Fight Engine Discussion

[Rambo]

I haven't said a word, mostly because I'm half way out of the game anyways but here are some things that should really be done:

 

1. Primes should be a collective skill of your related secondary skills. This means you can't be elite in BJJ if you have no subs and similar on M/T if you have no elbow's/knee's and wrestling if you have no TD or GnP.

 

A. That in it's self will stop at lot of things people complain about, you can't have elite wrestling on a brawl and sprawl guy to help defend takedowns because you can't be elite wrestling without TD's and GnP and all of it's associated secondaries. it's gonna be hard to stop TD's if you don't have them or GnP just do to the wrestling prime. Say if you have only elite TDD and elite Grap D like many sprawl and brawl stand up guys do, then your only gonna be exceptional in the wrestling prime, How far will that go in allowing actual grapplers to get TD's more often?

 

B. It would make match up much more easy for orgs as you have a better idea of there skills if the secondary skills sets the prime value.

 

C. Under this system, Sparring can't add points to your prime directly only to all associated secondaries sort of like it does now but no added points to the prime. Your prime will be determined by that secondaries (Obviously, this would need to be decided about and I have no idea or claim to know what levels of secs total should be what level of prime)

 

D. We all know being elite in a prime purely for a defensive purpose is an advantage and this would stop that.

 

 

My 2 cents and I will shut up

 

If you do a physical cap, for the love of God start small as you can always go more if needed. But I think it's going to hurt more then it helps if you go to far. I'm Not keen on the whole Idea of it to start with.

 

 

For the record: most logical thing I've read in the entire thread.

[predicted]

 

as for cardio not affecting training something needs to show difference in who can train harder longer than others -- but i think this could be done with supps making a bigger or smaller impact depending on quality --- i just dont feel a fighter with competent cardio could train as much or as long as a fighter with elite cardio

Isnt the main problem that while thats realistic, it would create cookie cutter builds and now solve anything? Now everyone will need elite or close to elite cardio and the rest of the physicals will look pretty similar.

[kdmh74]

Wow, Dinooo's account has been deleted. Shame to see him leave, he had a great understanding of the fight engine. I wont be surprised if a couple follow him in leaving tbh.

I think Dean Sutherland has gone too

[bjornmma1]

I think Dean Sutherland has gone too

That is him, Dinooo.

[kdmh74]

That is him, Dinooo.

Ahhh.

[shortfuse122829]

 

 

A lot of us down here have been saying the same shit to our friends on fb and shit like that.

 

 

 

 

 

I think Remarkable across the board is a bit too low for a physical skill cap. I think Wonderful would be a bit more reasonable to a degree. Demetrious Johnson would be what? At least Sensational Agility, Exceptional Speed, Wonderful Flexibility, Remarkable Str, Elite cardio, Exceptional Balance ? Even if you knock a couple of those exceptionals down to wonderfuls, it's hard to argue that.

 

 

Are height / weight builds going to impact physicals at all or is it just a hard cap? There's a lot of variables here. Not really keen on the idea... but I already know, before these changes are even implemented, just like I knew how useless escapes would be before they were implemented (and changed ala instant-escapes), that the sprawl and brawl - punch technique no kicks - counter build will be OP, and wrestlers will be even more fucked than before.

 

 

Glad I'm not the only one who's seeing right through the holes to come to that conclusion

[kdmh74]

Im not experienced enough in the game to have any type of say/input in how the game develops but one thing I think should happen (if possible), is any managers who have exceeded the physicals cap, they should be given the option to distribute their physical points how they see fit for their fighters, rather than be stuck with fighters whos physicals are not where they need to be (although they would be if the cap was not introduced) to suit the build they were working on. I myself have a fighter whos flexibility i chose to build up last (due to class sizes at the gym). His other physicals are between 130-150 yet flexibility is the main physical he needs to suit the primaries and secondaries I have trained him in. His flexibility is at 80. He is now pretty much useless if I cannot distribute the lower capped physicals as I would have done. As well as managers leaving the game, I think were going to see so so many fighters released.

[Rastaman]

I need a clear answer: what will happen to a fighter who's physicals are already above that new cap? he will lose that time he spent to train those physicals or those points will be moved to his other skills/redistribute in some way?

[EzekelRAGE]

I need a clear answer: what will happen to a fighter who's physicals are already above that new cap? he will lose that time he spent to train those physicals or those points will be moved to his other skills/redistribute in some way?

Its in post 347 here.

[Rastaman]

thans Ezekel

 

People who haven't trained their physicals up yet will be at an advantage in terms of wasted physical training time. That's cool for them. It'll also apply to all future fighters so if you haven't benefitted from it this time, you will next time.

 

so.. do I understand correctly.. it's basically like 'fuck you, it's your problem that you have been training physicals before that upcoming change?' and that's it?

[shockg]

Would a simple solution be to let all other stats but cardio get reduced? It would solve the lhw/hw energy rape problem that I think will occur. The hw rape problem could be fixed with more tweaks, but why? Seems the energy battle is already in a good spot right now and that is mostly based around cardio.

 

Did someone already talk about this? I can't look through the whole thread atm. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

[Rocket]

This thread was advertised as a discussion? We discuss mike dictates...you can fool some people some of the time but you can't fool all the people all the time.

 

I see many valid opinions and ideas here from veteran managers and even new managers, I then see mike saying never mind all that this is what's happening...it'd a shame really.

 

I'm a noob I'll be here after the changes and will adapt to them but when so many managers are giving opinions for them to be shot down because mike has his mind set is a real down point for me.

 

It's mikes game he can and will do as he pleases but these managers have been lining his pocket for years surely the last he could do is take a step back put it on ice a while and have proper discussions and testing periods?

[edwardsfan]

The inevitable problem will be

 

140

1

140

140

140

140

 

for physicals.

 

Luckily you guys have me here to hold your hands. Because it's an easy fix. Expand elite beyond 150 and it solves everything. Have it go to 160 or 180. Preferably 200.

 

At that point you will get true diversity. It's the only way (That ppl will accept).

 

You've got 2 options. Lower the cap down to around 50%. Or raise the limit on how high it can go beyond 150.

 

The key is you've got to find the comfort zone between the high point of elite, and the average point of all 6 combined.

 

Then you have to understand that flexibility is viewed as the least valuable physical. So it will be neglected. So you need to provide value for it. All physicals need to have a strong enough value to promote points being given to it. Even if just 70 or 80.

 

Ex: you could increase the effect flexibility has on striking defense. Bobbing, weaving, etc.

[edwardsfan]

But if you do raise the cap beyond 150 you have to reduce the training curve. You can't make it so god damn slow that ppl waste all their fucking training sessions trying to get to it. You got to remember the goal is to promote diversity. Not minimize it.

[edwardsfan]

 

as for cardio not affecting training something needs to show difference in who can train harder longer than others -- but i think this could be done with supps making a bigger or smaller impact depending on quality --- i just dont feel a fighter with competent cardio could train as much or as long as a fighter with elite cardio

Mike Tyson did not have great cardio. He trained hard and often.

 

It's almost like we're mixing words between cardio and endurance

[MichioKaku]

But if you do raise the cap beyond 150 you have to reduce the training curve. You can't make it so god damn slow that ppl waste all their fucking training sessions trying to get to it. You got to remember the goal is to promote diversity. Not minimize it.

I think that is what he meant by raising it. If its pointless to try then people will not try or spend 10 years of a fights life training for a few fights. This would also let people who have spent long months training above the new proposed cap the ability to keep what they have and not feel like they or other managers wasted time.

[duphus]

The inevitable problem will be

 

140

1

140

140

140

140

 

for physicals.

 

Luckily you guys have me here to hold your hands. Because it's an easy fix. Expand elite beyond 150 and it solves everything. Have it go to 160 or 180. Preferably 200.

 

At that point you will get true diversity. It's the only way (That ppl will accept).

 

You've got 2 options. Lower the cap down to around 50%. Or raise the limit on how high it can go beyond 150.

 

The key is you've got to find the comfort zone between the high point of elite, and the average point of all 6 combined.

 

Then you have to understand that flexibility is viewed as the least valuable physical. So it will be neglected. So you need to provide value for it. All physicals need to have a strong enough value to promote points being given to it. Even if just 70 or 80.

 

Ex: you could increase the effect flexibility has on striking defense. Bobbing, weaving, etc.

 

You do those physicals, I will beat you almost every time! I really hope guys try that, because I guarantee a few managers already know how to beat that pretty easily

[JLP]

Would a simple solution be to let all other stats but cardio get reduced? It would solve the lhw/hw energy rape problem that I think will occur. The hw rape problem could be fixed with more tweaks, but why? Seems the energy battle is already in a good spot right now and that is mostly based around cardio.

 

Did someone already talk about this? I can't look through the whole thread atm. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

I'm not sold on cardio being a necessarily elite stat for all builds, so I'd prefer to not have it maintained while the rest of the physicals are pared back. But if that's what everyone else wants then I'll go along with it.

[Timmy]

Would a simple solution be to let all other stats but cardio get reduced? It would solve the lhw/hw energy rape problem that I think will occur. The hw rape problem could be fixed with more tweaks, but why? Seems the energy battle is already in a good spot right now and that is mostly based around cardio.

 

Did someone already talk about this? I can't look through the whole thread atm. Sorry if I'm being redundant.

 

 

I'm not sold on cardio being a necessarily elite stat for all builds, so I'd prefer to not have it maintained while the rest of the physicals are pared back. But if that's what everyone else wants then I'll go along with it.

 

It will be great if the game sort of self-adjusts and exceptional or sensational becomes the "new elite" for cardio. I mean, I hope that elite becomes overkill unless you have a good reason. So, if you have two heavyweights slugging it out in a standing brawl, the elite cardio fighter should get hit harder and more often by the opponent with exceptional cardio who has greater speed/agility/strength. Two strategies wth pros and cons. Then it's down to secondaries/hiddens/randoms/sliders to decide the result. The skill being to match the physicals, secondaries and hiddens into a bulid and strategy that works and then getting the sliders right.

Actually, it's making my brain hurt to try to imagine what it will be like if physicals actually matter

I'm pretty sure that I won't be buliding with elite cardio though. Exceptional+ (135 to 140) sounds about right for my builds with all the other physicals to consider.

[JLP]

 

 

 

It will be great if the game sort of self-adjusts and exceptional or sensational becomes the "new elite" for cardio. I mean, I hope that elite becomes overkill unless you have a good reason. So, if you have two heavyweights slugging it out in a standing brawl, the elite cardio fighter should get hit harder and more often by the opponent with exceptional cardio who has greater speed/agility/strength. Two strategies wth pros and cons. Then it's down to secondaries/hiddens/randoms/sliders to decide the result. The skill being to match the physicals, secondaries and hiddens into a bulid and strategy that works and then getting the sliders right.

Actually, it's making my brain hurt to try to imagine what it will be like if physicals actually matter

I'm pretty sure that I won't be buliding with elite cardio though. Exceptional+ (135 to 140) sounds about right for my builds with all the other physicals to consider.

That's pretty much been my thought process as well. I've come up with a few builds that I dont think will need high cardio (wonderful or exc will be my target) and a few that I would want to be in the high sens territory. There are just so many more possibilities now that physicals will actually matter.

[edwardsfan]

 

You do those physicals, I will beat you almost every time! I really hope guys try that, because I guarantee a few managers already know how to beat that pretty easily

Hey bud, if you feel you know some special shit I won't doubt it.

[Guest]

I just thought of a great idea....Fix the fucking flights before you fuck up the rest of the game.

 

Just a fucking thought!!!!!!!!!!! Getting tired of not being able to get my fighters where I need them when I want them and this has been a known fuck in the game for awhile.

Fucking BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[madbob]

I just thought of a great idea....Fix the fucking flights before you fuck up the rest of the game.

 

Just a fucking thought!!!!!!!!!!! Getting tired of not being able to get my fighters where I need them when I want them and this has been a known fuck in the game for awhile.

Fucking BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Rico what are you one about???? Explain that better, i am not aware of a flight fuck up.

[Guest]

Flights have been broken, not sure about location but private planes don't give the morale and energy improvement they should... and haven't for awhile. They were supposed to be getting looked into, which of course... hasn't happened

[madbob]

Flights have been broken, not sure about location but private planes don't give the morale and energy improvement they should... and haven't for awhile. They were supposed to be getting looked into, which of course... hasn't happened

 

oh shit i didnt even noticed that. But rico was talking of his guys not being there where they should be, so it still sounds like he has a different problem