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a note to mike tycoon


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nice to see you came back noticed you were gone for little while -- this has been brought up about bringing back learning speed to what it was before and making the curve much harder at higher levels which i feel is a good idea -- would like to see what others think like wolf, shiv, mickey knuckles and others that have come back think also -- but some of them work with others so it might be easier for them -- that is a big key also to the game networking -- its not a have too but it does help

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i hate to agree cuz as some1 who's been around for a while i do love this game, but i also have a friend who just joined recently....and i helped him get set up cuz being an older player i have connections that have benefited him as well....but when he first made new fighters i told him to put them in NY and join a gym, only to find that the public gyms in NY are pretty terrible. Not cuz of the amount of ppl who are in them, but looking at equipment and cleanliness, so i realized well ur gonna need to find a way to not use public gyms...cuz if he was in a position he needed to do that, i guarantee he would lose interest in this game very quickly

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i hate to agree cuz as some1 who's been around for a while i do love this game, but i also have a friend who just joined recently....and i helped him get set up cuz being an older player i have connections that have benefited him as well....but when he first made new fighters i told him to put them in NY and join a gym, only to find that the public gyms in NY are pretty terrible. Not cuz of the amount of ppl who are in them, but looking at equipment and cleanliness, so i realized well ur gonna need to find a way to not use public gyms...cuz if he was in a position he needed to do that, i guarantee he would lose interest in this game very quickly

i tried to help the public gym scene in NY a couple of months back, never got close to being able to break even, the best i got was 59 members for a day but i was usually around 55 members, my gym needed about 75 to break even. anyway enough of that, shiv and wolfenstein have returned to the game shiv is now hysteria in the forums and wolfenstein is swansong

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ya i know, but it is a MAJOR problem to the development of this game. First of all in public gym it takes ages to build a good fighter, so watching ur guy grow along at snails pace while there are so many monsters out there as is, very tough to deal with. you feel overwhelmed that u will NEVER close that gap. But it's hard just to find a decent gym as it is when ur a noob who also has limited options on making money in this game. Sure you can work for a company and make 5k a week, but getting companies started are very tough these days. The only real viable option for making money would be an org, and there are so many orgs out there it is tough to get 1 started ESPECIALLY if you are not active in chat or forums and getting connected.

 

i lucked into this game when i first started, i came to chat almost 1st day. had some1 take me under their wing, teach me fighter builds and sliders. then i got into an alliance within first few months of playing and had old timers in game like pureevil, didm, captain kid and manfred all offering sponsors to my fighters back in the day (large reason i always wanted to be TFP). Then i joined hitsquad and igor took care of me there. i made bots to get into private gyms (which now bots are pretty useless) and then once i was in hitsquad a while all my guys got into private gyms.

 

without all that stuff happening i might've never made it 2 yrs in game. so catering to ppl like me doesn't help this game grow and continue getting new players (cuz lets be honest, most old ones leave after so long)

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I am used to playing games at a steady pace and even i must admit the training time for my fighters takes the piss. I usually have to dip into the free agency and after talking to a few managers about training speed they say its best for it. Cutting down the weeks fighters age but not improving the speed that they train at? In other games i played such as Evony at least i could pay to speed things up which kept my interest in it.

 

What people who approve the changes say is that fighters will eventually die out and it will be a even playing field. That is true but what happens when its only those managers saying it to fight against each other? Because if i never had other things to do and talking to some of the people in it, i would have forgotten about this game along time ago and that will be the case in a lot of new members looking to join.

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New managers/fighters just have to realize they cant jump straight into the UFC (equivalent of) right away. There are plenty of orgs out there for every level of fighter. If your fighter is only proficient then fight other proficient fighters until your fighter is strong then take the appropriate step up in competition. I have 14 fighters that have been created in 2 months or less and personally I don't find that their progression is unreasonable for the amount of time put in but then again I wasn't around before the training changes so I never got to see how good it was. I have to admit I would be pretty damn bored if I only had 5 fighters.

 

My org is thriving with new players and from what I can tell most people seem pretty happy to be fighting in the bush leagues while their fighter progresses. I'm not one of those guys that can do nothing but train for a year before fighting. What a waste, just jump right in and fight against other rookies. I'm a new player myself and I'm having a blast. Sure I'm a little envious of all the beasts out there but I know I will get there eventually and I'm OK if I have to take a few loses along the way and maybe a couple extra months of training due to taking fights along the way. Not a big deal to me...

 

I'm not disagreeing with the OP, of course I'd like to see the game improve and retain new players. I'm just giving a different perspective.

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Glad to see edwardsfan back, have a lot to say i'll type it later.

 

 

My org is thriving with new players and from what I can tell most people seem pretty happy to be fighting in the bush leagues while their fighter progresses.

 

 

That's the thing to do.

Maybe some thing can be improved like org with limited skills amount.

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It's kind of a pendulum thing. Maybe, just maybe, the pendulum swung too far in one direction. If he pulls back just a little, that might be nice. But no way in hell should it be like it was before the changes.

 

If it goes back to "skills, skills, skills" it's not going to help new managers that much either. New managers can't afford too much private training, and one-on-one is unheard of in the public sector unless you catch an odd session here or there. It'll go back to the guys with the most money and the most connections(and the most accounts), grinding out new primary beasts every few months. That sounds just as unappealing as the fairly accurate picture e-fan painted above.

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While I'd agree public gym situations can be pretty shitty, the speed fighters learn at is significantly higher than public gym learning in the past. The issue is more what edfan is talking about: learning speed and how damn slow it is. It's nice to see another veteran voice agree with what newer players have been saying for a while. The game is so slow for no real reason. Mike could literally double the speed of fighter training, and it'd still be considered a slow game. Even in the grindy-est games, it does not take a fighter a real life year of good training to break into "end game" fighting. I started about a year ago, and my second oldest fighter is my guess at what Mike was looking for in typical play style. He spent most of his time in public gyms, and fought basically every month. But he's still nowhere near the beasts that are around right now.

 

I believe the game is strong enough with the creativity of our community and the depth of the fight engine to survive without this artificial delay in gratification. I'd prefer a shift toward shorter fight cycles so players are in the thick of things way quicker. We'd build more fighters, be more willing to experiment, and generally fight more often. I know there's a fear people will get bored and quit just because they've seen everything faster but would these people really stick around for years in the first place? The people who like this game are a special breed so making it more fun by making it faster will only help us stay longer. Think of it more like playing a game you love over and over again versus a game you know you like but only really get to play through once or twice because of bloated timer filler quests.

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I started 9 months ago, which makes me pretty late to the game in terms of first time playing. I have the luxury of having come in knowing some established players, but still a new experience despite the advantages in training I've gotten by starting out with connections.

 

And I will tell you what the most important aspect of the game to my experience has been. And it's Organization owners. I don't care how good/crappy the stage of my fighter's development is, if the Org gives me fights I feel I have a chance to win at my requested intervals, it's fun. If the Org keeps the skill level of the roster balanced so that my guy can compete near the top of the ranks, it's even better.

 

The only disheartening part of the game for me, is when a balanced competitive roster brings in a 'ringer' who will dominate the ranks indefinitely, or the owner offers unfair fights (which I decline) and then doesn't offer another for a month.

 

I haven't gotten to the sensational+ across the board stage yet, and that's fine with me. But that's the difference between where I'm at and where Edwardsfan is at. You've been to the top of the ranks I assume, and done the 'super fights', and maybe had everyone know the name of some of your fighters. So of course playing the game without that is going to be less fun. But personally, I'm having a real good time trying to win small and mid tier organization titles.

 

If there were one complaint I have, it'd be the lack of a place where new players can fight frequently without the inevitability of their 'ready to fight' 25 yo creation being obsolete, because Orgs just can't maintain that low a level of talent for long. For those like myself, who have entered into a 'long term' situation involving commitments to projects and sparbot contributions, my frequency of fights will be a little lower than I'd like over the next 6 to 9 months.

 

Perhaps something QFC-like, where all fighters created at 25 are eligible indefinitely. Just an endless source of guaranteed even'ish matchups at a high frequency, to allow me to have a lot of fights while the rest of the roster is being established would be a solution?

 

But overall, outside of having to settle for 2 fights a week, I have no complaints. I certainly see that there is going to be a gap between skill of various generations, but I'm not planning on sweating it. I'll just look to be the best of my generation and not worry about the older fighters if they have far superior stats.

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I Still say it is time for Private coaches. That way the newer guys who win some fights and make some money can get equal training as anyone on the game can. The best way to be fair is allow people who are successful the best possible training, and right now that is not possible IMO. If he allows the private coaches in gyms it iwll make money for gyms and allow people better training.

 

 

 

My second feeling is an idea I heardfrom a friend who plays here, and that is to make the early skills move faster and the higher ones move slower. I totally agree with his idea. Up until wonderful I think skills shoud move really fast. From there they can gradually slow. At wonderful people will still be competitive with almost anyone.

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I Still say it is time for Private coaches. That way the newer guys who win some fights and make some money can get equal training as anyone on the game can. The best way to be fair is allow people who are successful the best possible training, and right now that is not possible IMO. If he allows the private coaches in gyms it iwll make money for gyms and allow people better training.

 

 

 

My second feeling is an idea I heardfrom a friend who plays here, and that is to make the early skills move faster and the higher ones move slower. I totally agree with his idea. Up until wonderful I think skills shoud move really fast. From there they can gradually slow. At wonderful people will still be competitive with almost anyone.

 

I like both those idea's a lot. It would solve a lot of these problems for sure.

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One idea I discussed with Mike recently was while he is looking at the speed of early training adding named skill levels for fighters below say 60 skill points at 5 point intervals instead of 10. For example at 5 points you would go from Useless to Learning ( or something). This would make a noticeable pop possible in the first couple sessions in most public gyms and make managers a lot more likely to  log in on day 2 without actiually changing the games mechanics. I don't think this is the only thing that should be done, but it would certainly help in the meantime.

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One idea I discussed with Mike recently was while he is looking at the speed of early training adding named skill levels for fighters below say 60 skill points at 5 point intervals instead of 10. For example at 5 points you would go from Useless to Learning ( or something). This would make a noticeable pop possible in the first couple sessions in most public gyms and make managers a lot more likely to  log in on day 2 without actiually changing the games mechanics. I don't think this is the only thing that should be done, but it would certainly help in the meantime.

 

That is just making them think its doing good, but not actually letting them compete. Which is the serious problem.

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I was really against the tickers at first and actually concidered quitting the game becouse of it but ive learned to deal with it and i dont give it much thought anymore.

 

The learning speed though is a real bitch and takes all the fun out of making new fighters for me hence why i havent made a new fighters since the changes. So i really feel for the new players who has to make fighters these days. Some might say that they are perfectly fine with fighting in mid tier orgs but for those who want to become the best its not fun at all i sure as hell wouldnt stick around if i knew that i probably wouldnt be able to catch up if i didnt just let my fighters rot in a gym for a year or so if thats even enough.

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first of all, edfan...thank u for ur post. second, i'm not quitting even tho, at times, i'd like to. lol. i really hope mike doesn't read all of these posts by us and just say "fuk it" and shuts it down. please, no. i do need to get this off my chest, even tho it's such a small portion of what i have to say. i haven't been around as much as usual and it's given me a lot of time to think of why. something i never really thought of before. i don't have all the answers, or the solutions. but i think that after we had a few "knee-jerk" reactions (by the forums, NOT mike), we've all had a bit more time to see what's really going on and make a much better appraisal of it all.

 

when everyone was in an uproar about training changes, i made a statement that up until now, i didn't think would come true.

 

"the game has gotten more realistic, but less fun."

 

i'm not speaking for new users, becuz i'm not one. i don't kno what it's like. i remember what it was like for me but the game was sooo different then. if ur new and don't believe me, pm me sometime and i'll list it all out...or catch a vet in chat. the training, the sparring, the org dollars, the supp and clothing companies, the fight engine, everything...all completely different. most of it for the better, but obviously, u gotta take some good with the bad.

 

is the game perfect? no. could it be? no.

 

let's see...a large group wanted training changes. they said the training was too easy...set for the week and go. no thought into it. checkers to chess...well, i think it's just as easy to set training now. hell, we got these little tickers that tell us what to train and when to train it. difference is, we see less pops.

now, with my current roster in the old system, i'd prolly see less pops anyway becuz the levels are a lot higher, thus taking longer to pop. it's my younger guys...it's not that i want them to be beasts to compete at high levels. it's just...there's no reason to log in daily and chek my TA cuz nothing is there. i'm not concerned about an advantage...i'm concerned about FUN.

 

the fight engine...people wanted counter-nerfed. maybe it got nerfed too much? it's just not a viable option. sure, at lower levels it's still usable and at higher levels, u get some exceptions...but that's the same way it was with the counter-era. there WERE exceptions. a few people said they never lost at 100% counter...well, i have personal experience of losing at 100% counter, altho i did win more than i lost...it was still loseable. just like now, with the aggro advantage, there are those same exceptions...but everyone seems a bit more ok with it becuz there's more finishes which means better ratings and more "excitement". well, a fight that lasts less than 2 minutes where one guy stands like a punching bag is not exciting to me.

 

i've been asking a lot of managers if they have any kind of handle on the engine...from aggro, to counter and from takedowns to height/weight advantages and most, not all, have nothing...no clue, myself included. i feel like it's so erratic, i might as well not scout and bust ass trying to gameplan. i might as well, set it to go down swingin cuz at any time, the rng will just make my guy lose...or win. see? it's not the losses that bother me. it's not the fact that i don't kno why i lost a fight...it's that i don't kno why i win the fights i win either. it just doesn't make any sense.

obviously, i havent pm'd every single manager. i believe there are a few guys out there that really feel like they have a handle on things. so to those guys...pm me please. yes, i am asking for help. i want to love this game again and i just can't seem to give enuff of a fuk about it right now. couple that with the lack of wanting to make a new fighter, something i think might light a fire again, becuz of the slooow training at the start (cardio and strength were slow enuff before the changes, ugggh).

 

i'll re-post this as well. just to show that i don't want anything THAT drastic when it comes to the training aspect of the game. and yeah, what's fun to me may not be fun to everyone else so i understand if anyone gets in here and flames it up. i like chess cuz it makes u think but holy mother of the falsechrist, it is boring as fuuuuuuk. lol.

 

a scenario i'd like to see is:

 

-training speed back to where it was (faster than current)

-faster decline/ticker/trigger system starting at 30

-keep the class size gains where they're at to promote/help public gyms

 

this would keep new fighters flowing into the game and old fighters actually getting old and leaving becuz of it. it let's us see pops but becuz 30 is the age limit (not really limit but where ur choice begins to keep or release due to decline), i think u'd see less project fighters and more people fighting earlier in their careers trying to get a nice amount of fights in before he starts to decline. i have no prob wit trip-excep or even dub-sens on a guy that has 10 or more fights. i didn't have a prob with it on a guy that's 0-0 but a lot of people did which lead us to where we are now...a game where i couldn't care less about making a new fighter and i can check my TA once every 2-3 days (as opposed to daily before changes) and still not see much improvement.

 

it's not for an advantage for older players...it's for some fukn fun. the fun u have when u see improvement at younger levels, a plateau and an eventual decline which makes u make a decision on whether or not to keep a fighter u may or may not be attached to.

 

just an idea. it would make the game a bit more faster and less stagnant, imo.

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I think / know counter is still a viable option.

 

I think training should be twice as fast as it is now for the first or second year of the fighters existence, and maybe a random year after that. Should just be a period where the fighters training is twice as fast, cuz it's god awful painfully slow. I understand it being hard at the higher levels, but should not be this hard to train a useless-- stat up to feeble. I think realistically, two weeks of training (take into account this games aging system means that our week of training isn't a week of training to the fighter since a year to them is like 2-3 IRL months) and you're mediocre at it. I know it didn't take me months and months to learn an armbar or kimura. Took a day to learn. A week to get comfortable with. Two weeks and I think I was more than competent at submissions. Not that I was wonderful, or remarkable at it, but I was definitely more than competent. Wonderful to elite is a different story than useless to competent. Shouldn't take 4 sessions to go from useless- abysmal- if my fighter has competent wrestling primary, no matter how slow of a learner you are. That's like, real life, super-realistic, maybe even slower than RL training.

 

If you're worried about projects becoming an issue, maybe make it something like, X amount of days after your fighter fights his training is sped up by X amount? Not sure if that's possible but might motivate people to select the "never gets injured" hidden a lot more.

 

 

I don't really see any major flaws with the fight engine. You can win going counter, you can win going aggressive, you can win going 100% see how it goes, there's lots of winning strategies.

 

 

Training however, I'm sure turns away any potential new managers when they're looking at the top fighters stats all day and see no progression what so ever.

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I think / know counter is still a viable option.

 

I think training should be twice as fast as it is now for the first or second year of the fighters existence, and maybe a random year after that. Should just be a period where the fighters training is twice as fast, cuz it's god awful painfully slow. I understand it being hard at the higher levels, but should not be this hard to train a useless-- stat up to feeble. I think realistically, two weeks of training (take into account this games aging system means that our week of training isn't a week of training to the fighter since a year to them is like 2-3 IRL months) and you're mediocre at it. I know it didn't take me months and months to learn an armbar or kimura. Took a day to learn. A week to get comfortable with. Two weeks and I think I was more than competent at submissions. Not that I was wonderful, or remarkable at it, but I was definitely more than competent. Wonderful to elite is a different story than useless to competent. Shouldn't take 4 sessions to go from useless- abysmal- if my fighter has competent wrestling primary, no matter how slow of a learner you are. That's like, real life, super-realistic, maybe even slower than RL training.

 

If you're worried about projects becoming an issue, maybe make it something like, X amount of days after your fighter fights his training is sped up by X amount? Not sure if that's possible but might motivate people to select the "never gets injured" hidden a lot more.

 

 

I don't really see any major flaws with the fight engine. You can win going counter, you can win going aggressive, you can win going 100% see how it goes, there's lots of winning strategies.

 

 

Training however, I'm sure turns away any potential new managers when they're looking at the top fighters stats all day and see no progression what so ever.

 

 

it was designed to be slower at the lower levels (below Feeble) to discourage the Wonderful/Useless/Useless/Useless builds.

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it was designed to be slower at the lower levels (below Feeble) to discourage the Wonderful/Useless/Useless/Useless builds.

 

A kid with ADHD without his meds could learn Jui-jitsu faster in a month or two than a fighter in this game can in 1 in game year.

 

I think there's nothing wrong with those builds. Most fighters IRL come from a "specialty" background. Boxer, Kick Boxer/MT fighter, Wrestler from highschool/college, or a jui-jitsu practioner that wants to transition to MMA. I could list countless, and countless, examples of IRL fighters that fit those molds when becoming a MMA fighter.

 

Seriously, my project with competent wrestling, 4-5 takedown defense session for abysmal-. That's one on one with an elite coach. Basically like paying to train with Freddie Roach and not learning a thing in two-three IRL weeks.

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