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Overeem?


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#21

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:02 AM

Come on now. Rogers was a tire change at Wal Mart and was just a big guy. I have always felt Overeem was overrated. When he was small he seem sto be decently skilled but lacked "hiddens" or intangibles. BUt as he got bigger his skill went to crap and he just plowed through people with power.


He KOd Arlovski and had good fight with Fedor.
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#22

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:06 AM

It really bothers me to see people throw out the "World Class striker" label because someone fought in K-1. People said the same thing about Kid Yammamoto because he won a fight or two there. Well so did Tom Erickson, Rampage Jackson, Gary Goodrich, and many others. Coming in brawling and landing a KO under the K-1 rules doesnt make you a world class striker. K-1 uses rules and rounds to encourage a Toughman contest like atmosphere. Everyone is forced to come out banging because the short time limits and rounds doesnt give you time to play defense. So the nature of the rules cause everyone to be at high risk of getting knocked out by any big agressive puncher. Like when Cro Cop fights and Rogan calls him a world class striker. He hasnt been even close to world class striker in 10 years. You have to time his left high kick with a calender. You are either world class or your not. Overeem has never been that. He was never consistant under K-1 banner and his claim to fame was catching Hari who later avenged the loss and getting a decision, and getting a injured fighter in the second round and a 40 year old Aerts in the finals.

Bob Sapp did more in K-1 than Overeem did lol.


Its not about have much fights you have there but what have you done there. Everyone knows that K1 HW division is the stronges on with guys like Hari Schilt and others. And have you can compere guy who have won K1 grand prix with guy who is 1-4 K1 and guy who is throwing fights there?
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#23

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:10 AM

Overeem winning the GP the way he did was like Steve Jennum winning UFC 3. Yeah they won technically but still meaningless. Not to mention K-1 is a farce anyway. At one time it was the worlds best strikers IMO. BUt that was 8-10 years ago and they still have the same guys fighting. Even on a good year winning the K-1 GP doesnt mean much. Even at its peak there was MMA fighters Knocking out K-1 guys in K-1. I would say now the striking of MMA fighters is almost Even with K-1 now. The skills of the K-1 guys are not bad. BUt they have no athletes anymore. They cant find new talent and they have the same old people fighting. I think there is a lot of MMA guys who would raise some hell verses todays K-1 guys and do it the way MMA fighters have always done to K-1 guys and do it with pure power and ability. Dos Santos would smash half the K-1 Guys in K-1 rules without throwing a single kick.


The thing with K1 is the same as the boxing. MMA is more whys to win so 1 mistake can cost you a fight thats why a lot of people can loose with 1 stupid mistake but look at k1 and boxing they all have the same guys dominating for years and thats not because the tallent is not there just because these guys are to fucking good at what they do.


thats like Anderson is dominating at 185 so there is no good guys in that weight class but in 205 when Jones where not champion where everyone was beating every it was the most talanted divison but now when Jones is champion and no one cant beat him all these guys doest look so talanted after all.
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#24

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:15 AM

Fighters in K-1 are less skilled than they used to be but bigger. They aren't worse. They're better. Semmy Schilt would've beaten the winners of the K-1 10 years ago as well. He wouldn't have to break a sweat. If Tyrone Spong competed in the 90's he would've been in the finals every single time.
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#25

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:17 AM

Fighters in K-1 are less skilled but bigger. They aren't worse. They're better. Semmy Schilt would've beaten the winners of the K-1 10 years ago as well. With less effort probably.


K1 fighters are less skilled then MMA? why is that? Really guys like Badr Hari is less skilled that UFC HW fighters?
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#26 Rambo

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:20 AM

Carwin would completely pummel the living shit out of Lesnar 9 out of 10 times. Brock is lucky that they didn't stop the fight, but I'm glad they didn't - I think fights should go on a lil longer unless opponent is blatantly finished. Carwin fucked up by not makin Brock who curled into the fetal position stand up, and gassed himself punchin Brock's arms lol.



Overeem will get KO'd by JDS in the 1st or 2nd round, or whenever Overeem decides to engage. Overeem /over roid = overrated. His win over Brock was pathetic. Brock was pathetic in that fight and obviously had no business being in the cage that night. Yeah the injuries didn't help at all, but he was really never that good to begin with. He out muscled Mir once, beat a gassed out Carwin after gettin his ass kicked, beat up on a retired out of shape Heath Hearing, beat up on little LHW 50 year old Couture, he was a hype machine, and a lot of people who watch UFC bought into the hype and thought he was the shit, which he wasn't, and it's not the least bit surprising that he got whooped by Cain and overrated Overeem, and is now retired.



JDS will knock Overeem out. Roy Nelson could KO overeem. Carwin would slap Overeem into unconciousness.
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#27

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:25 AM

JDS will knock Overeem out. Roy Nelson could KO overeem. Carwin would slap Overeem into unconciousness.


its intresting that JDS will only KO overeem but Carwin will slap him in to unconcisioness when we all know that JDS almost put parkinson decease on Carwin.
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#28

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:15 AM

He KOd Arlovski and had good fight with Fedor.



Everyone KO's Arlovski.
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#29

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:24 AM

The thing with K1 is the same as the boxing. MMA is more whys to win so 1 mistake can cost you a fight thats why a lot of people can loose with 1 stupid mistake but look at k1 and boxing they all have the same guys dominating for years and thats not because the tallent is not there just because these guys are to fucking good at what they do.


thats like Anderson is dominating at 185 so there is no good guys in that weight class but in 205 when Jones where not champion where everyone was beating every it was the most talanted divison but now when Jones is champion and no one cant beat him all these guys doest look so talanted after all.



Thats bulls crap. K-1 has the sae guys because their rules alienate all the major styles of kickboxing, It isnt popular but in Japan and a few other countries, and typical of Japanese promotions. They refuse to replace big name has beens with young prospects. Pride was the same way. They never brought in new fighters. The guys they had who were at the top in 2001 were the same guys at the top in 2007. Had nothing to do with them being to good. Mark Coleman sells more seats than Jon Jones in his first fight. They can make anyone appear good. They choose to go for the sure ticket sell.

That also isnt the case for boxing either. They stay at the top for many years because they get to pick their opponents. No one stays at the top that long and the best have their weakness. Anderson Silva is in a shallow division. It has been that was sinc eit was created.
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#30

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:24 AM

The thing with K1 is the same as the boxing. MMA is more whys to win so 1 mistake can cost you a fight thats why a lot of people can loose with 1 stupid mistake but look at k1 and boxing they all have the same guys dominating for years and thats not because the tallent is not there just because these guys are to fucking good at what they do.


thats like Anderson is dominating at 185 so there is no good guys in that weight class but in 205 when Jones where not champion where everyone was beating every it was the most talanted divison but now when Jones is champion and no one cant beat him all these guys doest look so talanted after all.



Thats bulls crap. K-1 has the sae guys because their rules alienate all the major styles of kickboxing, It isnt popular but in Japan and a few other countries, and typical of Japanese promotions. They refuse to replace big name has beens with young prospects. Pride was the same way. They never brought in new fighters. The guys they had who were at the top in 2001 were the same guys at the top in 2007. Had nothing to do with them being to good. Mark Coleman sells more seats than Jon Jones in his first fight. They can make anyone appear good. They choose to go for the sure ticket sell.

That also isnt the case for boxing either. They stay at the top for many years because they get to pick their opponents. No one stays at the top that long and the best have their weakness. Anderson Silva is in a shallow division. It has been that was sinc eit was created.
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#31

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:30 AM

Its not about have much fights you have there but what have you done there. Everyone knows that K1 HW division is the stronges on with guys like Hari Schilt and others. And have you can compere guy who have won K1 grand prix with guy who is 1-4 K1 and guy who is throwing fights there?




Bob Sapp won some legit fights in K-1 and did much better than Overeem did. The corruption that created Bob Sapp has its hands in everything K-1 and effects all the other fighters too. Dont blame Sapp. Blame K-1 you are defending. You claim the product is good but want to discredit Sapp. A lot of fighters made their name and built a lot of hype on beating Sapp. Then someone beat them. So if Sapp was a fraud then the entire k-1 roster is fraudulent. Tom Erickson was maybe was 1-4. But he beat a guy that everyone in K-1 was padding their record with. Giant Norte was a K-1 mainstay. Someone who shouldnt have been KO'ed by a PURE 1 diminsional wrestler.
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#32

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:56 AM

Fighters in K-1 are less skilled than they used to be but bigger. They aren't worse. They're better. Semmy Schilt would've beaten the winners of the K-1 10 years ago as well. He wouldn't have to break a sweat. If Tyrone Spong competed in the 90's he would've been in the finals every single time.



Semmy Schilt is a classic example of how far K-1 has declined. Went went into kickboxing and left because he wasnt that good. Then went back after he couldnt make it past gate keeper in MMA. How can you be so sure he is good? He fights the same guys over and over which is a common theme in K-1. He has fought JLB 4 times, Aerts 4, Remmy 3, Hoost 3. He has over 20 fights with only 7 different guys. He also got smashed on the feet by Gilbert Yvel back in the day.

Its always a good sign of the quality of the talent pool when a guy can walk away from a 12 year MMA career and jump into K-1 in his 30's and beat all the 40 year olds.

How can you sat they are less skilled but bigger? Its the same damn fighters lol. JeBanner, Aerts, Bonjasky, Alexy, etc. They had a K-1 USa even tthe other day and it was of course the same guys as i last watched it 8 years ago. Dewey Cooper, Mighty Mo, and Rich Rufus. In fact the only guy who is having any success who wasnt around when i watched it is Badr Hari. K-1 is a dead product. They shut down in 2011 and have a long history of financial problems and not paying fighters. Which is why noone looks to go into K-1 and why they keep the big names until they turn to dust.
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#33

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 04:02 AM

its intresting that JDS will only KO overeem but Carwin will slap him in to unconcisioness when we all know that JDS almost put parkinson decease on Carwin.



Thats true but just because you match up better head to head doesnt mean you dont match up as well verses someone else. Brock beat Carwin. But Carwin did better verses Mir than Brock did. Santos had the speed to stay on the outside of Carwin. Overeem wouldnt. In theory Carwin could punish him in many different positions and posibley through wrestling. Where as Santos is pretty much only going to try to box. Not saying i agree because im not sold on Carwin. But who does best verses Overeem has nothing to do with who was better head to head. That logic doesnt work in this sport.
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#34 Erik

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:26 AM

Pride was the same way. They never brought in new fighters. The guys they had who were at the top in 2001 were the same guys at the top in 2007.


Complete and utter bullshit, Pride brought in tons of guys in after 2001 who got to fight the top guys in the division -- I'd argue they signed better fighters between 2002-2006 than the UFC did.. some examples

HW: Werdum (2005), Kharitonov (2003), Hunt (2004), Barnett (2004), Fedor (2002), Aleks (2003)
LHW: Shogun (2003), Nakamura (2003), Diet Nog (2002), Sokoudjou (2007), Overeem (2002), Yoshida (2003)

I'll ignore the fact they built 2 more divisions (LW and MW) after 2001, not to mention the countless guys who came in and didn't make it to the top.


Semmy Schilt is a classic example of how far K-1 has declined. Went went into kickboxing and left because he wasnt that good. Then went back after he couldnt make it past gate keeper in MMA. How can you be so sure he is good? He fights the same guys over and over which is a common theme in K-1. He has fought JLB 4 times, Aerts 4, Remmy 3, Hoost 3. He has over 20 fights with only 7 different guys. He also got smashed on the feet by Gilbert Yvel back in the day.


Schilt improved drastically between 1996 and 2004 (and he still lost to Ignashov in 2004). Schilt was always a ridiculously difficult opponent under 3 knockdown rules, simply because he doesn't even need to connect cleanly. Also Yvel was a pretty decent striker in his own right; just really unreliable and prone to acts of extreme stupditiy.
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#35

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:27 AM

Thats true but just because you match up better head to head doesnt mean you dont match up as well verses someone else. Brock beat Carwin. But Carwin did better verses Mir than Brock did. Santos had the speed to stay on the outside of Carwin. Overeem wouldnt. In theory Carwin could punish him in many different positions and posibley through wrestling. Where as Santos is pretty much only going to try to box. Not saying i agree because im not sold on Carwin. But who does best verses Overeem has nothing to do with who was better head to head. That logic doesnt work in this sport.


thats because Mir is a ground fighter but Carwin and JDS is not so they are mached the same against Overeem.
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#36

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:32 AM

Bob Sapp won some legit fights in K-1 and did much better than Overeem did. The corruption that created Bob Sapp has its hands in everything K-1 and effects all the other fighters too. Dont blame Sapp. Blame K-1 you are defending. You claim the product is good but want to discredit Sapp. A lot of fighters made their name and built a lot of hype on beating Sapp. Then someone beat them. So if Sapp was a fraud then the entire k-1 roster is fraudulent. Tom Erickson was maybe was 1-4. But he beat a guy that everyone in K-1 was padding their record with. Giant Norte was a K-1 mainstay. Someone who shouldnt have been KO'ed by a PURE 1 diminsional wrestler.


Bob Sapp only legit win is old Ernesto Hoost and that your Tom guy have won fighter who is 9-14 lol
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#37

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:34 AM

Thats bulls crap. K-1 has the sae guys because their rules alienate all the major styles of kickboxing, It isnt popular but in Japan and a few other countries, and typical of Japanese promotions. They refuse to replace big name has beens with young prospects. Pride was the same way. They never brought in new fighters. The guys they had who were at the top in 2001 were the same guys at the top in 2007. Had nothing to do with them being to good. Mark Coleman sells more seats than Jon Jones in his first fight. They can make anyone appear good. They choose to go for the sure ticket sell.

That also isnt the case for boxing either. They stay at the top for many years because they get to pick their opponents. No one stays at the top that long and the best have their weakness. Anderson Silva is in a shallow division. It has been that was sinc eit was created.


A simple question ! If you put JDS in boxing training with no previouse training expierienc and you put Klichko in MMA training with also no previouse experien and after 10years who will be champion or on better ranked in their game?
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#38

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:43 AM

Semmy Schilt is a classic example of how far K-1 has declined. Went went into kickboxing and left because he wasnt that good. Then went back after he couldnt make it past gate keeper in MMA. How can you be so sure he is good? He fights the same guys over and over which is a common theme in K-1. He has fought JLB 4 times, Aerts 4, Remmy 3, Hoost 3. He has over 20 fights with only 7 different guys. He also got smashed on the feet by Gilbert Yvel back in the day.

Its always a good sign of the quality of the talent pool when a guy can walk away from a 12 year MMA career and jump into K-1 in his 30's and beat all the 40 year olds.


My friend you are very stupid :) Semmy had only kickboxing training and experience and he joined MMA only to make money because like you said K1 was dying. When he returned ar 30 whats the problem there? Its not like he wasnt training for all that time and I kinda dont understand why he was not very good in k1 when his record there is 39-6 and looking at 30year point doest look like he have left he was figting few fights a year every year after he started so thats a bs also.
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#39

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 11:57 AM

thats because Mir is a ground fighter but Carwin and JDS is not so they are mached the same against Overeem.


Great observation, Shane Carwin and JDS fight the exact same way.
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#40

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:01 PM

Semmy Schilt came into MMA from Karate. He never kickboxed before. When he came from MMA to K-1 he was an instant success.

How can you sat they are less skilled but bigger? Its the same damn fighters

I hope you're not serious. Overeem is also still the same guy. Compare the Aerts who won the GP to the guy who was in the finals last. Satake, Hug, Aerts, Maurice Smith, Branko, those guys were close to 200 lbs. Semmy would've butchered them. If the 190 lbs version of Spong would've competed with these guys there's a very good chance that he would've won.

Bonjaski, Schilt, Spong, Ghokan Saki, Ghita, Hari, all those guys are better than the average competitor was in the 90's.

Btw, I just read that Mike Bernardo killed himself in Februari. That's some sad news.
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