JamesCozad Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 im not really sold on granite chin anymore -- i rather have heart and its usually the first hidden i pick -- just see so many granite chin fighters getting ko'ed -- heart sort of acts like a chin helper plus extra -- intelligence is another one i like and feel is needed -- confidence is good one although you can work around bad confidence is still pretty tough to do I feel exactly the same. Granite chin seems even less relevant/helpful at heavier weight classes too. It's still important, but I think it's overrated and people may put too much stock into it. I'd rather have a fighter with higher heart than chin tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazlarips Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Sorry in advance for this noob question, but whats TWGC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madbob Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 Sorry in advance for this noob question, but whats TWGC? Have a lock http://mmatycoon.com/twgc.php it is a grappling tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpierrecanada Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 No matter what the build, i always pick granite chin, KO power and heart. The rest are nice to have, but only if you survive long enough for them to be used. Chin is obvious, whatever the build your guy needs a chin. KO power, obvs for strikers its important but there will come a point in your grapplers career where he wont be able to sruvive just on his grappling chops, if his grappling doesnt get it done some KO power would be great for him. Heart is huge imo, if your guy has a granite chin but no heart he will just turn into a punching bag, and also helps survival odds on the ground. This, chin, KO or heart is good signs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=762972 Why a big heart can be awesome at times. Look how fast he got his legs back and just seemed to get ticked off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted September 14, 2015 Report Share Posted September 14, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=762972 Why a big heart can be awesome at times. Look how fast he got his legs back and just seemed to get ticked off Yeah man, big heart is amazing to have at 205 and 265lbs. They are both division where even Granite chin and high SD won't stop you from getting rocked. There is just too much power at that weight. At lower weights you can get away with not having good heart but bad heart at 205 and 265 is a death sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.J Posted September 15, 2015 Report Share Posted September 15, 2015 G.chin,B.heart and KO power.i say fuck off to the rest of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Yeah man, big heart is amazing to have at 205 and 265lbs. They are both division where even Granite chin and high SD won't stop you from getting rocked. There is just too much power at that weight. At lower weights you can get away with not having good heart but bad heart at 205 and 265 is a death sentence. Having an awful hurt can suck at any weight class tbh but I do favor heart over granite at those higher weight classes because it's not that hard to KO granites at those weight classes. But I have had a granite w/ 0 heart before and he still seemed to get ko'd to guys throwing accuracy fairly often. http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=183874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortfuse122829 Posted September 16, 2015 Report Share Posted September 16, 2015 Danny Power didn't have the greatest chin but his issue was more heart than chin IMO http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=99879 I've never seen anybody get rocked and not "recover his senses" or "has his legs back now" for a full round or sometimes even longer more than this guy. It used to take him forever to recover from being hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomstick Posted September 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2015 There's been a lot of good information that came from this thread. I'm wondering if it might be more useful to new players pinned in the Noob help thread? I learned a lot from this thread and It seems like some of the more seasoned managers did as well. Thanks for everyone who's joined in the discussion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp61503 Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 The thing about hid dens is with good sliders you can overcome any bad hidden. The most useful IMO is ko power then heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itakebrides Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 The thing about hid dens is with good sliders you can overcome any bad hidden. The most useful IMO is ko power then heart. I don't know about that .If there other hiddens or out of this world you can over come low confidence and intelligent maybe even being pillow fisted with sliders but if your fighter is a very bad cutter/ has a glass jaw or your heart is in the shitter no sliders fu can help you.Any fighter with any of these should be on his way to bum town after you sack his ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 Thanks for starting this and everyone's input. A lot to take in with all the different opinions but that's what makes games like this enjoyable, nothing is cut and dry and it makes you think rather than those everyone's a winner BS games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 The thing about hid dens is with good sliders you can overcome any bad hidden. The most useful IMO is ko power then heart. ... Bro... No... Just no. That is not good advice to give. Not trying to be mean but that's just wrong and telling people that will get them rekt when the time comes. There is no slider fu for a glass jaw. You can duck and fight them against cans but that goes against the morality of the game, at least for me. Glass jaw is death, bad heart is super death at heavier weight classes and cuts no matter what sliders you use will always creep up on you in an important fight and leave you with that lovely TKO(Cut) loss that leaves you fuming after reading the play by play. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 ... Bro... No... Just no. That is not good advice to give. Not trying to be mean but that's just wrong and telling people that will get them rekt when the time comes. There is no slider fu for a glass jaw. You can duck and fight them against cans but that goes against the morality of the game, at least for me. Glass jaw is death, bad heart is super death at heavier weight classes and cuts no matter what sliders you use will always creep up on you in an important fight and leave you with that lovely TKO(Cut) loss that leaves you fuming after reading the play by play. Yea, that's what I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjornmma1 Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 ... Bro... No... Just no. That is not good advice to give. Not trying to be mean but that's just wrong and telling people that will get them rekt when the time comes. There is no slider fu for a glass jaw. You can duck and fight them against cans but that goes against the morality of the game, at least for me. Glass jaw is death, bad heart is super death at heavier weight classes and cuts no matter what sliders you use will always creep up on you in an important fight and leave you with that lovely TKO(Cut) loss that leaves you fuming after reading the play by play. To be honest, it's not impossible to fight well with a guy with a bad chin and still fight tough opponents. Sure, he is not going to become an elite top level fighter, but I managed to get one to a title shot at a top org were he dominated the entire title fight until he got KO'd in the last minute of the 5 round fight. If he would have had a good chin, he would have been a top level fighter. If one hidden is bad but all the others are good, he can still be a very decent fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyosullivan Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 To be honest, it's not impossible to fight well with a guy with a bad chin and still fight tough opponents. Sure, he is not going to become an elite top level fighter, but I managed to get one to a title shot at a top org were he dominated the entire title fight until he got KO'd in the last minute of the 5 round fight. If he would have had a good chin, he would have been a top level fighter. If one hidden is bad but all the others are good, he can still be a very decent fighter. Sounds like Leroy Morris. Managed to beat some big names, but his chin let him down when it came to fighting the elite fighters in the top orgs in the game: http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=142483 Managed to get him to 565th in the world, think that's my best out of all my fighters so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted September 22, 2015 Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 To be honest, it's not impossible to fight well with a guy with a bad chin and still fight tough opponents. Sure, he is not going to become an elite top level fighter, but I managed to get one to a title shot at a top org were he dominated the entire title fight until he got KO'd in the last minute of the 5 round fight. If he would have had a good chin, he would have been a top level fighter. If one hidden is bad but all the others are good, he can still be a very decent fighter. What you say is true but you also make my point in your post. So your guy had a good manager, good sliders, dominated a title fight and his chin STILL failed him. You are right tho, a bad chin doesn't mean he is a can but it also means any top guy will destroy him because they are likely going to have amazing chins, heart and good KO power. I am also not condoning insta-sacks based on one bad hidden because everyone has their standards and their own preferences. I myself am shooting to have the best roster possible so to have someone who cuts badly(and a bad build) like Cutwood http://mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilepublic.php?FID=158691, despite me doing very well with him (like you said, it's possible to still have a decent fighter) he let me down any time someone went high damage and it was just something that repeatedly happened through out his career. Much like the guy you mentioned with his chin, he may do well but that chin is gonna fail him more and more the higher level of competition he faces. Good sliders will win you fights with most fighters at the lower levels of competition unless your creations are complete duds. But the higher you go, the better managers you face and the better fighters you face(hidden AND build) the more your own creation's shortcomings in the hidden department are going to be exposed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp61503 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 ....bro.... no..... What I said is true your example of chin is perfect look over history and now see all the fighters who made it into the top 100 with sub par chins. Look at our very own mmatycoon hof. There are 41 fighters in it. Out of those 10 had 10 or more knockout losses 11 had 5-9 (t)ko losses. So 21 out of the 41 former p4p #1 fighters overcame a poor chin. You can overcome a bad hidden Its not easy though. ... Bro... No... Just no. That is not good advice to give. Not trying to be mean but that's just wrong and telling people that will get them rekt when the time comes. There is no slider fu for a glass jaw. You can duck and fight them against cans but that goes against the morality of the game, at least for me. Glass jaw is death, bad heart is super death at heavier weight classes and cuts no matter what sliders you use will always creep up on you in an important fight and leave you with that lovely TKO(Cut) loss that leaves you fuming after reading the play by play. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 ....bro.... no..... What I said is true your example of chin is perfect look over history and now see all the fighters who made it into the top 100 with sub par chins. Look at our very own mmatycoon hof. There are 41 fighters in it. Out of those 10 had 10 or more knockout losses 11 had 5-9 (t)ko losses. So 21 out of the 41 former p4p #1 fighters overcame a poor chin. You can overcome a bad hidden Its not easy though. How many of those were Heavyweight fighters? Even having a Granite Chin doesn't mean you will avoid KO losses with body gassing at heavier weights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 ....bro.... no..... What I said is true your example of chin is perfect look over history and now see all the fighters who made it into the top 100 with sub par chins. Look at our very own mmatycoon hof. There are 41 fighters in it. Out of those 10 had 10 or more knockout losses 11 had 5-9 (t)ko losses. So 21 out of the 41 former p4p #1 fighters overcame a poor chin. You can overcome a bad hidden Its not easy though. Yeah I don't disagree with what you're saying him but I really wasn't talking about subpar chins or even bad chins. I am talking about bum chins, the real bad hiddens... where you can get KOd in 5 seconds and not a slider you set can change that fate. It is possible to overcome a bad chin but it's still a weakness that will hold your fighter down and lose you fights you should of won. Conor made a good point in Skype about it being all circumstantial, it all depends on how bad your hidden is, your sliders, the opponents you face, their hiddens, their manager's sliders and then some plain on luck on the dice roll. Also it should be stressed that if you look at the #1 P4P fighters and how many KO losses they have it can be misleading. Almost all over them had average chins or even decent chins but they were facing the cream of the crop, best of the best of completion in most cases. Almost every top 10 fighter out there has a great combination of hiddens and usually KO power. Getting 12 (t)ko losses by guys with 100-150 level KO power is different than getting KOd by a guy who popped intelligent for example. Like I said with Bjorn, your points are very valid tho. It is possible to have a good fighter with a mediocre chin if the circumstances work out for you and you always have a good gameplan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I hate how terms develop. "Body gassing". It reminds me of people saying "camping" or "hard scoping" in Call of Duty. What's up with a big guy hitting another guy to the body to tire him out? Seems legit. Protect your ribs if you don't want to get hit in the ribs... Hard scopings worse though. Hard scoping is just using a sniper rifle the way it's intended, the fuck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBK16 Posted September 23, 2015 Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 I hate how terms develop. "Body gassing". It reminds me of people saying "camping" or "hard scoping" in Call of Duty. What's up with a big guy hitting another guy to the body to tire him out? Seems legit. Protect your ribs if you don't want to get hit in the ribs... Hard scopings worse though. Hard scoping is just using a sniper rifle the way it's intended, the fuck? Body Gassing is a legit tactic, and a lot of Heavyweight fights basically come down to who can gas the other fighter first. You can have popped a 150 Granite Chin, but if you are gassed, that won't hold up for long. I'm not slating body gassing, I am just pointing out that a lot of (T)KO losses at heavier weights come as a result of it and it doesn't really depend on how good your opponent's chin is. I do also have to point out that if you don't have Heart at Heavier weights, you will also fall to this a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Body Gassing is a legit tactic, and a lot of Heavyweight fights basically come down to who can gas the other fighter first. You can have popped a 150 Granite Chin, but if you are gassed, that won't hold up for long. I'm not slating body gassing, I am just pointing out that a lot of (T)KO losses at heavier weights come as a result of it and it doesn't really depend on how good your opponent's chin is. I do also have to point out that if you don't have Heart at Heavier weights, you will also fall to this a lot easier. Acutally it isn't body gassing. It's "spam" body gassing. Seen a few people say that like body punches all the time is "spam". Maybe if we're playing Fight Night or something haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 Acutally it isn't body gassing. It's "spam" body gassing. Seen a few people say that like body punches all the time is "spam". Maybe if we're playing Fight Night or something haha. never heard of spam body gassing before in my life, i have heard of sub spamming but in order to get an effective body gas a certain amount of body punches, body kicks and leg kicks to a lesser extent is involved. There are a few tactics at heavyweight but the preferred method is body gassing. As far as the chin situation, it is easier to survive at smaller weights 170 and below with a weak chin, the lower you go the less need for the chin. Granite chins really come into play at ww,mw and lhw but at heavyweight it is more leaned towards KO power than a great chin, that being said you still need at least a solid chin so you can eat a shot or two at heavyweight or a godlike heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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