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Bankruptcy


WhisperingDeath

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I was thinking today. Losing VIP is kind of a rough penalty to pay for mismanaging a company in MMATycoon. It's a large investment in time to run these companies and I think a lot of people don't quite realize what they're getting into.

 

It's a natural course of capitalism for companies to fail, and I have a feeling it's going to be a bit more accelerated in MMATycoon because most users don't have the letters MBA at the end of their name.

 

So I was wondering if there was some kind of way for a player to declare "bankruptcy" if he realizes he's in over his head. He'd have to give up all his businesses and maybe his account wouldn't be allowed to start a new business for 6-months or something. Or maybe he wouldn't be able to start a new business until he had paid off his debt through managing successful fighters. But the end result is he wouldn't have to lose his 10 fighters and could keep playing the game.

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yeah cos in some way are people who invest in a year vip harder punished then people that invested into 3 months of vip. You dont take that big of a risk if you subscribe shorter on the vip.

 

I must say, i took for one year vip, and the first week i was thinking the whole time, what did i get myself intoo? i'm gonna lose my vip from first week :)) Glad it turned all good :)

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It looks like we're going to have this thread once per week so I'm going to pin this thread. I wish people would move past the concept of losing money and try to understand why it's there. If it wasn't you'd all be fuming about people mis-managing companies and making your well run companies completely unviable.

 

I have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in earning any more money from people losing their VIP. I do not want anyone to ever lose their VIP. HOWEVER, if this process was not in place, people would spend their loans on an unworkable model and for the 10 or so weeks that their company was in existence before it went bust, they would offer a much better product than you could ever afford to offer as a well run company. This would hurt the people who run their company properly.

 

 

Gyms

Someone could just rock up, open a gym with 5 elite trainers, train their own fighters at the gym for 5 weeks til it went bust, then what? Basically no repercussions? All the fighters at your gym would leave and go train at that gym for those 5 weeks, possibly making your own gym go bankrupt because it has no members for those 5 weeks.

 

Org

$50,000 loan. User signs their fighters to $5,000 signing bonus and doesn't even bother having a fight. The company goes bust, then what? With your method they wouldn't be able to run a company again for 6 months. What if they never wanted to run one in the first place? People who just wanted to have 10 fighters could just open an org, give their fighters all the money then let the org rot.

 

Nutrition

Make 150 rated supplement, order a load of stock then just give it to their own fighters. The company goes bust, then what? As with orgs, they might not even want to run an org and they could basically give their fighters a lifetime of top ranked supplements.

 

Clothing

They could make thousands of t-shirts and give them to their fighters for free. The company goes bust but they wouldnt care cos they didnt want one in the first place.

 

 

 

If anyone can tell me a better way to do it then that's fantastic, I'd ABSOLUTELY LOVE to not have this poisoned sentence of "lose your VIP" because people can't seem to get past the concept of losing their money being unfair. BUT, if we can't figure out a better method, you've all got to stop feeling like it's

a. any risk at all, because it's not if you just take more than 2 seconds to plan what you're doing

b. an attempt to get any more money out of you

c. anything other than a measure to make the game fair for the people who run their companys properly

 

 

I have no problem with people bringing up their concerns but when those concerns potentially prevent someone from buying VIP, then that's very frustrating because you'll never lose your VIP if you act properly and the game would be completely unworkable without this action in place.

 

Managers who have lost their VIP to date = 0

Managers who will ever lose their VIP if they run their companies properly = 0

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i never looked at it in this way, and yes, you definitely have a point there. This is in fact an excellent way to keep clear of cheaters!!

 

Only way it now can be abused, is that people take the shortest vip, and do it like you said they could possibly do it.

 

 

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Gyms seem to be the big one where people can't get their head around what's going on. Someone has just created a gym with 5 elite trainers and NO MEMBERS!

 

I'm going to contact them and sort them out but WTF basically. This is why we need something like this in place. As I say, if there's a better method that's great, let's figure something out together.

 

Whatever system we come up with though CANNOT involve manual policing because just sorting this one gym out (and there's another that I need to sort out too, really), will take me a good hour or so.

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i never looked at it in this way, and yes, you definitely have a point there. This is in fact an excellent way to keep clear of cheaters!!

 

Only way it now can be abused, is that people take the shortest vip, and do it like you said they could possibly do it.

 

It's not even necessarily about cheating. Take the gym created today as an example. That would have lasted 3 weeks tops with 5 elite coaches - the manager wasn't cheating, he just hadn't planned what he was doing. For those 3 weeks his gym would be the best option in that location and any sensible manager would send his fighters to train at that gym. That isn't fair to any other gyms in that location and actually it's not fair to ANY of the other fighters or managers in the game, because fighters training at this non-workable gym are getting better training than fighters training elsewhere, for those 3 weeks.

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yeah gym is a tricky part. i think most of us gym-owners overinvested at first, but when your region hasnt got lots of competition with gyms, you have a lot of chance it will not go broke.

 

But to start in vegas with already 4 good gyms is a tricky part!!

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Gyms seem to be the big one where people can't get their head around what's going on. Someone has just created a gym with 5 elite trainers and NO MEMBERS!

 

I'm going to contact them and sort them out but WTF basically. This is why we need something like this in place. As I say, if there's a better method that's great, let's figure something out together.

 

Whatever system we come up with though CANNOT involve manual policing because just sorting this one gym out (and there's another that I need to sort out too, really), will take me a good hour or so.

 

I agree. I'm deffently feeling some heat here, I just started up my own gym and if been gaining more and more members each day and things where looking good.

And now there is this full elite gym right around there, possibly is going to cost me members, wich could get me into money trouble as well.

He did not only doomed himself but is also hurting others.

If he would just do a simple calculation he would have know that there not even enough fighters in london for him too even afford all that

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Perhaps there needs to be some big red warning signs when you're making a company saying "If you brankrupt your company YOU WILL LOSE YOUR VIP!" "are you sure you want to continue?" like the 'release fighter' button does. So it encourages people to really really really think about it before they just start slinging $50,000 around.

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I'm trying to incorporate more warnings wherever we see persistent problems. Like I've just put one on the gyms page under hire coach. At the end of the day though, it comes down to people not bothering to read anything that I write and just being "man-ish" about stuff and guessing. I do it myself with other things, no doubt about it, but with this game you really need to read instructions. No matter where I put it though, some people will not read it and just click "OK".

 

Having said that though, more checks/notices can't hurt so I'll definitely put some in on company creation.

 

 

Being very serious now, if anyone can come up with a better method, I'm more than happy to entertain ideas and ultimately change to a method that does not mean removing VIP.

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I mailed a guy today who was making a particularly ballsy company move and said 'wow, you're brave' and the response back was "not brave - just high!"

 

Maybe what's needed is a way to save newbies from themselves. I don't know how you could do it. Maybe by using your company's "hype" level to enable certain things. For instance, if your fight org has a hype of XXXX then it can't sign a fighter with hype above YYYY. You know, to prevent a new org from trying to spend $30,000 on getting the #1 p4p fighter or something like that. Or you have to have a gym with hype XXX to unlock trainer level YYY. Something like that.

 

Just throwing out ideas.

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I mailed a guy today who was making a particularly ballsy company move and said 'wow, you're brave' and the response back was "not brave - just high!"

 

Maybe what's needed is a way to save newbies from themselves. I don't know how you could do it. Maybe by using your company's "hype" level to enable certain things. For instance, if your fight org has a hype of XXXX then it can't sign a fighter with hype above YYYY. You know, to prevent a new org from trying to spend $30,000 on getting the #1 p4p fighter or something like that. Or you have to have a gym with hype XXX to unlock trainer level YYY. Something like that.

 

Just throwing out ideas.

 

Yep, good ideas. Keep em coming :)

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This is a tricky issue... when i started up my gym, asking about the loss of my vip was one of the first things I did... seemed like a rough go considering it was the loss of real money spent. I then flipped the script when the 2nd gym in montreal opened up with elite trainers off the bat... I couldn't wait for the 3 weeks that it would take for him to go bankrupt to be up. Today i sent a message to a gym owner in rio who opened up with 12,000 per month worth of trainers and only his members letting him know that he should pace himself... he says he knows now, and he feels like he screwed himself over.

 

Here's the issue: there needs to be a very real penalty for mismanaging companies because that's how you're going to ruin the business dynamics of the game for others who are running things properly. As severe as losing your vip is, I think it's proven to be ineffective because it seems as though at least once a week we have one of these overly hopeful companies popping up that need manual intervention.

 

So.... I'm gonna sit here until I come up with a few ideas.............................

 

What about this... Similar to what you've already done on the start a company screen, but even more dummy proof.

 

When you select start a company, it'll say "So where are you interested in setting up shop?"

 

Deciding on where to start your company can be an important decision. The bigger cities are more likely to have more managers and fighters, but also more likely to have more companies, thus increasing the competition in your area. The smaller cities on the other hand are more likely to have fewer fighters, but fewer companies, thus changing the dynamics of competition in that area. Some companies like clothing and supplement companies do 'online purchasing and shipping' so location may be less important whereas a new fight organization will most likely be restricted to drawing on the local talent so location would be very important. It is important to understand your city before starting a company so make sure you take a look at your world map (link) before you decide on where you want to set up shop.

 

Here is where you would put the drop down box for the city selection

 

The next screen would be "So what kind of business are we looking to start?" (maybe a blurb on starting companies... like the finance page n stuff? i dunno)

 

Next screen will be a few paragraphs on the type of company you've selected. If they selected starting a gym, you would put:

 

 

So you want to start an elite gym do you? It's true that in order to become an elite fighter, you must train at an elite gym but creating your own elite gym is no easy task. You must find the balance between the right trainers and the right gym fees to make sure that you can provide your gym members the training they need without going broke in the process. Your local Cozad gym offers 2 trainers which are competent in all disciplines but only charge $50 per week. Your challenge will be to create a gym which is better than the cozad, but still affordable to both your gym members and yourself.

 

Things to take into consideration are the skills your trainers will be teaching. A skill like defensive grappling draws on your trainers knowledge of both brazillian jiu jitsu and wrestling, whereas striking defense draws on your trainer's knowledge of Muay Thai and Boxing. So when hiring a trainer, make sure you choose their skills wisely because signing bonuses are considerable. Don't be afraid to look around at what other successful gyms have done, many of them have learned the hard way so you don't have to. For a full description of the game's trainers, click here.

 

One of the problems which many VIP members have encountered when starting a gym, is hiring the best possible trainers, and then realizing that they can't afford them in the long run. Your local Cozad provides training at $50 per week with 2 trainers who are competent in all disciplines. Your challenge is to provide superior training quality to Cozad, but at a price which is affordable to both you and your gym members. Don't be afraid to grow your company over time, expecting to start a company with the best trainers in the game is a quick way to lose your VIP. A few things to keep in mind when understanding how you'll compete with other local gyms is that you can compete on trainer quality, training quality, and price. Trainer quality is simply the level of trainers which the gym offers, training quality is the ratio of trainers to fighters (the lower the ratio, the more effective your trainer is), and price is what you charge for a gym membership. Figure out how you plan on competing with the other local gyms and execute your competitive advantage. If for some reason you don't feel like you have a competitive advantage with this particular company or in this particular city, think things over, because starting a company can be a very risky investment.

 

Here you could put the button: Yes, I want to start an elite gym in 'city selected'

 

Put that right beside the button: No thanks, I want to look things over again

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've only started a gym so that thats the only company I could help with or really understand at this point... but I think information is the key here. I think that people would read through this if it was presented step by step, and I think it hits the points that people need to understand. If everyone who started a company understood what was goin on then I think it would be a non issue.. we just need people to understand. Another idea I had would be changing the amount of money someone could borrow based on the length of their VIP. If someone really wanted to, they could pay the minimum amount for a VIP, start a promotion, create 3 players, give them 16k signing bonuses each and they'd be set. Its way to late (4am.....) to figure out if this is a good idea or not so I'm just tossing it out there.. i'm sure something wrong with it haha

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I haven't read through all that yet but I'm happy to put that in the Wiki somewhere if it all makes sense (once I've read it). :)

 

The thing about text is that the people likely to mess up never read warnings etc, they just plough onwards and that's why they make the mistakes. What I've decided I'm going to do is have financial (in game) limits on how much you can spend on coaches / supplement research / whatever else is really dangerous to survival. So e.g. they can only hire a coach who's wages are e.g. 10% of available funds or something like that... I'll work out a good set of numbers anyway.

 

Also, as for losing VIP, I thought of a decent idea for that too. How about instead of just being reset to basic, I halve the time they have left on VIP, reset their manager balance to 0 and all their fighters' balances to $200 and stop them running companies until they buy VIP again? Something like that? I would say for 6 months or something but it's a lot easier to program it to be next time they buy VIP... if it was 6 months you'd have to run a script every day / week to check when their 6 months would run out and that's a lot of wasted script time.

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I'm not opposed to the second idea... i think i understood it.

 

I know what you mean about the dummies rushing through all the text and just getting to the point where they can start spending their borrowed money, but thats why I tried to limit the length of the text, and made it more narrative than factual. When you make it more of a story or 'briefing' and less of an instruction manual, you'd probably get more people reading it... especially when you had it 'in game' rather than a link to the wiki. I'll admit I skimmed the wiki because i thought between common sense and understanding basic mma training practices I could work my way through it. As a result my first two trainers were specialized in MT/BJJ and Wrestling/boxing... genius eh? I just think that players are more likely to read something brief and narrative like this, than read through the wiki. If you can get them to read this, then they'll more than likely end up reading the wiki... realizing how complex starting a company can be. I honestly think that having the "tycoon advisor" walk you through the starting of a company step by step is more likely to get the job done than putting a link to the wiki were they get the impression that if they really needed to read it, then it'd be in the game

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
I haven't read through all that yet but I'm happy to put that in the Wiki somewhere if it all makes sense (once I've read it). :)

 

The thing about text is that the people likely to mess up never read warnings etc, they just plough onwards and that's why they make the mistakes. What I've decided I'm going to do is have financial (in game) limits on how much you can spend on coaches / supplement research / whatever else is really dangerous to survival. So e.g. they can only hire a coach who's wages are e.g. 10% of available funds or something like that... I'll work out a good set of numbers anyway.

 

Also, as for losing VIP, I thought of a decent idea for that too. How about instead of just being reset to basic, I halve the time they have left on VIP, reset their manager balance to 0 and all their fighters' balances to $200 and stop them running companies until they buy VIP again? Something like that? I would say for 6 months or something but it's a lot easier to program it to be next time they buy VIP... if it was 6 months you'd have to run a script every day / week to check when their 6 months would run out and that's a lot of wasted script time.

 

 

 

I am a huge fan of just halving the VIP and taking their company, because I think almost everyone who bankrupts their company will be people who were trying to do it right, and just made a mistake somewhere that could not be fixed. It's kind-of easy to make a single big mistake in this game and have it really cost you.

 

But it seems like you would also have to take away either their supplements, clothes, or the improvements they've made training in their own gym. Taking their money doesn't deal with those company's abuses- just with org signing bonuses, really.

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A new gym popped up in RIO now with 4 Elite Trainers already!! Only 7 guys there, and most of them are his guys!!!

 

I think the number of gyms per region should be capped based on the number of fighters in that region. Then there should be a waitlist for new VIPs. You get on the waitlist, and when a business goes under or bankrupt the next person in line gets a shot at running the business. Also for every 100 new fighters, a new business can be opened up, so you will go rapidly through the wait list. Should be simple to code, and manages growth. If you have too many businesses open without enough demand, then every business will fail, or 95% will fail, as in real life. We don't want 95% failure rates like real life now do we? Also, fighters should not just automatically end up in Cozad. They should be in limbo until they select a gym. Is there any support for the waitlist idea based on number of fighters in region?

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you want to fix the bankruptcy issue, don't make business make a loan payment before they even have the ability to make money. I had to make a loan payment before I even had my nutrition supplements in stock. How could I not go negative? Making money for a manager isn't easy, My guy is still -$655 & I have 7 more days to magically make that much money & if my manager only gets 10% of my fighters income, that means my fighters need to earn $6,000 in the next week to even take care of $600 of that $655. My business is now doing ok, but I may not get to run it because I can't put money into my manager's account & thus he'll remain negative unless I can work out a large signing bonus for a new fighter to save my VIP status.

 

When you take out a real loan, the first month is deferred & you have an initial grace period to get your weekly money together. I think the game needs to delay the first loan payment by a week.

 

Shouldn't my manager be able to get the amount he loaned the business back? Other wise why even charge the mananger's account, just make the business itself be delinquent and charget an extra fee like $25 bucks. I understand your fear of cheating, but I can't even buy my own product, so how could I possibly cheat?

 

My manager's current bank balance after having earned a little since the early bird loan payment suprise: -$655.69

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