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Takedowns


ericj

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Are takedowns like op now? My fighter has 14++ wrestling and 14-- takdown defense and he was taken down by a guy with 6 wrestling any reason why here is the fight: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=919028

He has 9 Wrestling (not 6) and landed 1 out of 2 takedown attempts, it's not like those are crazy stats. Whatever the answer to the question, that is not enough data to go on to make an assumption.

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it's all small sample sizes unless you are making a scientific research studying hundreds of fights. But to answer the OP question: yes, takedown effectiveness has been increased.

 

at the lower leves it's almost imposible to beat takedown-submission spam.

 

This is a true statement... mostly at least. I have noticed much higher rates of success since beefing up my physicals. TD spam has been far more successful then I feel it should be, especially since it is supposed to tire you out and demoralize the fighter for failing so many, but increasing TD effectiveness by the 5% or whatever it was the Mike increased it by hasn't had a huge effect on the game balance. As expected. What I feel needs possibly looked at and addressed, is the penalties for spamming TDs. Some of the fights I have had just look ridiculous as the opponent. Especially so, when you have the better wrestling primary, good physicals and TDD. Add in good slider skills and it looks even more lopsided...

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This is a true statement... mostly at least. I have noticed much higher rates of success since beefing up my physicals. TD spam has been far more successful then I feel it should be, especially since it is supposed to tire you out and demoralize the fighter for failing so many, but increasing TD effectiveness by the 5% or whatever it was the Mike increased it by hasn't had a huge effect on the game balance. As expected. What I feel needs possibly looked at and addressed, is the penalties for spamming TDs. Some of the fights I have had just look ridiculous as the opponent. Especially so, when you have the better wrestling primary, good physicals and TDD. Add in good slider skills and it looks even more lopsided...

 

Reading it now I see that my post above makes it sound like "takedown-submission spam is almost imposible to beat" because of the change in takedowns effectiveness but I didn't mean it like that. From my experience it was like that before. I do agree that upping takedowns wasn't the best solution though - it would be more logical to decrease "Escapes" effectiveness.

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Reading it now I see that my post above makes it sound like "takedown-submission spam is almost imposible to beat" because of the change in takedowns effectiveness but I didn't mean it like that. From my experience it was like that before. I do agree that upping takedowns wasn't the best solution though - it would be more logical to decrease "Escapes" effectiveness.

Takedown more effective ans Escapes less effective 5% to 10%.

 

zJxwHlz.png

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Takedown more effective ans Escapes less effective 5% to 10%.

 

zJxwHlz.png

 

ah good to know thanks! I didn't remember the part about Escapes. Probably would've been fine with only the tweak in Escapes. And of course upping knees and elbows and downgrading punches in the clinch would have a cascade effect and make either the clinch or the outside standup safer for the grapplers depending on the matchup.

 

I doubt this little tweak has made Escapes "nearly useless" though. unless someone writes a scientific-style essay about it studying hundreds of fights, it's all small sample sizes.

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In lower tier and ID restricted orgs where you see a lot more disparity in fighter builds, you will see some of the more crazy stuff. SOme of my above post seems to have gone MIA, but what I was getting at was that there are a lot of fights that you see in those orgs where the ground fighter is doing literally nothing but throwing out TD after TD while standing. It's all they do. Some as high as 25+ attempts per round. Back before I left the game if someone did that they would pretty much be guaranteed to lose the fight. I, myself was guilty of TD Spam because I was a noob and didn't know what I was doing. It wasn't until I had a more experienced friend in-game tell me I was being a dumbass and that I needed to quit with the TD spam. It would tire me out and possibly have an effect on confidence or morale or whatever. Once I started mixing it up and using counters to land TDs I started to enjoy much higher rates of success with my ground game.

 

I don't think the game favors the stand-up fighters at all, but I am not here to argue about that. My point essentially is that the TD spam is unrealistic and annoying and it needs to be addressed. For example, by simply making it tire the fighter and weaken his resolve (confidence) from all the repeated failures. that way when someone tries that lame tactic they will not enjoy the level of success that they currently do. I feel that otherwise the balance seems mostly OK and I'll let the more experienced managers debate that point. But no way should doing 25+ TD attempts until you get lucky on one be a valid plan to winning a fight.

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For those who think takedowns are over powered because you had one or two times where a guy lands them it's just a percentage thing and not broken. I just had a fight where my guy is 13 in wrestling with 13 speed about to hit 14 in speed which is the main takedowns physical and 13 in takedowns and his opponents wrestling was an 8. My wrestler is close to max and the opponent is about half way and yet he stuffed most of the takedowns in which the majority should have landed. I'm not complaining about it. Even if I would have lost which I didn't. Just using it as a reference that the game engine is run on percentages. So you have to realize that if you have a 90% chance to stop the takedown than the other guy has a 10% chance to land it. While it is unlikely he lands it still has a chance to. And it's rolled every attempt. The system if I remember reading right does give the guy attempting takedowns a penalty to his chances for failed attempts but not for successful ones, and I want to say the penalty only drops the chance so far before it stops stacking it.

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  • 5 weeks later...

25+ attempts per ROUND! That is the foolishness I am talking about. The guy should be knackered and demoralized by that many failed attempts. Even in a 3-5 round fight that is a lot of takedown attempts, but in one round?! Ridiculous. No setting sliders to get the takedown used to be not to try more than 20% takedowns or so. And set on the high side for countering and obviously set counter grappling at 100 percent. But there are fights that I see all the time where the sliders are obviously set to 100% Try Takedowns. That is dumb and should not work. But it does, because of the percentages you talk about. if I throw 100 takedowns 10 might land. That should not work because of the penalty for failed takedowns should make that TD harder and harder to hit.

 

I have improved my fighter builds and ground slider tactics to better counter this tactic, but the fact that so many have noticed how effective TD Spam is and so few have figured out the defense for it makes for rather annoying fights.

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25+ attempts per ROUND! That is the foolishness I am talking about. The guy should be knackered and demoralized by that many failed attempts. Even in a 3-5 round fight that is a lot of takedown attempts, but in one round?! Ridiculous. No setting sliders to get the takedown used to be not to try more than 20% takedowns or so. And set on the high side for countering and obviously set counter grappling at 100 percent. But there are fights that I see all the time where the sliders are obviously set to 100% Try Takedowns. That is dumb and should not work. But it does, because of the percentages you talk about. if I throw 100 takedowns 10 might land. That should not work because of the penalty for failed takedowns should make that TD harder and harder to hit.

 

I have improved my fighter builds and ground slider tactics to better counter this tactic, but the fact that so many have noticed how effective TD Spam is and so few have figured out the defense for it makes for rather annoying fights.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with it. From my experience, it does get harder and harder to land a takedown if you keep failing but not sure it makes it imposible to get it at any point, and the engine runs on percentages - as it should be.

 

I agree that TD+Sub spam is pretty annoying but what can you do? It only works at lower levels.

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