Conspiracy Theorist

[Grasman]

 

Neither actually, I never have nor will I say that conspiracy theorists are idiots, nor have I implied it. What I did imply was that they are extremely frustrating.

 

Here is a generalization (the first one I am going to make in this thread actually) conspiracy theorists systematically ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where they dont exist. This makes them extremely frustrating to argue with.

Again to reiterate I don't think this makes them idiots, there are many natural psychological reasons for there prevalence.

Again with the generalization.

Generalizing this way, only shows your own ignorance.

 

There are idiots everywhere, also amongst those who dispute official accounts of some events.

Just look at Brainsmasher,, he's a thorough-bread American with fucked up opinions on almost any subject.

Arguing with some Americans about USA's foreign actions, Gun ownership, etc.. etc.. is like hitting your head to the wall.

This applies to way more US citizens i've spoken to online, than it doesn't apply to.

However, generalizing all Americans this way would be fucking ignorant.

Even generalizing on a village in USA in that sense would be ignorant.

[gwad12345]

Again with the generalization.

Generalizing this way, only shows your own ignorance.

 

There are idiots everywhere, also amongst those who dispute official accounts of some events.

Just look at Brainsmasher,, he's a thorough-bread American with fucked up opinions on almost any subject.

Arguing with some Americans about USA's foreign actions, Gun ownership, etc.. etc.. is like hitting your head to the wall.

This applies to way more US citizens i've spoken to online, than it doesn't apply to.

However, generalizing all Americans this way would be fucking ignorant.

Even generalizing on a village in USA in that sense would be ignorant.

 

Your analogy between conspiracy theorists and Americans makes absolutely no sense. Its comparing apples to oranges. Some Americans are wrong, frustrating, stupid because they are wrong, frustrating and stupid. Conspiracy theorists are wrong and frustrating because they are conspiracy theorists, that is because they ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist.

 

Are you trying to defend conspiracy theorists or are you trying to defame me? Right now all youre trying to do is prove I'm ignorant which is all well and good if thats what you want but I'd rather get back to the subject of the merit of conspiracies theories personally.

[Grasman]

 

Your analogy between conspiracy theorists and Americans makes absolutely no sense. Its comparing apples to oranges. Some Americans are wrong, frustrating, stupid because they are wrong, frustrating and stupid. Conspiracy theorists are wrong and frustrating because they are conspiracy theorists, that is because they ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist.

 

Are you trying to defend conspiracy theorists or are you trying to defame me? Right now all youre trying to do is prove I'm ignorant which is all well and good if thats what you want but I'd rather get back to the subject of the merit of conspiracies theories personally.

Are you seriously presenting this as argumentation for your case?

 

Basically, those disagreeing with YOU,, are wrong..

 

I'm not trying to defame you, you do that yourself unaided.

I was disagreeing on the generalization Nexus threw out there "in jest according to you" and followed up on by yourself.

 

The fact you keep digging a deeper hole, is neither my fault, nor problem.

[Grasman]

 

 

 

I'd rather get back to the subject of the merit of conspiracies theories personally.

The merit of a conspiracy theory depends on the theory itself.

There is no generalizing about that.

 

Some hold water very well and are actually proven later when documents get declassified.

Some are just piss in a bucket and not worth anything.

 

[gwad12345]

Are you seriously presenting this as argumentation for your case?

 

Basically, those disagreeing with YOU,, are wrong..

 

I'm not trying to defame you, you do that yourself unaided.

I was disagreeing on the generalization Nexus threw out there "in jest according to you" and followed up on by yourself.

 

The fact you keep digging a deeper hole, is neither my fault, nor problem.

 

Honestly, I dont think you know what a generalization is. I'm kind of tired of arguing the semantics of the English language with you.

 

Youve misinterpreted and made assumptions on pretty much everything I said so far in this thread, none more so that what I bolded in the quote. Then when i correct you, you take no heed of what I say and continues asserting that I'm ignorant, its become tedious and tiring.

 

For the record let me assert once again that conspiracy theorists systematically ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist.

Just out of curiosity what are some of the conspiracy theories that you believe? We could then test my assertion that conspiracy theorists ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist.

[Grasman]

 

Honestly, I dont think you know what a generalization is. I'm kind of tired of arguing the semantics of the English language with you.

 

 

For the record let me assert once again that conspiracy theorists systematically ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist.

 

In the highlighted you are generalizing that conspiracy theorists are the same.

Do you actually understand what generalizing is?

[Grasman]

 

---clip---

Just out of curiosity what are some of the conspiracy theories that you believe? We could then test my assertion that conspiracy theorists ignore evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist.

I have no interest wasting time discussing anything of the nature with you, as you have already decided that whatever i bring forward is ignoring evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist,,, in advance.

 

Ergo,, you're not worth any of my time spent on that type of subject.

[GBK16]

Since when did this thread turn into a courtroom?

 

I thought we were just posting our favourite conspiracy theories

[Grasman]

Since when did this thread turn into a courtroom?

 

I thought we were just posting our favourite conspiracy theories

true, i'll shut the fuck up.

[gwad12345]

I have no interest wasting time discussing anything of the nature with you, as you have already decided that whatever i bring forward is ignoring evidence, misinterpret coincidences and make connections where none exist,,, in advance.

 

Ergo,, you're not worth any of my time spent on that type of subject.

 

Lol. Call me sheeple. I know you want to.

 

We dont have to argue about your conspiracy theories if you dont want to just tell me what they are.

[Grasman]

 

Lol. Call me sheeple. I know you want to.

 

We dont have to argue about your conspiracy theories if you dont want to just tell me what they are.

hehe.. Mr. Blind Faith Sheeple

 

On a more serious note, as far as conspiracy theories go,

I'm fairly certain that a very large family, originating from Kazaar, runs the world economy and owns the largest chunk of the global debt.

I´m quite convinced, given the available data and the circumstances laid out in PNAC, that certain factions in and behind the US government, made sure 911 could happen, with even more involvement possible, but it´s open to discussion how deep down the rabbit hole the involvement goes.

The fact US congress had already signed for a "regime change" in Afghanistan as early as the summer 2000.

Check out the Unocal/Taliban negotiations that broke down in1995, Unocals Dossier on the situation in 1997, PNAC in 1999, thereafter Congress´s declaration in 2000, all culminating in the events of 911/Afghanistan war/Iraq war.....

[gwad12345]

hehe.. Mr. Blind Faith Sheeple

 

On a more serious note, as far as conspiracy theories go,

I'm fairly certain that a very large family, originating from Kazaar, runs the world economy and owns the largest chunk of the global debt.

I´m quite convinced, given the available data and the circumstances laid out in PNAC, that certain factions in and behind the US government, made sure 911 could happen, with even more involvement possible, but it´s open to discussion how deep down the rabbit hole the involvement goes.

The fact US congress had already signed for a "regime change" in Afghanistan as early as the summer 2000.

Check out the Unocal/Taliban negotiations that broke down in1995, Unocals Dossier on the situation in 1997, PNAC in 1999, thereafter Congress´s declaration in 2000, all culminating in the events of 911/Afghanistan war/Iraq war.....

 

Just some food for thought and without doing any research into any of your claims let me ask you one question on one of the things you raised. If you are using congresses desire for regime change in Afghanistan to suggest an American conspiracy are you not suggesting that all, most or at least a significant part of congress was "in on it"? Bear in mind that due to the timing of US elections, a large part of the congressional class of 2000 (not to mention the entire executive branch) was different to the congressional class of 2001. Does this level of complexity not give you pause? As KRad was saying earlier it just doesnt stand up to the Occam's razor test. In my opinion this is an example of making connections where none exist and misinterpreting coincidences.

 

I'm really not trying to insult you by posing these questions, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your answers.

[GBK16]

Just gonna state another Theory which isn't a conspiracy though.

 

Humans are actually aliens that crashed into the planet Earth millions of years ago and the impact of our crash wiped out the dinosaurs and we took over as the dominant species.

[gwad12345]

Just gonna state another Theory which isn't a conspiracy though.

 

Humans are actually aliens that crashed into the planet Earth millions of years ago and the impact of our crash wiped out the dinosaurs and we took over as the dominant species.

Thats not a theory, gravity is a theory, thats a fantasy.

[Grasman]

 

Just some food for thought and without doing any research into any of your claims let me ask you one question on one of the things you raised. If you are using congresses desire for regime change in Afghanistan to suggest an American conspiracy are you not suggesting that all, most or at least a significant part of congress was "in on it"? Bear in mind that due to the timing of US elections, a large part of the congressional class of 2000 (not to mention the entire executive branch) was different to the congressional class of 2001. Does this level of complexity not give you pause? As KRad was saying earlier it just doesnt stand up to the Occam's razor test. In my opinion this is an example of making connections where none exist and misinterpreting coincidences.

 

I'm really not trying to insult you by posing these questions, I'm genuinely interested in hearing your answers.

Occams razor is very effective when used correctly.

 

Start at the beginning and then shoot down the consequences.

Don't start by attempting to shoot down a consequence, unless you know its source.

 

It´s always a good method when investigating a crime, is who benefits from it.

[GBK16]

Thats not a theory, gravity is a theory, thats a fantasy.

Technically, it can't be ruled out, but I would agree it is ridiculous. Mainly because if we had the technology for intergalactic travel back then, why did we only regain it in the last 100 years.

[gwad12345]

Technically, it can't be ruled out, but I would agree it is ridiculous. Mainly because if we had the technology for intergalactic travel back then, why did we only regain it in the last 100 years.

It can be ruled out as much as any fantasy can ever be ruled out with consideration to the fact that proving a negative is a logical fallacy. It can ruled out as much as one can say unicorns and dragons never existed.

 

Its basically taking two facts 1) Dinosaurs used to exist 2) Humans exist now. The fact that more than 50 milliion years passed in between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the existence of early hominids is completely ignored.

[Timmy]

Just gonna state another Theory which isn't a conspiracy though.

 

Humans are actually aliens that crashed into the planet Earth millions of years ago and the impact of our crash wiped out the dinosaurs and we took over as the dominant species.

 

Dinosaurs were harvested by McAliens.

[gwad12345]

Occams razor is very effective when used correctly.

 

Start at the beginning and then shoot down the consequences.

Don't start by attempting to shoot down a consequence, unless you know its source.

 

It´s always a good method when investigating a crime, is who benefits from it.

 

Youre not actually answering my [very basic] question(s).

[Grasman]

 

Youre not actually answering my [very basic] question(s).

You question is semi irrelevant, asThe US foreign policy does not change (changes very little) between Presidents, regardless of which side is in power, so elections have little to do with this matter.

The Republicans are generally more war horny, but both parties push the same foreign agenda.

 

I'm not sure how aware you are of the 1995 negotiations between Unocal and Taliban in Texas, that led to the Unocal report in 1997 and was mentioned in PNAC.

 

If you are not aware of this process, we really don't have much to talk about, as I am not going to waste my time educating someone who's already has his mind made up, that everything brought forward is rubbish by default.

 

I bring up a chain of events you might/might not be aware of... and you instantly try to discredit one of the consequences.

 

It is almost pointless to argue with someone, who already has decided the outcome an doesn't even bother to look into the matter.

 

What were the Taliban representatives doing in Texas in 1995.

What were they negotiating...

Who was the interpreter for Unocal...

Why did it collapse and what did it mean to the US...

Why did it warrant a "regime change" a 4 years prior to 911....

 

Anyway,, the above is just one of several reasons for the Afghanistan invasion.

I'm aware of a few more reasons, but the above is 100% one of the reasons in my opinion.

 

You need to be aware of the prior events, to understand what happens.

 

If you're not willing to investigate the angles yourself, that's your problem,

but I'm not going to spoon feed you this info, as that's pointless, nor argue them with you,

which is most likely pointless as well, esp. given your previous statements on conspiracy theorists/theories.

 

Why was operation Northwoods (look at Appendix to Enclosure A) ever planned in 1962, if the US would never consider attacking its own citizens, blaming it on a 3'rd party?

How many people would need to be in on this matter?

All this terror to sway US public opinion, to justify attacking Cuba?

Why was this Op, top secret for 30 years?

 

Anyway, it takes too much time arguing this and on top of that it´s meaningless.

There is nothing the average person can do about this shit and it makes no difference which side is in power at each time...

I used to believe it mattered, but since then I have realized we´re screwed and it makes no difference either way.

[Guest]

 

 

Its basically taking two facts 1) Dinosaurs used to exist 2) Humans exist now. The fact that more than 50 milliion years passed in between the extinction of the dinosaurs and the existence of early hominids is completely ignored.

Wake up sheeple.

http://knowinglyundersold.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/the_flintstones-show.jpg?w=500

[Guest]

Lambodactyls.

[gwad12345]

You question is semi irrelevant, asThe US foreign policy does not change (changes very little) between Presidents, regardless of which side is in power, so elections have little to do with this matter.

The Republicans are generally more war horny, but both parties push the same foreign agenda.

 

I'm not sure how aware you are of the 1995 negotiations between Unocal and Taliban in Texas, that led to the Unocal report in 1997 and was mentioned in PNAC.

 

If you are not aware of this process, we really don't have much to talk about, as I am not going to waste my time educating someone who's already has his mind made up, that everything brought forward is rubbish by default.

 

I bring up a chain of events you might/might not be aware of... and you instantly try to discredit one of the consequences.

 

It is almost pointless to argue with someone, who already has decided the outcome an doesn't even bother to look into the matter.

 

What were the Taliban representatives doing in Texas in 1995.

What were they negotiating...

Who was the interpreter for Unocal...

Why did it collapse and what did it mean to the US...

Why did it warrant a "regime change" a 4 years prior to 911....

 

Anyway,, the above is just one of several reasons for the Afghanistan invasion.

I'm aware of a few more reasons, but the above is 100% one of the reasons in my opinion.

 

You need to be aware of the prior events, to understand what happens.

 

If you're not willing to investigate the angles yourself, that's your problem,

but I'm not going to spoon feed you this info, as that's pointless, nor argue them with you,

which is most likely pointless as well, esp. given your previous statements on conspiracy theorists/theories.

 

Why was operation Northwoods (look at Appendix to Enclosure A) ever planned in 1962, if the US would never consider attacking its own citizens, blaming it on a 3'rd party?

How many people would need to be in on this matter?

All this terror to sway US public opinion, to justify attacking Cuba?

Why was this Op, top secret for 30 years?

 

Anyway, it takes too much time arguing this and on top of that it´s meaningless.

There is nothing the average person can do about this shit and it makes no difference which side is in power at each time...

I used to believe it mattered, but since then I have realized we´re screwed and it makes no difference either way.

 

We can agree to disagree on this but I would hold that it is relevant since a conspiracy becomes several orders of magnitude to keep covered the more people you add in, and you are talking about 2 classes of congress, 2 administrations etc etc. This is just a handful of people any more, this is hundreds, maybe thousands. Second, even if the US (2 congresses, 2 administrations) were hell bent on regime change in Afghanistan there is a quantum leap between that plotting to kill 3000 civilians.

 

can you please spare me the patronizing remarks saying things like youre close-minded, this is pointless, etc.? Engage the arguments. Let me know when I start insulting you.

 

I find it fascinating that Operation Northwoods has been used in support of the 9/11 conspiracy movement. First you are simplifying by an incredible amount the complexity of the US government. You make it sound as if it is a monolithic entity. A few individuals in the military, at the height of the cold war, faced by a (perceived) existential threat from cuba, came up with a plan which was rejected. There is literally no comparison between what they were proposing and a 9/11 conspiracy in terms of context (as I already mentioned), or magnitude (a couple bombings vs. 3000 dead civilians).

[Grasman]

 

We can agree to disagree on this but I would hold that it is relevant since a conspiracy becomes several orders of magnitude to keep covered the more people you add in, and you are talking about 2 classes of congress, 2 administrations etc etc. This is just a handful of people any more, this is hundreds, maybe thousands. Second, even if the US (2 congresses, 2 administrations) were hell bent on regime change in Afghanistan there is a quantum leap between that plotting to kill 3000 civilians.

 

can you please spare me the patronizing remarks saying things like youre close-minded, this is pointless, etc.? Engage the arguments. Let me know when I start insulting you.

 

I find it fascinating that Operation Northwoods has been used in support of the 9/11 conspiracy movement. First you are simplifying by an incredible amount the complexity of the US government. You make it sound as if it is a monolithic entity. A few individuals in the military, at the height of the cold war, faced by a (perceived) existential threat from cuba, came up with a plan which was rejected. There is literally no comparison between what they were proposing and a 9/11 conspiracy in terms of context (as I already mentioned), or magnitude (a couple bombings vs. 3000 dead civilians).

Sorry for the unintended insults.

 

But, you can hardly call the "Joint Chiefs of Staff" "a few individuals in the military"

That is literally the top of the US military as a whole, excluding only the President.

 

The existence of Operation Northwoods, only goes to show how far certain factions are willing to go to meet their agenda.

It proves nothing, but you can't say the willingness isn't there, nor it being impossible.

 

This plan is actually very detailed (don't know how much of it you read), on the various methods of terror to use against US citisens and Cuban refugees in Florida amongst other places.... AND BLAME IT ON CUBA.

 

Operation Gladio WAS put into action, not quite as bad as Northwood and was focused on European civilians, but again, goes to show that nothing is holy......

 

Anyways, i really can't be arsed arguing this subject again, as I don't really care what people (sheeple ) believe anymore.

[thegroovemonkey]

You're confusing the Taliban with Al Queda.