Guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Whats with this thing stand up guys diving to finish the job and getting subbed? Im really getting annoyed about this. Is there a way to avoid this somehow? It seems that at the moment almost 50% of all fights end up in a submission. At the moment it feels that when you make ground fighter you pretty much can neglect all the stand up skills and still win fights. Am I missing something here? Please enlighten me. ;P e. Ofcourse it can be that Im just bad at making stand up fighters. All the tips are very much welcome! e2.Another question. I just had a fight where I rock my opponent. Next thing what happens is that the opponent takes me down and submits my poor fella. Is the rocked-thingy just for the points or does it actually put the fighter in disadvantage for a moment or something? Heres the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankyFin Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 were early in the evolution of MMA. did you see Royce Gracie sub all those white-belts? thats where were at . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Whats with this thing stand up guys diving to finish the job and getting subbed? Im really getting annoyed about this. Is there a way to avoid this somehow? It seems that at the moment almost 50% of all fights end up in a submission. At the moment it feels that when you make ground fighter you pretty much can neglect all the stand up skills and still win fights. Am I missing something here? Please enlighten me. ;P e. Ofcourse it can be that Im just bad at making stand up fighters. All the tips are very much welcome! e2.Another question. I just had a fight where I rock my opponent. Next thing what happens is that the opponent takes me down and submits my poor fella. Is the rocked-thingy just for the points or does it actually put the fighter in disadvantage for a moment or something? Heres the fight. on that fight with the link -- you just got taken down after rocking him -- like most guys get rocked they tend to grab and try to take down -- you just need to work on your takedown def and balance now for at the top -- that is natural move most of the time -- you knock someone down you jump on them for the finish -- i have had this happen -- it sucks but thats where def grappling comes to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Being rocked is nothing to do with points - it's when the opponent is nearly knocked out. However, if someone has a big heart, he is still dangerous when rocked and will fight back even harder. It applies more to KOs in return though, a la Leben vs Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 So my stand up guys just sucks, damn. What about the dominance of ground guys? I feel it a bit odd that when making a stand up guy you have to commit to so many different stats in order to do good but if you wanna make a straight up bjj/wrestling fighter you can pretty much neglect the stand up stats. Or am I being delusional here? The stats don't lie tho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontcareaboutmyid Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 all it takes is 100% stay standing and they won't go to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 So my stand up guys just sucks, damn. What about the dominance of ground guys? I feel it a bit odd that when making a stand up guy you have to commit to so many different stats in order to do good but if you wanna make a straight up bjj/wrestling fighter you can pretty much neglect the stand up stats. Or am I being delusional here? The stats don't lie tho... if tatics are set correctly and skills are there i wouldnt say ground guys dominate at all -- i have a stand up guy 3-0 ko'ed two purple and one blue belt -- taking on the 145lb champ in a week who is purple belt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 if tatics are set correctly and skills are there i wouldnt say ground guys dominate at all -- i have a stand up guy 3-0 ko'ed two purple and one blue belt -- taking on the 145lb champ in a week who is purple belt Yeah I guess it's just a bit harder to make a really good stand up fighter then. Im guessing my stand up fighters mainly lack balance and...something. From the site: Total number of fights: 1548 Fights ending by KO: 427 (27.6%) Fights ending by Sub: 760 (49.1%) <- Not dominant huh? Fights ending by Decision: 361 (23.3%) Fights ending as Draws: 8 (0.5%) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backelie Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 1) If you want to use statistics then cherry picking an example that most supports your argument is a bit intellectually dishonest: Total number of fights: 12428 Fights ending by KO: 3663 (29.5%) Fights ending by Sub: 5656 (45.5%) Fights ending by Decision: 3109 (25.0%) Fights ending as Draws: 73 (0.6%) Anyway, how fights end doesn't only rely on what aspect of the game is most important, but also what kind of fighters people are making! If most people are making sub guys, then any time two sub guys fight it's VERY likely to end in sub or decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 what should i train to up my balance? striking technique and yoga? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 The stats reflect two things 1. people's inability to make balanced fighters. If you make someone with a white belt, they will get subbed. 2. the fact more people create ground fighters because they think that's the best thing to do, hence lots of fights end up on the ground because BOTH fighters are ground fighters. If you check out most of the top managers, they have most wins by KO/TKO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somemmafan Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Just wanted to add my 2 cents worth from a newer manager. Even if 45% of fights end with submission, it doesnt reflect programming. It only reflects peoples tendencies in this game. So knowing peoples tendencies.. youd better make a toon with rediculous submission defense. And training up submission ground def also helps you prevent full mount, and flip positions. its huge. Btw.. yah i know that sucks when it happens tho. Whats a bit iffy in my mind tho, is a person with no wrestling skills at all able to take people down to the ground. But theres so many factors there, its hard to say. strength, agility, balance, was he in a clinch yadda yadda just a note. im sweatin pins and needles on a fight tommorrow. just made top 100 today. got 2 fights tommorrow. if the fight goes to the ground hes doomed. Hope his take down defense/ defense grapling is good enough to pull it out. Its a fight i know i cant just take him down and grind and pound it out for a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Yeah you definitely have to be pretty damn good at everything else to take someone down with better wrestling than you. This issue in general is a biggy to fix but we'll try and fix going to the ground so that you can choose never to do so... but yeah, it's a hell of a lot of programming to sort it - it needs new types of commentary writing etc but it's something that I do want to do because I never want people to get subbed due to their own actions, if they have no intential of going to the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I believe the system should be left as is. Even Chuck Liddell drops to the ground to finish a downed opponent despite virtually never attempting submissions. Players just need to balance their fighters for defense instead of working it all offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelung Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=9826 He goes from being rocked to subbing me in one move. That's a pretty crazy recovery time imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Not really. You gave your fighter white belt skills in BJJ and probably had poor grappling defense. It makes you a sitting duck on the ground. Your opponent also has a big heart so rocking him just made him more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelung Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Not really. You gave your fighter white belt skills in BJJ and probably had poor grappling defense. It makes you a sitting duck on the ground. Your opponent also has a big heart so rocking him just made him more dangerous. Mediocre+ and are you serious? Getting hurt makes him better? That's a really ridiculous idea. I wouldn't care about getting subbed by someone with better BJJ but it shouldn't occur seconds after he gets floored by a shot. If the solution for stand up fighters is to simply never follow a hurt fighter down to finish the fight then this is a laughably unrealistic "sim" and if the solution is to have good BJJ then why not just make a submission fighter and spam takedowns non stop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backelie Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 I think the way Big Heart works is not bad at all. Depending on tactics it might not come in to play in most fights, and you have to relinquish some other good trait to pick it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2009 Report Share Posted June 21, 2009 Mediocre+ and are you serious? Getting hurt makes him better? That's a really ridiculous idea. I wouldn't care about getting subbed by someone with better BJJ but it shouldn't occur seconds after he gets floored by a shot. If the solution for stand up fighters is to simply never follow a hurt fighter down to finish the fight then this is a laughably unrealistic "sim" and if the solution is to have good BJJ then why not just make a submission fighter and spam takedowns non stop? http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=New_users_guide http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=Fighter_skills Read those both twice. Yes, getting hurt made him better. Some fighters actually do operate this way. A good (possibly extreme) example of this would be Fedor. A lot of people were all amazed at how Arlovski was fighting him then Fedor shut his lights off. Randleman almost killed him with a head-first German suplex and Fedor responded by submitting the poor sap 30 seconds later. For some people, taking damage (sometimes even small amounts) just flips a switch to destroy their opponent. Intelligence, experience, heart, chin, injury prone-level, killer instinct, self confidence, cuts and fast learning are the nine hidden attributes in the game. When you first create your fighter, there are three boxes at the bottom that can influence them. He obviously selected the big heart option. The solution for stand up fighters isn't to never follow a hurt fighter down to finish them. You merely poorly designed your fighter. A white belt in BJJ is still UNACCEPTABLE. This is a sport that was built on being an advertisement for Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Your fighter's poor numbers in the stat made his ability to pull guard pretty laughable. The solution isn't necessary good or great BJJ, but at least blue belt. The belt rankings in BJJ are white, blue, purple, brown, black, and red. Spamming Takedowns isn't feasible either. Failed takedown attempts wear you out and BJJ alone will not make you successful at taking down your opponent. Your fighter will need good wrestling, good takedowns, and good speed to execute them. However, making your fighter so limited is why Matt Hughes reign on top at Welterweight saw such a pitiful downfall. He began encountering opponents who were his equal on the ground, negating his ability to take them down, but they were more well-rounded and he'd get pummeled standing up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulletti Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 This fight was fought just an hour ago. I´m little bit annoyed about what my fighter ,Lee Cheung Pak,did. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=12704 My fighter was 16cm taller that Aoki, and Cheung has competent muya thai, good kicks etc etc. Aoki has better bjj skills, so it´s obvious what´s your fighter´s gameplan is! Keep distance, stay on the outside, stay standing and don´t clinch. The fight instructions for Cheung were these: Follow my orders (approx.) 92% ( meaning the slider is allmost on the end of that side), Stick to gameplan 95%, Stay standing 95%, Stay on the outside 95%. So they were as they should be when you have a fightplan like above. And what my fighter does when the bell rangs??!! First move in the fight: " Cheung Pak fails miserably with a takedown attempt." WTF!!!!!???? After that the opponent scores a takedown and that´s it. I don´t have any problems with the outcome of the fight. I knew that if Aoki gets a takedown my guy is in serious trouble. But why the fuck my guy didn´t do anything i ordered him to do, infact he did the only thing i DIDN`T wan´t him to do, try takedown!! Some settings ain´t quite right, do i have to put every slider to 100% if wan´t my fighter to do or avoid something??? When fighter is ordered to do something over 90% of the time/moves, that should signal to the fightprogram(...or something?) that this is what my guy is really going and trying to do. Like i said, I don´t complain about the result of the fight, but here´s one element that i think should be checked and maybe fixxed. Or maybe my fighter is just a dumb idiot that doesn´t even know his name or understand what he´s told, or maybe ´cos he´s from north korea, Cheung Pak just doesn´t understand english!!?? If that´s the reason, Mike, when the korean version of the mmatycoon is coming out??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 This fight was fought just an hour ago. I´m little bit annoyed about what my fighter ,Lee Cheung Pak,did. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=12704 The fight instructions for Cheung were these: Follow my orders (approx.) 92% ( meaning the slider is allmost on the end of that side), Stick to gameplan 95%, Stay standing 95%, Stay on the outside 95%. So they were as they should be when you have a fightplan like above. Try putting the follow orders and stick to gameplan to 100%. That's my fighter btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sekert Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The fight instructions for Cheung were these: Follow my orders (approx.) 92% ( meaning the slider is allmost on the end of that side), Stick to gameplan 95%, Stay standing 95% There is your answer on why your fighter tried a takedown. Simple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleventhsun Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 were early in the evolution of MMA. did you see Royce Gracie sub all those white-belts? thats where were at . That's absolutely the best way of looking at it. We are the beginning of MMA in our world here. I mean, the highest BJJ guys are only brown belts, and for the most part when you make a fighter, if you even all his stats, he's still really only competent and mediocre at most things, not too far from now we will have guys that are good at all 4 styles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentor Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 were early in the evolution of MMA. did you see Royce Gracie sub all those white-belts? thats where were at . Basically yeah, most fighters are one sided and those which are not are too flat and not much of a threat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulletti Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Try putting the follow orders and stick to gameplan to 100%. That's my fighter btw. Congrats for the win. There is your answer on why your fighter tried a takedown. Simple as that But come on, there should be some kind of "common sense"-factor here. If a fighter tactics is set over 90% of something,it should also mean something. I mean, lets assume,if the slider is set to 99,9% that should show what the fighter is trying to do almost all the time,especially in the beginning of the fight,even if there is that 0,1% chance of doing the opposite. The 99,9% prosent doesn´t mean a thing if the first thing he does is the move that you wan´t him to do only 0,1% prosent of the time. I think that especially in the beginning of the fights ,when the fighters are fresh and have energy and still remember what their fight-strategy is,( just like in the real world, when you get tired you get sloppy and make mistakes), fighters should stay with the majority tactics set. When the fight goes on,fighters get tired, they could start/try doing the things and moves that they aren´t set to do quite often. I know, i didn´t set the sliders to 100%, so my fault. I let there to be some 5%-8% chance my guy could do the thing that i really didn´t want him to do early in the fight. The mmatycoon is just starting out, and that´s the reason i keep nagging about this thing. I wan´t this game to evolve and keep getting better and better.And even more realistic, as much as it can be. I love this game and really appreciate the work that the creator/s have made. Just wanna give an element to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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