Why is it we turn a blind eye to this?

[PBR]

only way to deal with it is to stop dealing with them, boycott contract offers, fight offers whatever from them -- they all multi's and true to form they all throw excuses like crazy my sisters cousins best friend is a mma fan and i got him to join bla bla bla

[jjsquirrel]

This game has enough to keep track on without having to keep a list of all the multi accounts to compare against manually, don't think that would work out. But sure, I do avoid a few well known ones. Really feels like this is something Mike should take care of.. or appoint someone else and give them the power to do it.

[TJMitchell]

This game has enough to keep track on without having to keep a list of all the multi accounts to compare against manually, don't think that would work out. But sure, I do avoid a few well known ones. Really feels like this is something Mike should take care of.. or appoint someone else and give them the power to do it.

 

 

Ohhhh, I'd fucking love to lol

 

 

[TJMitchell]

Yo Michael Tycoon,

 

I understand if the multi is a VIP, sure, they make that cash. But this prick has 2 (that I know of) that aren't VIP and therefore contribute nothing to you and are only helping himself.

 

 

http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=65601 - VIP

 

http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=8798 - No VIP

 

http://mmatycoon.com/managerprofilemanager.php?MgrID=102367 - No VIP

 

 

Delete this shit man. I mean 1 of them has the same fucking name for god sake. Just look at the last 20 fights of them, almost all fights at CEFC. He is helping no one but himself, not even your pocket.

[TJMitchell]

I guess Boble got some free time now Sydney Fights is closing down:-

 

Last Logins

Boble (6209) VIP Last Login:0

Trashcan356 (127100) VIP Last Login:0

Tesoprivat (127253) VIP Last Login:0

Vikingphil (127263) VIP Last Login:0

Don't worry mate they're all VIP so nothing will be done. Have a nice day!

[junglelord]

I guess Boble got some free time now Sydney Fights is closing down:-

 

Last Logins

Boble (6209) VIP Last Login:0

Trashcan356 (127100) VIP Last Login:0

Tesoprivat (127253) VIP Last Login:0

Vikingphil (127263) VIP Last Login:0

 

Don't worry mate they're all VIP so nothing will be done. Have a nice day!

Totally makes sense, no new manager would sign up and immediately make a org like that

[jjsquirrel]

I was wondering whos multi that was, well at least it is someone who knows how to run an org then.

[junglelord]

On the first event boble's 210k id fighter beat one of the new accounts fighters who is brand new....

[TJMitchell]

I have it on good authority that TJMitchell, Alex, Ovo, Camara, Bjorn, MissMiracle, humors and that one that lost to Alex in QFC are all in fact the same person guys. Can't reveal my sources at the moment but let's say that he's been playing the game for 5 years and has a best rank of 13...no, wait, that's too obvious...hmmm, let's just say that he's quit the game at least 103 times. More info to come I am sure.

 

 

[jjsquirrel]

Oh no! We are all really the same person, we are in online Fight Club.

[TJMitchell]

Would that be GBU Kru #2 then?

 

 

Last Logins

jsdaugh (118208) VIP Last Login:0

ssanders (126482) VIP Last Login:0

Some of these login times are impressive:-

http://i65.tinypic.com/2wocacl.png

http://i64.tinypic.com/2d1mmib.png

http://i68.tinypic.com/3450ftt.png

This one hurt a bit man. I really liked DARE. I was on the card for DARE 1. Still hold the record for most wins in the org.

[HareRumpler]

One thing that's become glaringly obvious now over the past few months I've been here is this though...and I am in no way saying that this should make the multi-account stuff "ok" as it should still very much be addressed by Mike and friggin' just change the rules to allow more businesses per account at a charge already...frig...but...yeah, without the multi's doing what they do...there wouldn't be much of a game anymore. If it weren't for all the multi's runnin' their shit in game and if they were removed, probably close to half the orgs wouldn't even be around anymore nor the clothing companies or the nutrition companies, etc. And frankly, there's already a big shortage on a lot of them...and don't even get me started on gym availability if you're not running a flat out private gym that's most likely (in 75% of the instances) financed by a multi's other businesses. So yeah, while I don't agree with cheating to be able to fund your own private gyms...half the other stuff available to the rest of us wouldn't be around I think. This would be a pretty sparse landscape.

[imcool]

One thing that's become glaringly obvious now over the past few months I've been here is this though...and I am in no way saying that this should make the multi-account stuff "ok" as it should still very much be addressed by Mike and friggin' just change the rules to allow more businesses per account at a charge already...frig...but...yeah, without the multi's doing what they do...there wouldn't be much of a game anymore. If it weren't for all the multi's runnin' their shit in game and if they were removed, probably close to half the orgs wouldn't even be around anymore nor the clothing companies or the nutrition companies, etc. And frankly, there's already a big shortage on a lot of them...and don't even get me started on gym availability if you're not running a flat out private gym that's most likely (in 75% of the instances) financed by a multi's other businesses. So yeah, while I don't agree with cheating to be able to fund your own private gyms...half the other stuff available to the rest of us wouldn't be around I think. This would be a pretty sparse landscape.

Please give us examples of some of these multis. If they're so widespread like you think they are, shouldn't be too hard to find. I happen to disagree with you.

 

I do agree that a person should be given 2 business slots though.

[HareRumpler]

Please give us examples of some of these multis. If they're so widespread like you think they are, shouldn't be too hard to find. I happen to disagree with you.

 

I do agree that a person should be given 2 business slots though.

I assume you've read the thread we're posting in and all of the intermingled relationships among them. So clearly you're just yanking my chain. Or just overly defensive.

[imcool]

I assume you've read the thread we're posting in and all of the intermingled relationships among them. So clearly you're just yanking my chain. Or just overly defensive.

I wasn't being hostile, I was genuinely curious. There are a few dozen confirmed multis, but when you take into account the 100's of people who play this game, I don't know if it's fair to say using multis is widespread.

[HareRumpler]

I wasn't being hostile, I was genuinely curious. There are a few dozen confirmed multis, but when you take into account the 100's of people who play this game, I don't know if it's fair to say using multis is widespread.

Gotcha. Nah, I get what you're saying about the 100's who play...but I was specifically making reference to the businesses being run as well combined with the multi use. If you look at the folks who were all listed earlier in these threads, and then go look at the orgs, clothing and nutrition companies (even forgetting about what's funding the private gyms in some cases), it's clear there are a lack of active businesses relative to the number of fighters (not just managers). Heck, in any list on the street, half the clothing companies are usually out of business or not stocked. Same goes for nutrition. So given the relationships detailed previously, tied to the active businesses that are selling and such, there's a pretty alarming ratio if you were to remove all those run potentially by multi's. I guess that was my point.

 

Edit: And by alarming ratio, I mean...there already seems to be a shortage...so pretty much anything removed from there would be problematic if it's anything beyond 5-10%, which I suspect it would be.

[imcool]

Gotcha. Nah, I get what you're saying about the 100's who play...but I was specifically making reference to the businesses being run as well combined with the multi use. If you look at the folks who were all listed earlier in these threads, and then go look at the orgs, clothing and nutrition companies (even forgetting about what's funding the private gyms in some cases), it's clear there are a lack of active businesses relative to the number of fighters (not just managers). Heck, in any list on the street, half the clothing companies are usually out of business or not stocked. Same goes for nutrition. So given the relationships detailed previously, tied to the active businesses that are selling and such, there's a pretty alarming ratio if you were to remove all those run potentially by multi's. I guess that was my point.

 

Edit: And by alarming ratio, I mean...there already seems to be a shortage...so pretty much anything removed from there would be problematic if it's anything beyond 5-10%, which I suspect it would be.

Fair enough. I personally could care less about multis if they were not against the rules of the game. What actually bothers me is when people cheat to gain some sort of an advantage over others. I think Mike either needs to enforce is own fucking rules, or let VIP managers have a second company slot.

[HareRumpler]

Fair enough. I personally could care less about multis if they were not against the rules of the game. What actually bothers me is when people cheat to gain some sort of an advantage over others. I think Mike either needs to enforce is own fucking rules, or let VIP managers have a second company slot.

This. This I'm in full agreement on. I mean, I don't need the T$. But...would I like to run a clothing company for the fun of it because I like to do graphics? yeah. Wouldn't have anything to do with trying to fund my own private gym. But I'm not willing to cheat to do it...and I would want him to not allow others either, or allow us to just have the second damned company.

[Warwynd]

Personally, I think everyone should be allowed a Gym and a Company. Since Gyms really don't make money they should just not be considered a business. Either that or give gyms a serious makeover so that they can be both profitable (mildly at least) AND provide halfway decent training, rather then the way shit is now. Either the gym makes money and anyone training there may as well do situps at home for all the good the gym will do for them, or they provide good training but are money pits. It's stupid. No one would open a gym in real life if this were the logistics of them and in this game having gyms be the way they are only encourages people to run multi's because it's either you train in the private gyms or you lose. That sucks ass.

[HareRumpler]

Personally, I think everyone should be allowed a Gym and a Company. Since Gyms really don't make money they should just not be considered a business. Either that or give gyms a serious makeover so that they can be both profitable (mildly at least) AND provide halfway decent training, rather then the way shit is now. Either the gym makes money and anyone training there may as well do situps at home for all the good the gym will do for them, or they provide good training but are money pits. It's stupid. No one would open a gym in real life if this were the logistics of them and in this game having gyms be the way they are only encourages people to run multi's because it's either you train in the private gyms or you lose. That sucks ass.

Exactly, below is exactly what I had just discussed with somebody else via email earlier this morning!

 

"I just wish the game didn't have it so that to run an effective gym, with quality coaches and reasonable effectiveness in a coach/fighter ratio in sessions...that it was impossible not to run at a deficit. Everything else in the game seems to be set up in a way that if it's done well and what not...clothing, nutrition, orgs, etc...you can at least come out in the black.

But with gyms, it's quite apparent that unless you a) over-occupy the gym, b ) cut corners on coach quality, c) cut corners on the skills by the coaches that are actually needed for the thing being coached (ex. not having him skilled in BOTH Boxing and MT for Punch Technique training, but only one) and/or overcharge while doing some of those other things, you will run in the red.

And that sucks. That basically necessitates that a) private gyms will be used at a loss, using other businesses to supplement and b ) people WILL utilize multi-alts in order to run the additional businesses. I just don't understand why it's this way."

[Warwynd]

A big part of the problem as I see it in gyms is the coach wages. These assholes want $5K+ per week and that means at least 5 people need to train there to pay for one coach. you can easily see where this is going. 5-1 ratio in training is useless. Outside of physicals or sparring, your fighters will learn precisely dick. Which is just fucking wrong. No wonder noobs give up on this game so easily. It is hopeless for them. Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that all noobs should get elite training that took veteran managers years to gain access to right out of the gate, but the current setup should be totally revamped. The only reason that I have a private gym is because:

1. Two of my friends in this game from back in the day gave me a bunch of money to get started when I came back. ($1,250,000 to be exact)
2. I realized that you can simply buy in-game cash buy selling your VIP time. I did just that and banked a few million dollars. Now I more or less make enough money to stay afloat, but without spending real world money, I would likely have been struggling a lot with that aspect.

The gym hemorrhages cash though to the tune of about $45K per week due to the high cost of coaching staff. The concept of a gym as a business in this game is completely unsustainable due to the logistics of it. I have many ideas about ways to fix this problem. Some might have flaws that I have not foreseen, and others might be even better than I anticipate. Some of my thoughts on gyms are as follows:

1. Coach wages are entirely too high.
2. The drop-off in effectiveness of training between 1-1 and 2-1 is still way too sharp. Above four fighters per coach and I could see an argument for significant drop off in gains, but the drop between 1 and 2 is huge and gets progressively less significant from there until four to one. That is just stupid. Even some of the best fighters in the world still train with TEAMS and do quite well. (Obviously, they are the best fighters in the world). So greatly reducing the amount of diminishing returns from training with more than one on one training will do wonders for not only giving people significantly better training but also making gyms a viable business proposition. Even without reducing the coach wages at all.
3. All VIP Managers should have a "private gym". They should get access to a pool of Pre-made coaches that they can then hire onto their staff. These guys should be made in a way that makes sense for what they train, and not all have to be Double Elites. I'm not one hundred percent in favor of the pre-made coaches idea tbh, but the part where all VIP managers should have access to a private gym with an option to open another business I think is a great idea.
4. With some of these options in place then it would make public gyms viable as a business option and allow even the non-VIP players to have access to affordable and at least decent training options.
5. If the training effectiveness drop-off were to be addressed than the cap on number of gym members would/should be increased or removed altogether. The coach limits should still be in place so there really doesn't have to be a membership cap anyway since the gyms will find a logical balance naturally. No one will make a gym with 5000 members between their 14 coaches. Or more to the point, no one would join that gym. They would seek other less crowded gyms which would likely be more plentiful if the training in them was able to be made both effective (at least somewhat) and affordable.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I think that some of these options are at least looking in the right direction.

[imcool]

A big part of the problem as I see it in gyms is the coach wages. These assholes want $5K+ per week and that means at least 5 people need to train there to pay for one coach. you can easily see where this is going. 5-1 ratio in training is useless. Outside of physicals or sparring, your fighters will learn precisely dick. Which is just fucking wrong. No wonder noobs give up on this game so easily. It is hopeless for them. Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that all noobs should get elite training that took veteran managers years to gain access to right out of the gate, but the current setup should be totally revamped. The only reason that I have a private gym is because:

1. Two of my friends in this game from back in the day gave me a bunch of money to get started when I came back. ($1,250,000 to be exact)
2. I realized that you can simply buy in-game cash buy selling your VIP time. I did just that and banked a few million dollars. Now I more or less make enough money to stay afloat, but without spending real world money, I would likely have been struggling a lot with that aspect.

The gym hemorrhages cash though to the tune of about $45K per week due to the high cost of coaching staff. The concept of a gym as a business in this game is completely unsustainable due to the logistics of it. I have many ideas about ways to fix this problem. Some might have flaws that I have not foreseen, and others might be even better than I anticipate. Some of my thoughts on gyms are as follows:

1. Coach wages are entirely too high.
2. The drop-off in effectiveness of training between 1-1 and 2-1 is still way too sharp. Above four fighters per coach and I could see an argument for significant drop off in gains, but the drop between 1 and 2 is huge and gets progressively less significant from there until four to one. That is just stupid. Even some of the best fighters in the world still train with TEAMS and do quite well. (Obviously, they are the best fighters in the world). So greatly reducing the amount of diminishing returns from training with more than one on one training will do wonders for not only giving people significantly better training but also making gyms a viable business proposition. Even without reducing the coach wages at all.
3. All VIP Managers should have a "private gym". They should get access to a pool of Pre-made coaches that they can then hire onto their staff. These guys should be made in a way that makes sense for what they train, and not all have to be Double Elites. I'm not one hundred percent in favor of the pre-made coaches idea tbh, but the part where all VIP managers should have access to a private gym with an option to open another business I think is a great idea.
4. With some of these options in place then it would make public gyms viable as a business option and allow even the non-VIP players to have access to affordable and at least decent training options.
5. If the training effectiveness drop-off were to be addressed than the cap on number of gym members would/should be increased or removed altogether. The coach limits should still be in place so there really doesn't have to be a membership cap anyway since the gyms will find a logical balance naturally. No one will make a gym with 5000 members between their 14 coaches. Or more to the point, no one would join that gym. They would seek other less crowded gyms which would likely be more plentiful if the training in them was able to be made both effective (at least somewhat) and affordable.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I think that some of these options are at least looking in the right direction.

Well said.

[jjsquirrel]

Another problem with multis is that you can easily use them to farm fake hype. Some people say hype is broken anyway and we don't care about it. But we do, just look at the awards going on now, its a lot about hype. And it's a must to get good FA:s. Hype on your fighters get you better contracts etc. And this is in addition to multiple companies. So people get real ingame benefits by outright cheating, this bothers me regardless what is done about the companies.

[Warwynd]

Another problem with multis is that you can easily use them to farm fake hype. Some people say hype is broken anyway and we don't care about it. But we do, just look at the awards going on now, its a lot about hype. And it's a must to get good FA:s. Hype on your fighters get you better contracts etc. And this is in addition to multiple companies. So people get real ingame benefits by outright cheating, this bothers me regardless what is done about the companies.

 

Agreed. And once the companies/gyms thing is addressed the only people left doing multis will be the cheaters and then it will be much easier to spot them and terminate them.

 

P.S. I don't really care too much about multis as long as they are not interacting with each other to gain unfair advantages over others. I would not mind having another account just so I could see how I do from a fresh start, but I don't because it's against the rules. But would anyone really give a shit if I did and there was no collusion or contact at all between the two accounts? I rather doubt it. In fact as long as nothing shady was going on then I doubt anyone would even look into whether or not I had a multi.

[reggie]

The concept of a gym as a business in this game is completely unsustainable

When teleportation wasn't a thing, it made slightly more sense. If locations aren't relevant anymore, gyms aren't able to be run as proper businesses; perhaps within an alliance, but not independently. Gym owners can't control their product quality without going private and booting anyone they suspect isn't following the rules; unless I'm mistaken (and I'm pretty sure I'm not, since started again without VIP six months ago) non-VIP members can't see class sizes, giving public gym owners trying to keep class sizes down incentive to boot all non-VIP managers' fighters first. At this point, the whole game economy could stand to benefit from a cap increase. $1000/w limit for training? $300/2w limit for supplements? Clothes that cost the same as supplements? Coaching and nutrition caps should be doubled; open up 160-170q research; add a skill point max for physicals or remove the skill point max for secondaries; there are a lot of little things that could be done to change the status quo, but it's probably not happening. I mean, take The Island as a concept for business owners: you get six months competing inside a vacuum on mostly even grounds, then you're thrown into the main game world; unless you're running an org or a clothing company, you're screwed. Even if I ran my Island nut co revenue neutral for the full six months, I'd enter the main game market with one 155-158q product that sold for $300 on The Island and becomes hard to move at $50 no matter where you relocate. There really aren't a lot of options or opportunities for ancillary businesses.