Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The thing that people don't seem to get about caps is this... In real life, there are limits to everything you can do. It's about size of shop/warehouse/supply chain/advertising costs/taxes/staff costs/legal costs etc. All these things can be brought in but it would mean spending weeks programming something which would have basically exactly the same effect as a simple cap. People get so anti the idea of caps that they don't realise they're just a simple solution to a complex problem. But there you go... people are almost hard wired into being opposed to the concept of a cap, so we'll just have to spend a load of time programming in more complex solutions. Unfortunately this means less time spent improving e.g. the fight engine, which I personally find frustrating. Even when it's something that operates exactly like the real world (e.g. diminishing returns for orgs), people are still opposed to it, just because of the basic concept meaning a decrease in their income or perhaps just because it's some sort of control and people like to do exactly what they want, whenever they want. Being a business owner isn't about doing exactly whatever you want to do, whenever you feel like it. There's a hell of a lot of boring and stressful stuff involved - many, many of which limit your ability to do stuff. If it took the same amount of time to do the complex solution as just putting in a cap, I'd do the complex solution. The only reason I don't is so that I can move onto improving something else sooner. WRONG Take what you are saying, and tell that to Nike. I've been to their global HQ, and I tell you what, there are millions and millions of square feet of OFFICE space alone. They have a whole complex of warehouses to store just office supplies. There is in no way that they EVER run out of anything. They rose to the top, and have no rival really. there are companies that share a bit of the light, but Nike put the stamp in the world, hands down best athletic company in the world. And the only way they did it was a free market, and Chinese kids Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I can see it being necessary for supp companies but please get rid of the cap for the clothing companies... I'll never sell that much to be affected by it but I really am doing fine as a clothing company right now because I worked to cultivate relationships with managers and fighters who are loyal to 3MA and the men we sponsor are among the games BEST (Barrack Fuckin' Lesnar anyone?) I was doing poor in competing with the sales of some other companies at first but I found that supporting my local orgs and gyms with sponsorship deals, being active in the forum and personable with other managers as well as having quality designs that I advertise as much as I can has made me successful. I have already made 47k in the month and a half I've been in business and only hope to increase those numbers through my custom gear clients. Point is this, I am doing great without capping the big boys and if there are struggling companies who will eventually fall off the highstreet then that's capitalism my friend. Come up with a better business model and try again. I would like to see Hype play a bigger role in my company though. I've worked my way up to #2 on the highstreet of NY but I don't really know what that is good for. Higher hyped companies give higher morale boosts right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintchicken Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 But there you go... people are almost hard wired into being opposed to the concept of a cap, so we'll just have to spend a load of time programming in more complex solutions. Unfortunately this means less time spent improving e.g. the fight engine, which I personally find frustrating. no offense, mike, but if the fight engine is so important (and i think everyone would agree that it is) then why don't you work on that first and then work on things concerning clothing companies and nutrition companies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 no offense, mike, but if the fight engine is so important (and i think everyone would agree that it is) then why don't you work on that first and then work on things concerning clothing companies and nutrition companies? +1 on this Would definitely like to see some new sliders before we see private jets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMATycoon Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 no offense, mike, but if the fight engine is so important (and i think everyone would agree that it is) then why don't you work on that first and then work on things concerning clothing companies and nutrition companies? Because it's equally important to try and keep the economy of the game in check. DIDM - of course Nike face limitations to what they can do. You can overcome a lot of limits but everyone faces limits. Within the confines of this game, Nike would be able to sell millions of clothes without having to store them anywhere/advertise/look after the production chain etc. You get economies of scale in this game but no dis-economies of scale - that's the point regarding clothing companies - there needs to be a dis-economy of scale introduced if there is to be no clothing cap. Manfred - all those suggestions are fine and might get done one day - they all take several days of work though, whereas the cap took maybe 6 hours total, with about 2 hours of that time applying it to clothing as well as nutrition. To implement a new type of clothing means changing the profile pages, the possessions page, the clothing manager and public pages, the database to include a new type of clothing in possessions, products, finances etc. Like I said before, if the complex thing took the same length of time, I'd do the complex thing every time. Still, these aren't dis-economies of scale anyway - that's the particular issue which I wanted to deal with in terms of supplements and clothing. A cap is a crude, virtual dis-economy of scale but we can also do a more complex one, like making you purchase warehouse space. Anyway, I was in a honker of a mood yesterday but I'm in a better mood today so will be getting on with some other stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollins Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Capitalism>Socialism---always has been and always will be. These caps are nothing more than basic crude socialist policies that seem reasonable for some from some parts of the world and absolutely unreasonable for those from another. It's a game so no real harm is done and that is what really matters. Let's just have fun!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Providing all the companies with free, unlimited resources is not capitalism. The game isn't capitalistic at the moment, and these changes really don't make it any more or less capitalistic. But as you say, it all comes down to playing a game and having fun. Let's give the changes some time to see if they add to the fun or take away from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'm not sure what to think of the cap. I've reached the monthly order-limit today and I've earned more than enough cash this month, enough to both help out many newer players and orgs with sponsorships and to keep my own 15 fighters afloat. There are currently not enough useful things to spend all your money on in the game to have me fiercly lobbying for a removal of the cap, however I could see the use for this (or to have a higher limit) if that changes. As for now, I'm doing good either way and don't mind if it helps out smaller clothing businesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I'll predict that the cap won't fix a damn thing. Considering the fact that 1 unit of a supplement carries a fighter for 14 days, a maximum of 2-3 supps is all that will need to be purchased per month by each customer. 2500 units in a month from one company would cover approximately 1250 different fighters...multiply that by "the top 25" and you end up with 62500 units covering 31250 fighters. I'm not sure of the exact number of fighters in the game, but that's a shitload right there. What fucks all of this up IMO is the undercutting and diluting of the market with ridiculously low pricing. Example: NSN charges $300 for the highest rated supp in the game (159+). WGN charges $150 for the second highest rated supp in the game (158). MMA's Best charges $150 for the third place supp (156+). After these 3 companies you have a steep drop off in pricing. Highly rated supps are easily found from $20-$50...one company advertised for as low as $7 for a 150+ supplement ffs! I've seen this happen in real life and it kills the market. You end up with undervalued products all over the place because some cheeky devil figures he'll grab a bunch of business by lowballing everyone else...then the next company is forced to drop their pricing, then the next and the next until the market is flooded and people are going out of business because there are more than enough suppliers to meet the demand. Wait and see...it might not be that drastic, but it'll end up being redundant for sure. Like I said I carry the second highest rated supp in the game. I'm also listed as the 25th ranked company this week . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 we'll just have to see how this will all unravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollins Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I'll predict that the cap won't fix a damn thing. Considering the fact that 1 unit of a supplement carries a fighter for 14 days, a maximum of 2-3 supps is all that will need to be purchased per month by each customer. 2500 units in a month from one company would cover approximately 1250 different fighters...multiply that by "the top 25" and you end up with 62500 units covering 31250 fighters. I'm not sure of the exact number of fighters in the game, but that's a shitload right there. What fucks all of this up IMO is the undercutting and diluting of the market with ridiculously low pricing. Example: NSN charges $300 for the highest rated supp in the game (159+). WGN charges $150 for the second highest rated supp in the game (158). MMA's Best charges $150 for the third place supp (156+). After these 3 companies you have a steep drop off in pricing. Highly rated supps are easily found from $20-$50...one company advertised for as low as $7 for a 150+ supplement ffs! I've seen this happen in real life and it kills the market. You end up with undervalued products all over the place because some cheeky devil figures he'll grab a bunch of business by lowballing everyone else...then the next company is forced to drop their pricing, then the next and the next until the market is flooded and people are going out of business because there are more than enough suppliers to meet the demand. Wait and see...it might not be that drastic, but it'll end up being redundant for sure. Like I said I carry the second highest rated supp in the game. I'm also listed as the 25th ranked company this week . Truth. In time...and it won't be long trust me when I say this and someone quote it for posterity please, I want to be shown wrong. (for goodness sake I hope I'm wrong soooo bad, I DO NOT WANT TO BE RIGHT! ) but soon guys like us will be selling premium products and a inferior price. This will crush the smaller companies with one fell swoop. (and the larger ones that don't follow suit will be collecting change on the side of the road) (except Syndicate Drugs but they don't really care one way or the other or need money they have a million dollar Org so I'm sure they could care less...that just lagniappe for them) I've been all for a way of figuring out a way to keep the small comapanies in the nutrition business open AND growing (some will even tell you that I've bought their products just to throw some money their way...yes, you god damn right...I just said that... and I've done it many times) but I must admit I don't have a lot of faith in this particular method that's in affect. I will say this, I couldnt figure out a better way to save my life and I promise you I've tried and came up wit -0- so I should just stop blowing hot air and let the cards fall where they will. Mike is a smart guy and doing his best and that's what matters...I just don't see this ending the same way he does I suppose. That's what makes the world go round though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyDirk Posted November 5, 2010 Report Share Posted November 5, 2010 Well this thread may be a year old but it was a very interesting read. I was curious about the cap on order limits and during my search came across this thread. I was thinking 2500 is pretty low but I can certainly see why it was brought in. I guess the answer is for me to sell at a higher price perhaps. Anyway as I said it was certainly a very interesting read, quite a few people mentioned that it may make it harder for companies just starting out, I wondered how people felt now. In my opinion it seems very hard these days. I've found it pretty hard to compete in the clothing market and sell anything starting out so my plan was to sell a lot of stuff at a low price, as low as $4 (Cheap plug there) and then hopefully they would then be attracted by some of the slightly better designs at a more expensive price or that when they have cash in the future they'd remember me and help out with donations or buying the more expensive products. I guess it's kind of worked as my sales are better these days but it's still mainly the cheap items which sell and I feel if I raised prices then my sales would soon drop off. Now maybe it's partly that my designs aren't that great or perhaps it's because there isn't enough demand. I've never owned or worked in one but I was thinking that it must be almost even harder for nutrition companies starting out. There are so many decent supp companies out there now of 158+ selling for $99-$150 that it must be incredibly hard to get people to buy a lower end product. Your customer base must largely be from new users starting out but I bet a lot of them don't even realise they need supps in the first place and the ones that do realise the importance of them are probably quickly into a few fights and have the cash to afford the 158+ supps. Even in my relatively short time here (4 months and hell has it flown by) I've noticed a lot of clothing and nutrition companies open for a few weeks only to quickly close down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.