards. the way mikes got it set up the game cant support but only just a few companies which in the long run kills his vip potential. he could potentially give more fighter slots and make it possible for more potential companies. but that's a bad idea i think. that's only hiding the problem. it would do nothing to fix the problem going forward.

 

it's like sponsorships. that could be one of the funnest and most intense activities in this game. but it isnt because it's not setup right. currently sponsorships mean nothing. but in real life it's probly one of the biggest things for a fighter. the reason why it doesnt work in this game is because companies are trying to sell to actual fighters. the actual fighters should be what convinces the automated consumers to by the products, through sponsorship. it's basically the same concept that we have now. accept you're not trying to get actual fighters to buy your clothes. just to wear your clothes. not to buy your supplements. just use your supplements, or use your gym. the hype/popularity system is already in place. all it needs is a switchover - the more hype promoting your product, the more automated sales you get - just like orgs

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right now the game is in low gear. a fighter only buys supps/clothing every 14 days. so that puts a limit on how many sales you're gonna do. then when you figure that many fighters have bought enough clothes/supps to last a lifetime and a lot of players dont even buy any stock to begin with. so the sales that a company gets are thinly spread out from the beginning.

 

but if a company was competing for sponsorships of those fighters to get automated sales then it brings in an all new dynamic. you have older companies competing over the big name fighters. you have new fighters competing over the newest fighters coming into the game. it's an everyday experience. it would increase networking and realism. it would increase the enjoyment rate for everyone because they get more activity and competition out of it....as an org owner i get a big kick out of signing a hyped fighter. it'd be no different for clothing or supplement company for signing a big sponsorhip deal. but the automated sales is what drives it. right now, just trying to sale to actual in game fighters doesnt drive it very much because they dont buy often enough - introduce sponsorhips/automated sales into the game and weekly/monthly reports of it and you'd see a huge influx of excitement into the game. i guarantee it

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but if a company was competing for sponsorships of those fighters to get automated sales then it brings in an all new dynamic. you have older companies competing over the big name fighters. you have new fighters competing over the newest fighters coming into the game. it's an everyday experience. it would increase networking and realism. it would increase the enjoyment rate for everyone because they get more activity and competition out of it....as an org owner i get a big kick out of signing a hyped fighter. it'd be no different for clothing or supplement company for signing a big sponsorhip deal. but the automated sales is what drives it. right now, just trying to sale to actual in game fighters doesnt drive it very much because they dont buy often enough - introduce sponsorhips/automated sales into the game and weekly/monthly reports of it and you'd see a huge influx of excitement into the game. i guarantee it

 

 

Maybe tie clothing/nutrition company hype to their ability to purchase stock or something, or have hype generate some level of cash from "civilian sales" (i.e. automated) - I'm sure companies like Xyience do not make even a remotely noteworthy portion of their income from fighters in the UFC or pro MMA in general but rather make their money from the Joe Sixpacks who buy their products.

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I'd like to reiterate my strong opposition to nutrition changes that make things much more of a hassle for everyone. Lowering nutrition length or preventing people from stockpiling supplements just creates a new chore for everyone. If there are changes, they should make things more fun and interesting for the average player.

 

right now the game is in low gear. a fighter only buys supps/clothing every 14 days. so that puts a limit on how many sales you're gonna do. then when you figure that many fighters have bought enough clothes/supps to last a lifetime and a lot of players dont even buy any stock to begin with. so the sales that a company gets are thinly spread out from the beginning.

 

but if a company was competing for sponsorships of those fighters to get automated sales then it brings in an all new dynamic. you have older companies competing over the big name fighters. you have new fighters competing over the newest fighters coming into the game. it's an everyday experience. it would increase networking and realism. it would increase the enjoyment rate for everyone because they get more activity and competition out of it....as an org owner i get a big kick out of signing a hyped fighter. it'd be no different for clothing or supplement company for signing a big sponsorhip deal. but the automated sales is what drives it. right now, just trying to sale to actual in game fighters doesnt drive it very much because they dont buy often enough - introduce sponsorhips/automated sales into the game and weekly/monthly reports of it and you'd see a huge influx of excitement into the game. i guarantee it

 

This is a fantastic idea.

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I haven't read through all the replies but

 

Something that I don't think anyone's ever suggested.

How about the ability for each store to have one speciality supp where they have a +5 increase in effectiveness?

 

The problem is an over-saturation on Recovery. So I'm not sure this will help. That's 95% of sales anyways.

 

 

I've been in favor of:

 

Price Floors and

Expiration Dates - Guys are stock piled. I know my whole stable is good for at least a year.

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Fix shipping and you'll simultaneously help out clothing companies, too. Turn the global market that we currently have into local and regional ones. At this point, there is really no reason for more than one supplement company to even exist. Anyone can get anything they want in 3 days. The only reason to ever buy local is if a fighter is created in a different location than the manager (and then only one purchase is necessary since it takes just 3 days to send him the best from manager supply) or the manager has just signed up for the game and has no current stock.

This will also address many people's complaints of price floors. Currently, every supplement company competes with every other one so people can choose the cheapest regardless of its location. If shipping times were to actually be implemented in a way that resembles common sense, each region of the world would be competing with far fewer other companies and prices could then be altered accordingly. It is unfair that a new manager in Australia has to price his product to compete with the best managers in Nevada.

Since beginning this game, I have never understood the reason shipping is the way it is. And I have still never heard reasoning why it persists as it does or was made this way at all.

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i dont understand what you mean? why would you need to buy 7 times as many supplements?

 

because if the suggestion is to lower the amount of supps you get from one "bottle" from 14 days worth to 2 days worth, then you would need to buy them 7 times more often to have the same amount (7x2=14)

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I have to say I do like the idea of 'automated sales' based on the hype of the company which would come from a combination of the hype of their sponsored fighters and their sales.

 

This could also impact the price that 'automated sales' still get bought at, e.g. the higher the company hype may mean selling at $50 instead of $20. Company owners would then have to balance what they set their prices at in order to make the most of the automated sales while still getting sales from the tycoon players.

 

Again you'd be balancing what you set in terms of sales against how much you offer in sponsorships. Is the Top 100 P4P buy worth that 5k when he has a tough fight coming up which could hit his hype, or do you go after a few 10000 P4P guys and hedge your bets that one of them gains some hype

 

I think there would be a lot of positives to it, it would give company owners a lot more to think about and things to think about each week instead of the mundane, research product/design shirt, put on sale, do a bit of advertising and hope for the best, restock every now and then, which is more or less the system now. People would have to decide whether to blow some cash on a few big time sponsorships so they can set high prices, or go for the low side of the market, slowly increasing their hype with all the sales in order to charge higher prices in the long term.

 

Then there's the added bonus of people then fighting over sponsorships, giving people more reasons to check in regularly and not look at the screen in shock when you actually recieve a sponsorship offer. As mentioned this could help improve networking and help the game to grow.

 

I guess the downside obviously is it would create new money which isn't nessicarily needed but then what else are you going to run a company for if it's not to try and make some cash, fun at first I guess but as mentioned it gets pretty mundane after a while, maybe this is something which could make it a bit more interesting.

 

Also not against lowering the lasting date of supps/quality loss of clothing.

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make it so your fighter automatically uses the right supplement based on his training session. for example if your fighter is training cardio in the morning and resting in the pm he would use stamina supp in the morning and reduce fatigue supp in the afternoon and constantly switch accordingly as long as he has supp in his possesion. this way if you cannot get on 1 or 2 days your fighters dont suffer

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the automated sales for nutrients is a great idea and could also be used for clothing and for gyms.

 

BUT and it's a big but there are some problems with automated sales.

 

The last thing the game needs is more money magically appearing into the economy so the other money sinks would need to be in place to try and get rid of this cash as soon as it enters.

 

It also doesn't help with supply and demand so that would need to be incorporated.

 

Automated sales tied into sponsorships deals done?? Would be very easy to abuse.. I'm going to offload a stack of cash at a mates Nutrient store or clothing store for that matter, he kicks it back in sponsorships and next thing you know my mate is getting a nice big boost in his automated sales.

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the automated sales for nutrients is a great idea and could also be used for clothing and for gyms.

 

BUT and it's a big but there are some problems with automated sales.

 

The last thing the game needs is more money magically appearing into the economy so the other money sinks would need to be in place to try and get rid of this cash as soon as it enters.

 

It also doesn't help with supply and demand so that would need to be incorporated.

 

Automated sales tied into sponsorships deals done?? Would be very easy to abuse.. I'm going to offload a stack of cash at a mates Nutrient store or clothing store for that matter, he kicks it back in sponsorships and next thing you know my mate is getting a nice big boost in his automated sales.

i would have it so that a fighter can only use whatever he's been sponsored by. it's only realistic. but he gets it for free to. obviously

 

 

i also would have it so that fighters money is fighters money. we are ONLY MANAGERS of these fighters. we get our 10% cut. that's it. i wish there was a distinction between that in this game. it's not though. same with how ppl just move money in and out of companies in this game. nothing at all about it is realistic. if somebody did that in real life they'd pay dearly in taxes or go to jail - i think that the game should be just like real life. if you own a company then you still are on a salary. if you pull the money out beyond what your set salary is, then you get charged a penalty each time you do it ---- perhaps there needs to be a tax season every 3 months in this game. it keeps track of how much money you've made/pulled from your company. if you've made too much, YOU PAY

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i would have it so that a fighter can only use whatever he's been sponsored by. it's only realistic. but he gets it for free to. obviously

 

 

i also would have it so that fighters money is fighters money. we are ONLY MANAGERS of these fighters. we get our 10% cut. that's it. i wish there was a distinction between that in this game. it's not though. same with how ppl just move money in and out of companies in this game. nothing at all about it is realistic. if somebody did that in real life they'd pay dearly in taxes or go to jail - i think that the game should be just like real life. if you own a company then you still are on a salary. if you pull the money out beyond what your set salary is, then you get charged a penalty each time you do it ---- perhaps there needs to be a tax season every 3 months in this game. it keeps track of how much money you've made/pulled from your company. if you've made too much, YOU PAY

 

Next thing you know we will need to be paying real life accountants to keep track of our in game money. Can't say I like any part of that idea. There is a point where realism needs to be put aside so the game is enjoyable.

 

Fighters money is fighters money - If that was the case then whenever I was signing the contract for my fighters I would ask for a 1/1/??? contract and have the signing bonus, base pay and part of the win bonus transferred straight to my manager account via a manager to manager transfer, hell I could just say if you want my fighter for 4 fights sign him to a 1/1/1 contract and pay me x amount of dollars for his services. Meanin my fighter fights for peanuts but i will pay his way.. A slave as such.

 

l so "real life" fighters etc may "endorse" even accept sponsorship for a product, but never use it.. So why should just because a fighter is sponsored by a nutrient company he be locked in to that nutrient companies products. Yeah sure if you are sponsored you need to be seen in your sponsors clothes, but n the same token that's only at events.. You certainly don't need to be wearing them while sitting at home or doing your shopping etc.

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i also would have it so that fighters money is fighters money. we are ONLY MANAGERS of these fighters. we get our 10% cut. that's it. i wish there was a distinction between that in this game. it's not though.

 

That would end private gyms. You think a guy like Rampage pays only 600/week for a camp? That's the difference. IRL, fighters can spend a ton on sparring partners and personal coaches

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I think the importance of sponsorships definitely needs addressing. The idea of automatic sales (to Joe Sixpack) based of hype is very interesting,, but I'm afraid it would cause a snowball effect of Created money (much like the united states federal reserve ) and at a certain point...inflation (even with money sinks) would get out of control.

 

The problem is money would be coming into the game from "nowhere".

For now we have to put aside the notion of money sinks. Those are ideas... which will likely need fleshing out,, much like this thread..which has been active for 12 days,, and a consensus and implmetation is likely weeks away.... So future money sinks are well in the distance... Let's work in the NOW .

 

For starters,,, the variety of supplments.. How Far can we Expand this? Stamina,Muscle,Recovery,Weight Loss and Gain. Let's Face it.. Recovery is all that's REALLY important 90% of the time....But could we Expand the variety of supplments, and then force fighters to gain certain "Tolerance" to supplements,,, A ticker,,, much like the training one.

 

For example ...Here are some real life supplments whose effects could be transitioned into the game

 

Glucosamine:

Effectively reduces joint pain, helps with repairing tissue damage.

maybe it slows down the effects of ageing while taking it.. maybe a 30 year old takes it for 4 days leading up to a fight, he'll get a small agile,flex,speed boost....

 

Ginkgo Biloba:

Better concentration, bringing more oxygen to the brain.

maybe a sup that will help us learn a little faster while taking it

 

L-Lysine:

Promotes bone growth and healthy skin.

a sup that maybe reduced our chance to cut a little. maybe I'm fighting an elbows guy

 

St John's wort:

widely known as an herbal treatment for depression.

maybe a confidence supp

 

Acetyl-Carnitine (ALC):

Prevents reduction of testosterone,

what if we had a supp that made us more "aggresive, or confident while using it?"

 

See what I'm saying is,,, there's a chance we can have the ticker system implmented for our Supps... (only if we had a bigger variety)

and maybe some of these supps can help some "behind the scenes" stuff....hidden tickers if you will...

 

I dunno to be honest i just re read this,, and I kind of hate it.............. but I did all this typing ,, so maybe somone will get a good idea out of this.. so i will post it anyway

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