Slower learners: Should they be kept or released?

[andy808]

I have a bunch of project fighters going, but one of them is visibily much slower than the others. What do you guys do when you find one of your fights is a slow learner? Does that mean being low in learning speed means they might have more points in the other hiddens? I'm thinking of giving it a shot and keeping him, but I wanted to see what you guys do in such a case and see if it might be worth it to try it out

 

edit: I really derped on the title

[Guest]

All hiddens are independent. Meaning they could all be 150, or they could all be 1.

[Guest]

Slow learning speed just means it would take longer to get him ready, he probably won't be an elite fighter but he can still be good if trained right

[Wolf]

Depends how patient you are. If you are willing to sit on him for longer to train him, then it's all good if his other hiddens are good. Other hiddens imo are more important than learning speed, can still get a beast with low learning speed

[EzekelRAGE]

With the cap implemented, I don't think slow learners are the instasacks they used to be. If he has decent hiddens (and not stupidly slow), give him a shot. With a cap in place in the game, it would just take your guy a bit longer to reach the "finish line" stat wise.. If this was when there was no cap, then you would be at a bigger disadvantage. Probably make him a striker, since he wouldn't need to train as many things or go the KT route, which would maybe soften the blow as well.

[markyosullivan]

I have a bunch of project fighters going, but one of them is visibily much slower than the others. What do you guys do when you find one of your fights is a slow learner? Does that mean being low in learning speed means they might have more points in the other hiddens? I'm thinking of giving it a shot and keeping him, but I wanted to see what you guys do in such a case and see if it might be worth it to try it out

 

edit: I really derped on the title

 

I think I fixed the title

[Rambo]

I always kept slow learners if other hiddens were competent... truth is I never paid too much attention to training speed til recently, so even if I had a slow learner, I wouldn't know for a few months or a year or so down the road. I got two p4p #1's (don + taj) with the two slowest learners from my first batch of projects.

[markyosullivan]

I only started tracking if my fighters are fast learners or not a couple of months ago. So I don't think it matters too much. That being said, if you have a fast learner it strongly helps your chances of success in ID restricted orgs.

[KingEpicity]

Pretty much what Wolf and CK said, it really depends on how the other hiddens play out and of course if they are insanely slow. A slow learner with a bad/mediocre/semi-good hidden pop is getting sacked by me instantly because I am not patient enough to watch him grow that long for someone who probably isn't going to be a top level caliber fight. A good chin/granite chin/KO power project I will keep and train him up but I will still test him early on to see if there are any problems. No point in wasting all that time on training a slow learner who popped KO power if he's going to turn out to have a bum chin, you wanna find that shit out before you waste 1-2 years(real time) training him.

 

You can also kiss ID orgs goodbye early on if he's pretty slow as well unless you wanna be picky about who you face because the faster learners in his ID range will gain a lot more ground quickly.

[Rambo]

Pretty much what Wolf and CK said, it really depends on how the other hiddens play out and of course if they are insanely slow. A slow learner with a bad/mediocre/semi-good hidden pop is getting sacked by me instantly because I am not patient enough to watch him grow that long for someone who probably isn't going to be a top level caliber fight. A good chin/granite chin/KO power project I will keep and train him up but I will still test him early on to see if there are any problems. No point in wasting all that time on training a slow learner who popped KO power if he's going to turn out to have a bum chin, you wanna find that shit out before you waste 1-2 years(real time) training him.

 

You can also kiss ID orgs goodbye early on if he's pretty slow as well unless you wanna be picky about who you face because the faster learners in his ID range will gain a lot more ground quickly.

 

That contradicts itself to some degree. You don't need to be picky about who you fight. You test him and fight whoever, take the good with the bad, and call it a learning curve. Declining a fight because somebody has a faster learner than you, stupid.

 

I think declining fights based off primaries (in ID restricted org or at top level of game) is petty from the get-go... I'm surprised we can even see fighters primaries without some type of scouting tool, etc.

 

 

My fights with primary disadvantage:

 

CK vs Ruphus Duphus (226K vs 175K)

Wonderful / Remarkable / Sens / Brown vs Elite / Sens / Sens / Brown
Result: TKO 4th round (win)

 

CK vs Gale Hawthorne

Exceptional / Strong / Wonderful / Brown vs Sens / Sens / Sens / Brown
Result: 4th round TKO (win)

CK vs Aylib 2.0 (222K vs 212K)

Wonderful / Exceptional / Sensational / Brown vs Elite / Elite / Elite / Black
Result: 2nd round TKO (win)

 

CK vs Tony Serritellia (222K vs 190K)
Wonderful / Exceptional / Sensational / Brown vs Sen / Sen / Sen / Black

Result: 1st round KO (win)

 

CK vs Aylib 2.0 (222K vs 210K)

Wonderful / Exceptional / Sensational / Brown vs Elite / Sens / Sens / Black
Result: Decision (loss)

 

CK vs GBK

Exceptional / Proficient / Wonderful / Brown vs Sens / Exceptional / Exceptional / Purple
Result: 1st round KO (win)

 

 

 

and all of Kajun Puno's fights he was the primary disadvantage. Yes, some losses are definitely related to stat disadvantage, but you learn just as much if not more about your fighter in a loss as you do with a win.

 

 

I'd recommend at least 10 or so fights, based on injury hidden, before deciding to put slow learner on the training shelf for an irl year or two or however long it takes him to reach skill cap.

 

 

and don't even get me started on how many times I had a triple elite fighter (Enzo, Ziggy, Moses) lose to somebody with inferior primaries...

[Erik]

IMO it's very dependent on how slow they really are; some guys are just infuriatingly slow and aren't worth bothering with, others just take a little bit longer. I find it hard to pick other hiddens on under developed fighters too.

[KingEpicity]

 

 

That contradicts itself to some degree. You don't need to be picky about who you fight. You test him and fight whoever, take the good with the bad, and call it a learning curve. Declining a fight because somebody has a faster learner than you, stupid.

 

I think declining fights based off primaries (in ID restricted org or at top level of game) is petty from the get-go... I'm surprised we can even see fighters primaries without some type of scouting tool, etc.

 

 

My fights with primary disadvantage:

 

CK vs Ruphus Duphus (226K vs 175K)

Wonderful / Remarkable / Sens / Brown vs Elite / Sens / Sens / Brown

Result: TKO 4th round (win)

 

CK vs Gale Hawthorne

Exceptional / Strong / Wonderful / Brown vs Sens / Sens / Sens / Brown

Result: 4th round TKO (win)

CK vs Aylib 2.0 (222K vs 212K)

Wonderful / Exceptional / Sensational / Brown vs Elite / Elite / Elite / Black

Result: 2nd round TKO (win)

 

CK vs Tony Serritellia (222K vs 190K)

Wonderful / Exceptional / Sensational / Brown vs Sen / Sen / Sen / Black

Result: 1st round KO (win)

 

CK vs Aylib 2.0 (222K vs 210K)

Wonderful / Exceptional / Sensational / Brown vs Elite / Sens / Sens / Black

Result: Decision (loss)

 

CK vs GBK

Exceptional / Proficient / Wonderful / Brown vs Sens / Exceptional / Exceptional / Purple

Result: 1st round KO (win)

 

 

 

and all of Kajun Puno's fights he was the primary disadvantage. Yes, some losses are definitely related to stat disadvantage, but you learn just as much if not more about your fighter in a loss as you do with a win.

 

 

I'd recommend at least 10 or so fights, based on injury hidden, before deciding to put slow learner on the training shelf for an irl year or two or however long it takes him to reach skill cap.

 

 

and don't even get me started on how many times I had a triple elite fighter (Enzo, Ziggy, Moses) lose to somebody with inferior primaries...

 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I am the way. My manager history is littered with wins and losses where I have been at a primary disadvantage.

 

Obviously primary vs primary is only a small scope on how a fight wil go when you factor in hiddens, secondaries, physicals and sliders. Having a primary disadvantage never means a loss and a slight disadvantage means nothing, especially at the higher levels of the game where Elite/Elite/Elite/Black really isn't much better than Sens/Sens/Sens/Black and should always be accepted unless you're a duck or you literally just beat the guy or something.

 

But let's be real here, primary disadvantages mean a lot more on the bottom ID levels (like 275k - current) than it does at the top of the game where disadvantages mean nothing. Especially if we're talking about a newbie to the game who probably doesn't get top training or know the best way to build fighter.

 

A Wonderful/Feeble/Respectable/Blue vs a Wonderful/Superb/Strong/Purple is not a fair fight at all at that level for instance and you couldn't call someone petty for declining the second fight. Just an example of how drastically similar ID fighters can get if one is a 4 learn and the other a 7.5 during the younger years. That doesn't mean the fight is not winnable but it's a severe disadvantage. If Fighter 1 wins then he gets all the credit in the world for beating a much better fighter but likely has a better manager and hiddens.

 

You fight vs Grant is a good example of my last point. Clearly you are a better manager than Grant and I don't think he would argue otherwise and his fighter had no chin where as Ozzy is a hidden beast.

[Rambo]

A Wonderful/Feeble/Respectable/Blue vs a Wonderful/Superb/Strong/Purple is not a fair fight at all at that level for instance and you couldn't call someone petty for declining the second fight. Just an example of how drastically similar ID fighters can get if one is a 4 learn and the other a 7.5 during the younger years. That doesn't mean the fight is not winnable but it's a severe disadvantage. If Fighter 1 wins then he gets all the credit in the world for beating a much better fighter but likely has a better manager and hiddens.

 

 

imo I think the only grounds for refusing a fight should be: Does this fight make sense?

 

if you had to prioritize it in some formula

 

rank > win/loss streak > money > stats

 

(I'll edit post and break this down later)

[KingEpicity]

 

I wouldn't say that's grounds for a declined fight, the only real stat advantage is muay thai. Maybe BJJ depending on their levels. imo I'd say it would be when you switch one of those strongs or superbs with a wonderful is when you raise an eyebrow.

 

 

 

Personally, I think the only grounds for refusing a fight should be: Does this fight make sense?

 

if you had to prioritize it in some formula

 

rank > win/loss streak > money > stats

 

 

 

edit: anyway I'm nit picking. I know what you mean.

 

Yeah, I see what you mean as well. It's not saying the fight is unwinnable but if I was fighter two in my scenario, I would feel bad knowing I was going to clinch rape work fighter 1 into oblivion.

[stpierrecanada]

I go mostly off their hiddens, and try to focus building their strengths most, but maybe that's why I'm not a real consistent manager tho.

[itakebrides]

What do you guys do when you find one of your fights is a slow learner?

It depends how slow and what his hiddens or .If his retard slow i would sack no matter hat the hiddens. Guys this slow will never reach there full potential.Now if there just average learning or just regular slow sight keep then if they have great hiddens .If they have average hiddens get ride of then .Like some else said if you know there slow test the hell out of then to make sure

[bjornmma1]

Learning speed should never be a deciding factor to keep a fighter or not in my opinion. My best fighters are my slowest learners at the moment. I won't say that it's linked, but I just want to point out that hiddens are far more important. If a fighter has good hiddens and you train him up smartly, he will turn out great. Don't release a fighter because he has bad learning speed, just be patient. Anyone who knows me, knows that I am not patient at all (right Joe ?! ) but I try to be patient with some of my slow learners and it pays off. I'll take great hiddens over superfast learning speed any day!

[TPowell]

What's too slow for you guys?

[bjornmma1]

What's too slow for you guys?

Nothing really if his hiddens are brilliant.

You should look at learning speed and hiddens as a combo, but with hiddens as the most important part of that combo.

[markyosullivan]

What's too slow for you guys?

 

Honestly depends on what you want. If you want to fight your guys regularly you want to have 5.0 or above at the minimum I'd say, though I know people who sack their fighters if they're below 6.0. If you're happy to keep them training for a long time, you could keep a fighter no matter how slow they are.

 

Joseph Omeruo was a very slow learner but he had KO power. I just couldn't be bothered training him up because it'd take longer than someone else so I released him. Plus he got TKO'd in his second QFC which isn't a good sign.

[TPowell]

 

Honestly depends on what you want. If you want to fight your guys regularly you want to have 5.0 or above at the minimum I'd say, though I know people who sack their fighters if they're below 6.0. If you're happy to keep them training for a long time, you could keep a fighter no matter how slow they are.

 

Joseph Omeruo was a very slow learner but he had KO power. I just couldn't be bothered training him up because it'd take longer than someone else so I released him. Plus he got TKO'd in his second QFC which isn't a good sign.

 

I have a couple below 4.50 but I already sacked 2 guys because they were around 4. Trying to decide what I wanna do. They have decent hiddens like solid chin and determined

[Rambo]

I have a fighter who has went from useless clinchwork to superb in 74 one v one training sessions with triple elite clinchwork coach.

 

 

I feel like that constitutes "too slow"... but at this point it's a little late to cut ties over training speed alone.

[Steel]

77 to remarkable def grap and 108 to exceptional striking defence.

 

Created at 16 has granite chin so I hope to Mithras he is worth it.

[Marky]

If I create my own, no one under 6 will survive. If I pick up a free agent and I've identified enough good attributes (=hiddens) to work on, learning speed in that case becomes almost irrelevant.

[DavyJones]

Anything below 6 is too slow for me unless they pop granite chin or heavy hitter then I might give them a chance as long as they are above 5.5

Under 5.5 drives me crazy it takes far too long to get them fight ready.