Rambo Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Is there still a weight / speed / energy advantage for lighter fighters? I've seen a lot of shit to indicate that there is. My fighters, for one, have always struggled, and continue to struggle against significantly lighter fighters (10 lb weight difference). It always seems that the lighter fighter has this mysterious advantage - we used to think it was speed, then we sort of settled on it being an energy difference - but it might be a combination. I've seen a few results that spark my interest in this subject, but here's the one I'll use for now. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=741560 Pillow fisted (certainly not known for his KO power) Eddie Clark knocking out a LHW granite chin with ease and controlled the clinch pretty dominantly. Granted, stats, sliders, and hiddens are the hidden extravaganzas in these matchups that we can't exactly pry into from an outside perspective, I just wonder if both these guys were set to 100% SHIG, who wins more often than not? Imo a top LHW manhandles top WW's more often than not. I couldn't imagine anybody in the UFC's top LHW; Jones, Gus, Cormier, AJ, Evans, Bader, OSP, Glover... losing to any WW fighter... and if they did, it'd be some Robbie Lawyer or Johhny Hendricks donkey punch that they land maybe once every five or ten fights.. or some Damien Maia oh shit I just let him put me in a headlock type incident. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=740716 My guy was the middleweight defending his title. I didn't realize he was fighting a featherweight until from the TOTT. Got destroyed easily. Had no problems earlier fighting middleweights. Now had no chance in hell. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=740716 My guy was the middleweight defending his title. I didn't realize he was fighting a featherweight until from the TOTT. Got destroyed easily. Had no problems earlier fighting middleweights. Now had no chance in hell. Yeah, that's... awesome.. guess nothing's changed. lol. didn't need to see much more than that. if I start paying more attention I guess it's back to cutting weight to opponents weight and signing to lighter weight classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Yeah, that's... awesome.. guess nothing's changed. lol. didn't need to see much more than that. if I start paying more attention I guess it's back to cutting weight to opponents weight and signing to lighter weight classes. Or making sure that the divisions you sign to have fighters in the appropriate divisions. I don't mind the one off fight like that (Doolittle vs Leo for example), but when someone automatically signs a guy to a weight division he doesn't belong in, i think it is a sign of weakness. I can get multiple weight champions as long as you go up and down the weight classes after each fight. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I was surprised my the KO myself. Don't get me wrong Clark is tough, I am 1-3 against him but Ansgar is no puss and has beat some good guys. I don't want to take anything away from his manager either, he is a good manager. Maybe I just need to learn my sliders better! But as for your first question seams like the lighter guy does have an edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coton81 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Or making sure that the divisions you sign to have fighters in the appropriate divisions. I don't mind the one off fight like that (Doolittle vs Leo for example), but when someone automatically signs a guy to a weight division he doesn't belong in, i think it is a sign of weakness. I can get multiple weight champions as long as you go up and down the weight classes after each fight. I agree with this I have lhw fighters in the shw class in orgs b4 and when they fought at their more natural weight they lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skap Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Oh Crap.... See someone pulling a fast one on me... Wonder how much I can loose in 13 days I should pay more attention when accepting fights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I had a lightweight dominate my 220lbs LHW red belt on the ground. I simply to refuse to do any inter divisional fights because the engine is broken in this aspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 forgot to mention that in the lower weight classes there does not seem to be much difference(135 145 155) but then again my experience is only with 220k divisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 forgot to mention that in the lower weight classes there does not seem to be much difference(135 145 155) but then again my experience is only with 220k divisions I think it's just harder to identify the difference when a 135 beats 145 or 155. easy to identify when the LHW loses to the LW / WW. when a 135 beats 145 or 155 you're just kinda like ok.. and accept it. I thought something was done though, kinda like when Otso's streak got snapped, it was by a little dude from a W/C or two below. iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shards Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=233167 Weights 148 lbs. 145: 3-5 155: 7-1 He does fare better vs heavier opponents but I don't fight outside his weight class because it's easy, my fighter weights 148lbs so he's also capable of cutting to 135, he just hasn't been signed to an org with a 135 division yet. I also don't like to bug the org owner about switching weight classes all the time since it seems like it's be a bit of a pain in the dick so I'm just riding out this contract at 155 and when I get offered to resign I'll move back down to 145 for a contract and make that a cycle for him. If he does lose a couple more fights at 145 I might consider weight gain to 155 and just keep him in that division as a natural weight fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gutz Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=744119 Clinch is broken for sure. I have suspected it for a long time but now its obvious. For some reason smaller, lighter fighters have advantage in the clinch. This should be fixed asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thanks for pointing this out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Is there still a weight / speed / energy advantage for lighter fighters? I've seen a lot of shit to indicate that there is. My fighters, for one, have always struggled, and continue to struggle against significantly lighter fighters (10 lb weight difference). It always seems that the lighter fighter has this mysterious advantage - we used to think it was speed, then we sort of settled on it being an energy difference - but it might be a combination. I've seen a few results that spark my interest in this subject, but here's the one I'll use for now. http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=741560 Pillow fisted (certainly not known for his KO power) Eddie Clark knocking out a LHW granite chin with ease and controlled the clinch pretty dominantly. Granted, stats, sliders, and hiddens are the hidden extravaganzas in these matchups that we can't exactly pry into from an outside perspective, I just wonder if both these guys were set to 100% SHIG, who wins more often than not? Imo a top LHW manhandles top WW's more often than not. I couldn't imagine anybody in the UFC's top LHW; Jones, Gus, Cormier, AJ, Evans, Bader, OSP, Glover... losing to any WW fighter... and if they did, it'd be some Robbie Lawyer or Johhny Hendricks donkey punch that they land maybe once every five or ten fights.. or some Damien Maia oh shit I just let him put me in a headlock type incident. Thoughts? On the Eddie Clark deal: Clark got the KO because of energy (mostly an energy KO), that's pretty easy to see. The question is why did Clark dominate in the clinch and/or retain more energy? Seeing that joe's fighter is 35 1/3, I assume that his physicals have degraded to a point he can't really keep them at elite. Again that is a total guess on my part. Clarks conditioning: Elite++ (149.10) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 In the last month or so, there has been many anomalies that really can't be explained. Case and point a fight between me and JLP: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=737932 After the fight we talked, I was 10% less agg then JLP and if you notice in the first 10 moves of the fight I (allen) did 9 moves to his 1 with him having a failed counter off my 4th move. Standing I did 25 moves to his 9, granted I probably got up on energy after taking his back but still almost 3 to 1 on moves being 10% less agg? That has to be some of the worst rolls ever to out move 9 to 1 in the 30 seconds of a fight. I mean really 9 moves before JLP does one besides the failed counter? I swear it was like the engine registered him at 80% counter or something and not his real slider setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Ansgar is getting harder to keep his skills up and his physicals have went down some but are still good. Cardio and strength are still elite--, everything else is sensational something. Yes they have went down some, and yours are probably better, but I would not think it is that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 The Clark fight it was quite simple to see that he was mollywhopping him and he got the energy advantage within the first minute before the fight ever got taken into the clinch. Given the amount of body shots etc landed in the first minute if Clark was a LHW fighter, he would have body gassed him no doubt. You also have to take into account Duphus's sliders in the clinch are pretty gnarly and Clark had the primary advantage. This wasn't as much about the weight but more about sliders and energy loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 You could very well be right. I said above that Clark is tough and has a good manager. I don't want it to seam like I am making excuses, I knew it would be tough going in. But that is why I accepted the fight. I like to fight good managers with top guys. I play this game for fun, fighting tough fights is fun and I have never cared about my manager rank. Plus I was wanting to help Louie out. Part of it I am sure is I was set a little more counter and damage than normal, Ansgar has some KO power so I was wanting to get his chin. Looks like it backfired on me! He worked me over and I was never able to land the big shot I hoped for, I lost energy and got KO'ed myself. But that said I still think the smaller fighter does have a bigger edge in energy recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtieBanks Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 You could very well be right. I said above that Clark is tough and has a good manager. I don't want it to seam like I am making excuses, I knew it would be tough going in. But that is why I accepted the fight. I like to fight good managers with top guys. I play this game for fun, fighting tough fights is fun and I have never cared about my manager rank. Plus I was wanting to help Louie out. Part of it I am sure is I was set a little more counter and damage than normal, Ansgar has some KO power so I was wanting to get his chin. Looks like it backfired on me! He worked me over and I was never able to land the big shot I hoped for, I lost energy and got KO'ed myself. But that said I still think the smaller fighter does have a bigger edge in energy recovery. I have my theory on it, but it isn't anything to do with energy recovery. Your theory to aim for the chin is a good one in that situation, it is just Duphus no doubt figured that one out and countered it superbly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I said energy recovery, but I think the smaller fighter has an edge in all physicals. Even if both fighters are all even at elite, the smaller fighter is faster, loses less energy, is more agile, and recovers faster. We don't notice it as much until you get a big gap, like moving up in weight class. I think 2 fighters are 205 are close enough not to matter. But 185 to 205 is a bigger gap and we see it more. I think it is a bigger edge than the power for the bigger fighter. Clark had better physicals going in, plus the difference in weight, plus he figured out my plan. It all adds up to me getting my ass kicked! Not the first time, wont be the last! But that is why I play, I would fight anyone in the game with Ansgar, or any of my guys for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I have felt that way for a while, that is why most of my guys come into a fight right in the middle of their weight class. That way they are good against a smaller or bigger guy. But I have some different ideas about a lot of things. Another is everyone talks about IQ helping ground guys, but I also think it helps counter strike also. I have talked about that with a few people most have disagreed but I really believe it. I never used to pick IQ, I do with most builds now because of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Joe, I didn't take anything posted as you complaining. That is the reason I said "The question is why did Clark dominate in the clinch and/or retain more energy?". As I told you via PM, strange things seem to be happening lately and it seem more luck then anything as of lately. I have no issue's with saying the damage I was using, I was right in the middle at 50%. Part of the reason I say luck on some of this stuff is lately, I can throw 62% damage and sometimes land way more then when I throw 60% acc. There just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of reasoning behind some of it, granted it's usually different fighters and your guessing what they ended up using for sliders against you so it's hard to tell. However one got me a little confused: 2 fights, same 2 fighters first was a draw so we rematched: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=735306: I landed a reasonable amount, still lower then I figured but whatever rematch: http://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=735335: Way less damage then first fight but land almost nothing. I've landed way way more then this at twice the damage with him before. Could be anything but just seemed strange. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I didn't think you would think I was complaining as you said we already talked about it and you know how I feel, Clark is a beast and beat me! I just didn't want someone who don't know me thinking I am just a sore loser. I am just bored at home and trying to keep the discussion going from the original post! I have made more posts in the forum in the last couple weeks then I have in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 Joe did you use predictions? I did but never can remember what I did for sure? I also assume you haven't moved sliders yet either? Mike might run the fight again like 20 times or so and see the average outcome and then he could retry with adding weight to clark or take some from your guy and rerun the same amount of times and see what effect it has on it. That might lay some of it to rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
762x39 Posted May 4, 2015 Report Share Posted May 4, 2015 I have not changed my sliders. I would hate to ask Mike to do that, he has other stuff going on. But it would let everyone know if we are dreaming up the lighter weight edge, or if I just got out matched. Yes I used the prediction sliders, cant remember exactly but thinking I guessed you at 50% damage, I always do that. Thinking around 65% aggressive, no takedowns about 10% clinch, about 60% punches split in 1/2 head and body, with around 10% head kicks, 70% leg, counter strike was around 50% the rest clinch. Again I would not swear to this but it should be close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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