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Everything you need to know about learning speed


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#1 VeikkoK

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:01 PM

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Ok, in recent weeks I think I've seen these same questions asked about 20 times, so maybe there should be a sticky or something about this?
 
What is learning speed?
 
In broad sense the learning speed refers to fighters ability to response to training, and it is based on the value of the hidden skill, fighters age, energy and morale levels, quality of the coach or sparring partners, class sizes and the current skill level. But the main interest is usually in the value of hidden skill, which is a constant value and determines whether the fighter is capable of learning things fast, given that his training is planned properly. By ticking "fast learner" in fighter creation you get boost for this skill, but other than that, you cannot influence fighters learning speed hidden.
 
In short, usually when talking about learning speed we are talking only about the hidden skill related to the learning speed.
 
What learning speed is not?
 
Learning speed and fighters intelligence are two completely different things. Intelligence (related to "knows how to adapt his game plan") can be tested with IQ tests (can be won on Spin and Win and sometimes you get random test via mail or when travelling with jet), and refers to "fight IQ", i.e. how well the figher responds to things happening during fight.
 
In short, learning speed has nothing to do with IQ or intelligence.
 
How to test fighters learning speed?
 
  1. You need to have a VIP status in order to test the learning speed accurately. Check below for non-VIP possibility.
  2. Install Greasemonkey add-on for Firefox (there are similar add-ons for other browsers but there are reports that they might not work properly for everyone): https://addons.mozil...n/greasemonkey/
  3. Install TycoonTools Greasemonkey scripts (Only Skill Snapshot Stat Extractor is needed for this, but other might come handy also): http://widing.arkku.net/tycoontools/
  4. Your fighter needs to have some secondary skill where you didn't assign any points in fighter creation and which you have not trained at all (remember that for example training clinchwork will give small gains to elbows also etc). Assign your fighter to train that skill in 1on1 training session with Elite coach. Make sure your fighter have 100% energy and morale.
  5. After training, go to Fighter skills snapshot page (http://www.mmatycoon...atssnapshot.php), select the skill in question and if you have appropriate Greasemonkey scripts installed and enabled, you should see a numeric value under the skill snapshot bar. This value is the current skill level of your fighter in that skill.
  6. Skills where you did not assign any points at fighter creation start at 1.95. It is believed that the maximum skill value you can have after one training session is 7.5 (useless++). Lowest value I have encountered is 3.9, but my guesstimate would be 3.5 for lower limit. Depending on your preferences, you could think that fighters with learning speed under 5 (useless-) are not good enough (some people use 4.5 and other 5.5 etc), unless other hiddens of that fighter are very good. Unless the learning speed is very low, like under 4, I would still test the fighting abilities of everybody (i.e. see how they perform in few QFC's and what does their ToTT say) before sacking them.
  7. Note that above values are for 18 year old (or younger), for older fighters you should expect smaller values, although I do not have experience to tell how much is good enough for example 25 year olds. And also, if you have only 2on1 training available, that shouldn't make huge difference, so you still get good approximation of the learning speed that way. And if you have already trained the skill little (say the skill value is 2.5), you can still compute the difference (new value - old value) and see how much that is compared to maximum gain of 5.55, but note that with high level skills the learning speed decreases.

 

Other issues:

 

  • For non-VIPs there is an approximate method for determining the learning speed: The pop from useless to abysmal in two sessions, is combined gain of 8.05 points,  ie. over 4 points on one session. That would equal learning speed at least 1.95->6, which is rather good. If the fighter doesn't pop even in three sessions, he is a very slow learner. Between that, depends how tight criterias you have.

  • Learning speed is constant from until fighter hits the age of 18, and after that it declines gradually when your fighters age.

  • For 25 year olds (or 19-24 for that matter) there's not public information available about range of learning speed. I've heard somebody had learning speed of 7 as 25 year old but I doubt it. If anybody makes 25 year olds and wants to share what kind of learning speeds they have gotten, please let me know and I'll add the range here.

 

 

 

I'll add other info if something comes up.

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#2 DeadDisney

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:05 PM

Nice of you to add this for the noobs, VK.


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#3 ScoobyAli

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:31 PM

thanks man,the scripts was what i needed


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#4 Mr.J

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 12:31 PM

very well compiled.
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#5 Manta

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:30 AM

Nice :) I already knew that, but i had to do a lost of research to put the pieces together...


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#6 gwad12345

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:44 PM

Thank you, although we're still going to have 2 posts a day ask if IQ and learning speed are related..


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#7 warlord

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:47 PM

+1


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#8 Ramirez

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 04:51 AM

great work Veikkok! +1


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#9

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 06:58 AM

Nice! Much needed though. I have seen before that 2 on 1 training is 30% reduced in effectiveness though...so that would mean the numbers being pretty far off. A fighter who would have gone from 1.95 to 6.95 (5 pt gain) would only go from 1.95 to 5.45 (3.5 point gain). That's the difference if you're testing it btwn a mediocre learning speed and great speed...
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#10 VeikkoK

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 07:07 AM

Nice! Much needed though. I have seen before that 2 on 1 training is 30% reduced in effectiveness though...so that would mean the numbers being pretty far off. A fighter who would have gone from 1.95 to 6.95 (5 pt gain) would only go from 1.95 to 5.45 (3.5 point gain). That's the difference if you're testing it btwn a mediocre learning speed and great speed...

 

It's certainly not that much nowdays, at least when the starting value of that skill is very low like useless. For example one of my fighters trained clinchwork on 2on1 and went from 1.95 -> 6.45, and then takedowns in 1on1 session and went 2.1 -> 6.6, so the gains were identical. This of course also depends on the training partner, wiki states that if the other fighter in training is better than you, you train even more efficiently (marginally) than on 1on1 training.


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#11 shaman

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 12:59 PM

skill snapshot requires vip... that said, the other greasemonkey scripts there are also helpful, so thanks.


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#12 VeikkoK

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:05 AM

skill snapshot requires vip... that said, the other greasemonkey scripts there are also helpful, so thanks.

 

Yes the VIP is really a must for many things. I'm not sure is the Tycoon Assistant with --, -, + and ++ ticks currently available for everyone? If so, you can get somekind of idea of learning speed with those, you should be moving from useless-- to useless+ if your fighter is good learner.

 

Another option is to train useless skill twice, and you should pop to abysmal after the second session.


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#13 gwad12345

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:17 AM

 

Yes the VIP is really a must for many things. I'm not sure is the Tycoon Assistant with --, -, + and ++ ticks currently available for everyone? If so, you can get somekind of idea of learning speed with those, you should be moving from useless-- to useless+ if your fighter is good learner.

 

Another option is to train useless skill twice, and you should pop to abysmal after the second session.

Tycoon Assistant is only VIP


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#14 VeikkoK

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:39 PM

That's what I assumed. The second option is still valid though. The pop from useless to abysmal in two sessions, is combined gain of 8.05 points,  ie. over 4 points on one session. That would equal learning speed at least 1.95->6, which is rather good. If the fighter doesn't pop even in three sessions, he is a very slow learner. Between that, depends how tight criterias you have.


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#15

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:07 PM

great work. thanks for that.


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#16 VeikkoK

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 11:40 AM

Updated the original post with few additional points. If somebody tests his 25 year old fighters, please let us know what kind of learning speeds you have seen. :)


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#17

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 02:45 PM

I'm a VIP who uses the non-VIP method. I don't care about the specific learning speed number. As long as they are not extremely slow I'm fine with it.


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#18 thb

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

I'm a VIP who uses the non-VIP method. I don't care about the specific learning speed number. As long as they are not extremely slow I'm fine with it.

 

I don't pay that much attention to the learning speed either, I just keep track of pops and depops daily just to be safe 


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#19 VeikkoK

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:17 AM

Okay, so I tested the training speed of my 18 year old fighter who is about two months old again. When created, he went from 1.95 to 6.9. Now he went from 1.95 to 6.75 with full energy and almost full morale (after training session it was 98.99 %, forgot to check it before training). So either the morale has a huge effect on learning speed, or the learning speed decreases gradually by age, and not stepwise (drops at birthdays)


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#20 DeadDisney

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 02:45 PM

Okay, so I tested the training speed of my 18 year old fighter who is about two months old again. When created, he went from 1.95 to 6.9. Now he went from 1.95 to 6.75 with full energy and almost full morale (after training session it was 98.99 %, forgot to check it before training). So either the morale has a huge effect on learning speed, or the learning speed decreases gradually by age, and not stepwise (drops at birthdays)

 

I'm pretty sure it's the morale. That drop seems consistent with my morale/learning speed experiment.


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