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Clinton or Trump - Please Vote


SteelPenn

Clinton Or Trump  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. Who whould you vote for?



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Please link some proof that rich people are backing Trump. Money from the big banks and Wall Street is all flowing towards Clinton.

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/04/21/trump-oh-you-bet-i-support-raising-taxes-on-the-rich-n2152154

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/poll-hillary-clinton-support-millionaires-113471

http://www.businessinsider.com/hillary-clinton-sanctioned-tax-breaks-for-wealthy-charity-donors-2015-5

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/hillary-clinton-favorite-candidate-millionaires-survey-n354601

I think it would be prudent to severely limit the immigration of people who sympathize/relate/originate to an area of the world we have been bombing and occupying for the past 25 years. Whenever we finally abandon this horrible foreign policy (it wont be under Hillary's rule for certain) then we can get back to allowing immigrants who have the desired skills or education to contribute to the country.

After what you wrote on immigration, I'm assuming you dont know much about the US immigration history. This country has rarely had an open door immigration policy and when it did it was often very discriminatory on the origins/religion of immigrants. When mass immigration was desired it was people from poorer European countries (Italy, Ireland, Poland) that were allowed to immigrate. There were always quotas and there still are quotas. In 1990 the "diversity visa" program started allowing unskilled and uneducated people into the country in the inane pursuit of multiculturalism (an abysmal failure throughout the world).

 

 

LOL. Thats all I have to say about your immigration stance. I know immigration history and policy decently well due to my wonderful Western education that likes to inform us about these things. I have also spent my life reading books. Some of them actually dealt with how we handled immigration, whoah! I never said we have, or should have an open door policy. I said we should not be exclusionary based upon the religious beliefs of immigrants. Do I think we should exclude people who shout they hate us? Yes, we should not let those people in. However, those people are in the minority. People who come here mostly integrate very well within a generation or two and want to be here. There are plenty of people already here that want to tear down the walls from all races and religious creeds. Want to kick them all out?

 

You are a xenophobe. You are proud of it. I get it. Being afraid to allow people who want an opportunity based upon their birthplace, religion or color is ridiculous and anti-American. America is the melting pot, is our multiculturalism a failure? Or is it what makes us the baddest ass country on the planet? I'd say it is the second, but you'd say it failed. I don't get you.

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I don't use MSN or HuffPo or Breitbart or FOX or any other ridiculously slanted organization for any of my news.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-anti-muslim-rhetoric-of-trump-and-cruz-only-helps-terrorists/2016/03/24/9440114c-f1ea-11e5-89c3-a647fcce95e0_story.html

 

That is written by Michael Gerson a former Bushiite and strong conservative. Read it and you'll understand what I mean by sometimes words are worse than bombs.

 

Words coming from world leader's mouths are extremely important and are used against us as much as possible. That is why most presidents are careful in the way that they speak. Their words live in perpetuity and can be pulled up out of the moat of information at will by people who are against us. There isn't always photographic or video evidence of bombs. Every bomb that is dropped is not reported to the general public by either side (you always hear, the Palestinians have shot 78 missiles near the border of Israel near xxyy province or wherever and it killed or injured zz amount of people, Israel has responded by sending xxx amount of bombs or troops or whatever to kick ass.)

 

Contrast the bomb to a word. Words that leave people's mouths show their ideas and thoughts about things. The way that people speak is what defines the way they deal with the world. The rest of the world pays very close attention to what is said and if they don't like it, they use it as ammo against our people/way of life. Words cause more harm than bombs in an indirect way by mobilizing groups that may not be mobilized had our rhetoric not have been so strong. We can bomb the shit out of ISIS, most of the Middle East is all good with that. They don't like them either. Same with the Taliban and all the rest. What other countries don't like, and what fuels terrorism, is inflammatory rhetoric that Joe Schmoe from Afghanistan hears at his local mosque or dinner spot. This rhetoric makes normal people in marginalized countries feel like the biggest superpower in the world doesn't care about them, doesn't like how they live, doesn't like who they worship, etc. Then they are easily manipulated into action when usually they would say no way. Their lives are already shitty so if you point to what could be construed as a cause of their shitty situation, they will follow. Most people everywhere are uneducated and uninformed.

 

Hillary (who I don't want to defend, yet you keep pushing me to and assuming that I give a shit about her), is talking about governments and governmental/military actions. She's not out there talking about people. At least not that I'm aware of. Trump is. He's constantly talking about people, not governments. Build a wall, kill Muslim families, stop Muslims from immigration. That is directed at the public, that is fucking dangerous. There is a tremendous difference and if you can't see it then take off your blinders. The difference in rhetoric is profound. When you talk about people, people don't like it. Everyone hates their government. Everyone knows its a rigged game. When we start pointing our fingers at the public, all gloves are off and whatever group we are talking about might just elect some radical motherfuckers that want war so they can "feel" like they have some autonomy and control over their situation.

 

I stand by my statement, Trump will get us into a war and/or massively increase terrorist activity worldwide due to the way he speaks.

 

Telling people explicitly, with easily verifiable evidence (video and audio and twitter), that we are going to kill their families is a fucking stupid move by any measure. More fuel for the fire. As you pointed out their families are already being killed. Saying it out loud and saying it is policy makes it just that much worse.

 

I'm saying that there will be direct consequences for his inflammatory rhetoric. You can minimize the way we treat most of the world by saying it just "hurts their feelings" when we stay stuff. That doesn't change the effect that words create.

 

I'll give it to you. Most rich people don't like Trump and I was wrong about that. Rich people are smart. Mostly it is poor, dumb, uneducated voters that are for him. I was letting my personal experience cloud my mind because all of the wealthy people that I know are all about Trump. They want the tax breaks and they want them now. That is a small view of things though and after having researched a little I will give it to you. Stupid poor white males really, really like Trump.

 

You want me to fight you point by point but you want to summarize my arguments into short quotes. This is typical and shows that you aren't really listening just summarizing in your head.

It's ridiculous to say that words are worse than bombs. No sane person can possibly make that statement, let alone write a long diatribe on it. The article you posted doesnt even advance that same position. It says inflammatory rhetoric can antagonize muslims. No shit, we all know that. But it never says words are worse then bombs, probably one of the most asinine things i ever read. Obama bombing the shit out of muslims in the ME, a policy which Hillary has already said will continue and intensify when she wins, causes far more harm than Trump talking on a subject.

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LOL. Thats all I have to say about your immigration stance. I know immigration history and policy decently well due to my wonderful Western education that likes to inform us about these things. I have also spent my life reading books. Some of them actually dealt with how we handled immigration, whoah! I never said we have, or should have an open door policy. I said we should not be exclusionary based upon the religious beliefs of immigrants. Do I think we should exclude people who shout they hate us? Yes, we should not let those people in. However, those people are in the minority. People who come here mostly integrate very well within a generation or two and want to be here. There are plenty of people already here that want to tear down the walls from all races and religious creeds. Want to kick them all out?

 

You are a xenophobe. You are proud of it. I get it. Being afraid to allow people who want an opportunity based upon their birthplace, religion or color is ridiculous and anti-American. America is the melting pot, is our multiculturalism a failure? Or is it what makes us the baddest ass country on the planet? I'd say it is the second, but you'd say it failed. I don't get you.

You said we have a history of not excluding people based on religion, which shows that you have no clue about the history of immigration in this country. You may have read some books, but it seems like you didnt learn or retain a thing. Immigration was very exclusionary in this country based on race/religion until very recent times (1990).

 

Multiculturalism has been a horrible failure around the western world. It encourages immigrants to not integrate into the culture of their new country. Evidence of that is the vast muslim slums in Europe, where integration has not happened.

http://nypost.com/2016/03/22/muslim-ghettos-in-europe-are-hotbeds-for-terror/

 

The term "melting pot" is pretty much directly opposed to multiculturalism. "Melting Pot" describes integration into society, blending different cultures into one whole which is a good thing and what we used to have. Multiculturalism describes maintaining many separate and distinct cultures inside a nation, which has been shown to cause distrust, ethnic conflict and generational poverty. With that in mind, go read your last paragraph and realize that it makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

I got a good laugh at you calling me a xenophobe. My wife was not born in this country and is of a different race then me.

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The president is really just a face to the nation. They really can't do much without a vote saying they can. Trump is a great businessman and Clinton has some knowledge of what it's like to be in office from her husband. Im not really into politics like i should but ill take Hilary over Trump just because experience.

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It's ridiculous to say that words are worse than bombs. No sane person can possibly make that statement, let alone write a long diatribe on it. The article you posted doesnt even advance that same position. It says inflammatory rhetoric can antagonize muslims. No shit, we all know that. But it never says words are worse then bombs, probably one of the most asinine things i ever read. Obama bombing the shit out of muslims in the ME, a policy which Hillary has already said will continue and intensify when she wins, causes far more harm than Trump talking on a subject.

You are so wrong I can't even describe it. Your reductive arguments are child like. Trump has said he will bomb harder. What more do you want me to say?

 

Words cause bombs. Inflammation in a large public group causes terrorism. If you don't see that then you weren't an educated adult for the last 20 years.

 

Pissing off any large group in the world gets people killed. Bombs don't drop without words. Shit doesn't happen if nobody talks about it. These are first year polisci and first year Philo arguments. It is rare that a group jumps to deadly action unless they are antagonized. You act like antagonizing a 1+ billion group of people is just fine and no big deal. That is insane, not me saying that words can cause more harm than bombs. You can't look at things holistically, instead you cherry pick and ignore what you can't argue.

 

You call me insane while ignoring a significant portion of my arguments. Broad strokes or concise thinking? I wonder which is better? Actually I don't. I know which is better.

 

The article I posted says exactly what I'm saying. Trumps rhetoric helps them not us. Read it again simpleton.

 

If this was econ you are thinking micro about macro. It doesn't work.

 

No wonder you like Trump.

 

Also. I said sometimes words are worse. Not always. Words from people in power hold more weight than words from you or me. Listen to what is said. You knee jerk so hard MY knees hurt.

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You said we have a history of not excluding people based on religion, which shows that you have no clue about the history of immigration in this country. You may have read some books, but it seems like you didnt learn or retain a thing. Immigration was very exclusionary in this country based on race/religion until very recent times (1990).

 

Multiculturalism has been a horrible failure around the western world. It encourages immigrants to not integrate into the culture of their new country. Evidence of that is the vast muslim slums in Europe, where integration has not happened.

http://nypost.com/2016/03/22/muslim-ghettos-in-europe-are-hotbeds-for-terror/

 

The term "melting pot" is pretty much directly opposed to multiculturalism. "Melting Pot" describes integration into society, blending different cultures into one whole which is a good thing and what we used to have. Multiculturalism describes maintaining many separate and distinct cultures inside a nation, which has been shown to cause distrust, ethnic conflict and generational poverty. With that in mind, go read your last paragraph and realize that it makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

I got a good laugh at you calling me a xenophobe. My wife was not born in this country and is of a different race then me.

You are quibbling about semantics.

 

Once again your oversimplification of my arguments makes no sense. Want to quibble? I said that we SHOULD not be exclusionary. Not that we have not been. I need to type in caps so that you will listen. Multiculturalism occurs during the generational gap that I spoke of when taking about integration. Your argument is moot because you didn't even listen. I even explained that you are just summarizing in your head and you just proved it even more.

 

Oh and btw. You being married to a foreign person doesn't mean shit when your words are xenophobic. It actually makes your words that much worse. I don't know her nationality and I don't really care. It is not related to what I said. Your words make you xenophobic, not who you choose to spend your life with. If I have a black friend does that automatically make my words not racist? If I have a Muslim family member does that absolve me of all words I say against Muslims? No. That is the type of argument a middle schooler makes.

 

Go ahead and ignore the base of what is said and use your reductive arguments. It only shows that you are a fool that is incapable of abstract thinking. You are using idiotic arguments when you are equating the state of Europe with the situation in the US and then extrapolating this thinking to a broader world view.

 

Keep cherry picking and glossing over specific arguments that are not easy for you to deal with.

 

People like you scare me because you are smart enough to shout down someone who doesn't agree, but so stupid that you can't pull yourself out of your silly personal world long enough to listen to another person's thoughts.

 

You ignored most of my post and harped on a small statement. Hmmmmm.

 

I admit my wrongs. You just pass over what you don't like and fuck the rest. It is typical of your ilk. Have a good time in your little bubble. It's going to pop when your boy gets in and fucks up everything.

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Wow, you sure got mad quick. Sorry that I offended you when I pointed out how wrong you were on multiple occasions. If you dont want to look like an idiot, use your search bar up there on the top of your browser and check your facts before you post. I can poke some more holes into your last two posts (mostly teary eyed lamentations that I didnt understand you, you've abandoned any attempt to prove your confused initial point "Trump will get us into a war quick"), but you'll just say I'm misconstruing you or cherry picking or whatever crybaby defense you may try to come up with. If you struggle to make a coherent argument based on belief rather then fact you cant get mad when someone picks it apart.

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Wow, you sure got mad quick. Sorry that I offended you when I pointed out how wrong you were on multiple occasions. If you dont want to look like an idiot, use your search bar up there on the top of your browser and check your facts before you post. I can poke some more holes into your last two posts (mostly teary eyed lamentations that I didnt understand you, you've abandoned any attempt to prove your confused initial point "Trump will get us into a war quick"), but you'll just say I'm misconstruing you or cherry picking or whatever crybaby defense you may try to come up with. If you struggle to make a coherent argument based on belief rather then fact you cant get mad when someone picks it apart.

 

Lol, totally agree.

 

 

By the way Trump will bomb harder?? might be true, but ISIS NEED to be bombed harder, and not with words like Barry is doing right now, by far the worst administration in history of USA, on par with the BUSH Jr administration, Killary Clinton will keep carry the banner of these poor administration, really subpar in both the foreign relations aspect and internal policy too.

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The president is really just a face to the nation. They really can't do much without a vote saying they can. Trump is a great businessman and Clinton has some knowledge of what it's like to be in office from her husband. Im not really into politics like i should but ill take Hilary over Trump just because experience.

Please no, it doesnt work like that really, are you seriously going to vote Hillary just because she is the wife of Bill ?? comeon.

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Lol, totally agree.

 

 

By the way Trump will bomb harder?? might be true, but ISIS NEED to be bombed harder, and not with words like Barry is doing right now, by far the worst administration in history of USA, on par with the BUSH Jr administration, Killary Clinton will keep carry the banner of these poor administration, really subpar in both the foreign relations aspect and internal policy too.

My solution would be bomb not at all. Let Russia handle it. Playing empire/world police is too costly and counter productive.

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Please no, it doesnt work like that really, are you seriously going to vote Hillary just because she is the wife of Bill ?? comeon.

It sounds like you don't want her to be president because she's a woman. A first lady is more than just a wife. They are in the middle of everything probably more than the vice president. Even when it was kings and queens. The queen was more than just a wife.

If im not wrong i thought it took a vote by the senate or congress to really do anything.

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My solution would be bomb not at all. Let Russia handle it. Playing empire/world police is too costly and counter productive.

At least we can agree on that.

 

You called me insane. I responded. Political discourse is another foundation here. While I think your worldview is skewed, you feel the same about me. Thanks for the discussion.

 

Have a happy 4th.

 

Ps. Gianka. Shut up and let adults speak. You don't have shit to say about this.

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Wow, you sure got mad quick. Sorry that I offended you when I pointed out how wrong you were on multiple occasions. If you dont want to look like an idiot, use your search bar up there on the top of your browser and check your facts before you post. I can poke some more holes into your last two posts (mostly teary eyed lamentations that I didnt understand you, you've abandoned any attempt to prove your confused initial point "Trump will get us into a war quick"), but you'll just say I'm misconstruing you or cherry picking or whatever crybaby defense you may try to come up with. If you struggle to make a coherent argument based on belief rather then fact you cant get mad when someone picks it apart.

You keep calling me names and belittling instead of responding. It's ok. I'm a teary eyed guy. Lol. This is schoolyard bully trick #1. Just attack someone's character instead of what they say. I know because I used to be the bully.

 

Actually you picked one or two paragraphs and ignored the rest. I am not stating anything that hasn't been said by people who know a lot more than we do. You've made up your mind instead of listening and responding. It's cool. We're done. You think I'm a child and I think you're one.

 

Again. Have a great 4th and I hope you have a long and happy life.

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You keep calling me names and belittling instead of responding. It's ok. I'm a teary eyed guy. Lol. This is schoolyard bully trick #1. Just attack someone's character instead of what they say. I know because I used to be the bully.

 

Actually you picked one or two paragraphs and ignored the rest. I am not stating anything that hasn't been said by people who know a lot more than we do. You've made up your mind instead of listening and responding. It's cool. We're done. You think I'm a child and I think you're one.

 

Again. Have a great 4th and I hope you have a long and happy life.

You were the first one to start tossing insults. Post #76. I looked back and can't really even find where I called you a name at all. Closest I can find is the "It's ridiculous to say that words are worse than bombs. No sane person can possibly make that statement, let alone write a long diatribe on it." Which I stand by. Bombs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>words in the bad range.

 

I feel like you are talking about yourself in the latter half of your post here. I was able to back up anything I said pretty easily. The nonsense you spewed was easily rebutted and I showed that you really have no idea what you are talking about. I actually did you a favor and didnt even attempt to make a rebuttal to the more incoherent arguments you put forth. If you care to try and summarize them and maybe have them make sense this time, I'll take a look.

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It sounds like you don't want her to be president because she's a woman.

And you came to that conclusion, because...???

 

This is starting to get ridicolous and boring, the most embarassing excuses and finger pointing come from the Clinton supporters.

 

" You vote for Trump because you are filthy rich"

 

"You vote for Trump , well because racism, what else??!!!!"

 

"You vote Trump because you are a trailer park redneck!111111111"

 

And last but not least: " You vote Trump because you dont want to see women as Presidents " this last ridicolous shit goes on par with " You didnt voted Obama back then because you dont want to see negroes as Presidents!!111"

 

Jesus K rist. (Scully citation)

 

This resemble more or less the same talking shit about Brexit result " You voted Leave because you are racist ofcourse mate pal oookey bibbidiboppidi"

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My solution would be bomb not at all. Let Russia handle it. Playing empire/world police is too costly and counter productive.

If you really want to let Russia handle it ,which would be perfectly fine as long "we" westerners dont spend a dime, you should also tell your next President to both stop sanctioning Russia and stop supporting the Saudi sponsored "freedom" fighters in Syria, just like you did in Afghanistan in the 80's.

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And you came to that conclusion, because...???

 

This is starting to get ridicolous and boring, the most embarassing excuses and finger pointing come from the Clinton supporters.

 

" You vote for Trump because you are filthy rich"

 

"You vote for Trump , well because racism, what else??!!!!"

 

"You vote Trump because you are a trailer park redneck!111111111"

 

And last but not least: " You vote Trump because you dont want to see women as Presidents " this last ridicolous shit goes on par with " You didnt voted Obama back then because you dont want to see negroes as Presidents!!111"

 

Jesus K rist. (Scully citation)

 

This resemble more or less the same talking shit about Brexit result " You voted Leave because you are racist ofcourse mate pal oookey bibbidiboppidi"

Dude chill out she wouldn't be running unless she was qualified that goes for Trump as well they both have good and bad qualities just depend on your vuews as well. You saying she was just the wife of bill is really ignorant. I dont care race religion or gender it can be a transgender for all i care as long as they are what is best for the country as a whole.
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. You saying she was just the wife of bill is really ignorant.

Are you trolling or just fooling around...seriously i dont even, or just running out of argument like the other Clinton cheerleader?

 

 

now it Was ME that said that? lol the fuck??!!

 

Dude read again what the hell you wrote before.

 

You just claimed Hillary Clinton will be a good president because she is the wife of Bill Clinton.

 

Did you just realized what you said or not?? please tell me so i can stop arguing with you.

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Are you trolling or just fooling around...seriously i dont even, or just running out of argument like the other Clinton cheerleader?

 

 

now it Was ME that said that? lol the fuck??!!

 

Dude read again what the hell you wrote before.

 

You just claimed Hillary Clinton will be a good president because she is the wife of Bill Clinton.

 

Did you just realized what you said or not?? please tell me so i can stop arguing with you.

Bro you said that or naw. It don't matter fyi im not voting for either one so my opinion isn't biased.
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. Trump is a great businessman and Clinton has some knowledge of what it's like to be in office from her husband. .

 

Well just to clarify what i was talking about, i was referring to what you said in the quote.

 

Pardon me if i said you were going to "vote for her" as i misunderstood, but still you said she should have some sort of knowledge just because of her husband, well i can assure you Hillary Clinton is the worst candidate EVER.

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Well just to clarify what i was talking about, i was referring to what you said in the quote.

 

Pardon me if i said you were going to "vote for her" as i misunderstood, but still you said she should have some sort of knowledge just because of her husband, well i can assure you Hillary Clinton is the worst candidate EVER.

How can she be the worst sounds biased to me. Trump has no experience at all. Whose to say hilary didnt help her husband out. Dont know if your married but the wife is almost always involved in sone way. Trump is really only a good businessman anything else is up for grabs.
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No amount of arguing which candidate is worse than the other is ever going to change the fact that they are both horrible candidates and neither of them will make a good president. It's an embarrassment to our country that the two "top" candidates are these two pieces of shit. I don't care which is worse, I will be voting for someone else who isn't going to win.

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No amount of arguing which candidate is worse than the other is ever going to change the fact that they are both horrible candidates and neither of them will make a good president. It's an embarrassment to our country that the two "top" candidates are these two pieces of shit. I don't care which is worse, I will be voting for someone else who isn't going to win.

 

I think that is the worst thing you can do, yes you are right the yare both shit but you have to vote one of them, thats your duty and most importantly, yes i know that im european and i shouldnt be concerned, but the reality is that we europeans are even more concerned than some americans.

 

Ever played The Witcher??? choose the lesser evil mate.

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