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2016-2017 NBA Discussion


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I'm just thinking GS struggles early on tbh. The Heat were like .500 through their first 40 guys if I remember correctly but still made the finals by the end of it. Now granted Miami had 0 chemistry going into it & GS is only having to fit 1 new person in but chemistry takes awhile & I think early on they'll lose to tough teams like SA but beat bad teams.

 

As far as the Clippers they won 56 games two years ago & 53 games last year when Blake only played 35. I think they bolstered their bench with Speights especially in late game situations & I liked their draft pick of Brice Johnson. Assuming health I think they could flirt with 60 wins

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I say that about Speights btw because he's a career 79% free throw shooter (82.5%) last year. And is a competent enough rim protector & rebounder that they have a great replacement to protect themselves from hack-a-jordan strategy. He also made 24 threes last year on 38% so he can occasionally play as a stretch 4 for them I'd imagine. I wouldn't want to see him just jacking them up but again is competent enough at it you have to respect it

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I think Speights will struggle in the Clippers because unlike GS, the Clippers have a lot less threat, so he will get marked better as for the Clippers staying healthy, it seems to me that it is a chronicle problem, they did add some depth though, but i doubt it will be enough to keep them in 2nd.

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I have been watching quite a few teams the past couple of days and i think that Davis will likely be top scorer this year, i mean his team is so crap he has to get them 40+ every game. He gets double teamed basically every play, they do not even wait for him to dribble, but he can score from range, from 3, driving or posting up. I think Leonard should get MVP if the Spurs do as well as expected.

 

I also think that Giannis from the Bucks will have monster numbers this year, similar to Davis he has to do a lot, only his team is a bit better. The Bucks are a really weird looking team though, i mean it is like they are all long SF or PF's, they only have one proper center, no real shooting guards or play makers, no range shooting either, i have no idea how they assembled this team.

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I think Speights will struggle in the Clippers because unlike GS, the Clippers have a lot less threat, so he will get marked better as for the Clippers staying healthy, it seems to me that it is a chronicle problem, they did add some depth though, but i doubt it will be enough to keep them in 2nd.

 

I think he'll do alright. He's fit in decently well the first 3 games I'd say....Had 15 pts and 2 boards in 15 mins played (4-8 from the floor, 2 of 3 from 3pt) and then had a bad second game with 4 points and 4 boards on 1-8 shooting but was 1-6 from 3 pt in that game. He has no business jacking up 6 three's in a game and that's the kinda shit they need to avoid. Then he had 8 pts and 5 boards in 13 mins played in game 3 but was 0-3 from 3pt in that game so had a poor shooting night. I think he gives them really quality mins though. 27 points and 11 boards in 45 mins ain't shabby. He has to improve on the 7 of 22 shooting for sure but I think that's just getting too comfy jacking up 3's. But the 10-13 from the free-throw line is what will increase his value when teams want to play hack-a-jordan on them in the post-season.

 

 

I liked the trade for my 76ers yesterday. Trading Jerami Grant to OKC for Erson Illysova and a protected 1st round pick

Edited by shortfuse122829
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Suns:

 

Receive - C: Nerleans Noel (4.4 mil/yr), PF: Dario Saric (2.3 mil/yr), LAL 1st round pick (owned by 76'ers), G: Jeryd Bayless (9 mil/yr), F: Andre Iguadola (11.1 mil/yr)

 

 

76'ers:

 

Receive - G: Devin Booker (2.2 mil/yr), F: Jared Dudley (10.5 mil/yr), G: Brandon Knight (12.6 mil/yr), G: Shaun Livingston (5.8 mil/yr)

 

 

Warriors:

 

Receive - C: Tyson Chandler (12.4 mil/yr), C: Jahlil Okafor (4.8 mil/yr), G: Hollis Thompson (1.2 mil/yr), TJ McConnell (800K/yr), OKC 1st round pick (owned by 76'ers)

 

 

 

 

So I know this trade would be highly unlikely too but the 76'ers have to do something to get some guard play so I am just tossing out ideas here. A lot of players involved in this trade and I doubt Golden State is going to be looking to make any moves if they get off to a good start, but I personally think they need rim protection and rebounding to increase their chances at winning the title this year.

 

Suns:

 

The suns would get a younger version of Tyson Chandler, I think Noel will be a defensive player of the year candidate every year. He can protect the rim and handle guards on the perimeter in the pick n roll game. They would get a stretch 4 and a guy who can handle the ball and pass in Dario Saric. A defensive stud at the 3 position who can knock down open 3's in Iggy to replace what they'd lose in spacing from Dudley. And Jeryd Bayless was 4th in the league in points off catch and shoot and I think shot 40+% on 3 pt shots off catch and shoot. So he would be able to take some of the minutes that you'd be losing from Knight and Booker but keep the floor spaced. Suns would still have Warren and Bledsoe as well. They'd also get potentially a top 10 pick from the Lakers this year to go along with their own 1st round pick.

 

 

Warriors:

 

The warriors would get the rim protection that they need in Tyson Chandler and would have a good offensive scoring punch off the bench with Okafor who's another big body that can rebound. They would receive Hollis Thompson and TJ McConnell to replace the guard play that they'd be giving up in Livingston and a future 1st round pick. They were hard to figure out how to fit into this trade because they're obviously not trading any of the big 4 to fill in w/ role players to cover some of their holes. They're also already over the cap so the trade has to fit for them financially too & they don't really have any big contracts that they can dump because their veterans are all on league minimum contracts for vets for the most part. So this deal doesn't exactly work out financially but it's close enough they could figure it out. (I was trying to get them Sergio Rodriguez but couldn't make the $$ work).

 

I'm not sure they'd want to trade Iggy and Livingston but considering their cap situation it's possible they would. They're up against it and both of those guys are in the last year of their contract & they're going to have to pay Steph this off-season too so I feel like somebody is going to get left out if not both guys. Now they could always just pay the luxury tax because they can go over the cap to keep their own guys and I'm sure they'd probably be willing to do that. But Tyson Chandler and Okafor are both signed for 3 more years and that'd give them cap certainty for a few seasons.

 

76'ers:

 

We'd obviously get some roster balance. I think our starting rotation would probably be

 

G: Brandon Knight

G: Gerald Henderson

F: Ben Simmons (once healthy)

F: Erson Illysova

C: Joel Embiid

 

our second unit would be

 

G: Shaun Livingston

G: Devin Booker

F: Robert Covington

F: Jared Dudley

C: Rashuan Holmes

 

 

and we'd still have a top 10 pick this year

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Well i think that trade is much more likely, the only thing is i am not sure GS can afford to lose both Livingston and Iguadola, while at the same time keeping their current bigs (it will mean they have 4 centers). I think they would offload at least one of Varejao / the Georgian guy. Big question is if the Suns would be winning to lose Booker for Noel and a 1st round pick, Iguodola's deal expires end of this year.

 

If you replace one of either Livingston / Iguadola with Pachulia, the GS will agree with that trade. Maybe the Suns will agree with that as well if you add the 2nd round pick or something extra. I have this impression though that their fans will be enraged losing Booker, they see him as a potential all star, in exchange they wont be getting that.

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Well they'd still have Bledsoe & TJ Warren (who looks like their star to me) & they'd probably have two top 10 picks in next years draft (LAL pick & their own). So I think they'd be getting enough to reload quickly tbh.

What an anti-climatic game between OKC & GS last night. I didn't think GS would want to move both Iggy & Livingston either the only reason I used both was to make the $$ make sense. They're 7 mil over the cap so any trade has to be within 2% money wise. Okafor + Chandler is about 16 mil in contracts. So you're probably right they'd try to put Puchalia & others in there to make it work.
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& don't overlook Saric going to Phoenix either. He's already had a 21 pt game & 14 pt game in his first 4 games as a rookie. He's gonna take a year or so to adjust to the NBA but he was considered the best player in Europe & will be a solid player in this league. I think he's averaging 12 & 5 so far.

 

The 1 adjustment he's struggled with is in Europe he'd set a pick & when he pops out he's already at the 3 line. Here he keeps having to look for the line which has thrown him off a bit. He's also rushed a bit but really settled in the last 2 games

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My point is, they will lose Booker, it makes more sense to them giving away Bledsoe, I just think Booker has more long term value and they wont be willing to give it away.

Honestly if they traded away Booker I would be enraged and I'm sure lots of people would as well. Warren is looking like a potential all star as well so I would much rather build around those guys instead of waiting for something in the future that may or may not pay off. Trading Bledsoe or Knight is what's best.

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You are probably right Mentor the reasons I used Knight & Booker in place of Gordon is the money. They may not want to give him up but you always have to part w/ pieces you'd rather not to make fair trades & Phoenix isn't going anywhere right now. By the time they can make a legit run at the west Chandler is washed up so he holds 0 value to them besides helping their chances at competing for an 8th seed.

 

Also I think Noel is very undervalued because he doesn't bring a ton offensively besides running the floor and garbage baskets. But IMO he's going to blossom into one of the best rim protectors in the league for the next 10 years. So I think if the Suns keep either Knight/Bledsoe and TJ Warren they can afford to give up Devin Booker. They will have Bayless to catch and shoot for a few seasons and two top 10 picks they can replenish their guard play. This is what Noel is capable of though in an article from his rookie year....

 

"Since the All-Star Break (so, a period of 20 games), Noel is averaging 10 rebounds, 2.7 steals and 2.9 blocks per game. Those are stats that have never been replicated for a full season -- and stats that obviously Noel will never accumulate over a season. But what Noel is doing over the course of this season in those categories -- 7.7 rebounds, 1.8 steals, and 1.9 blocks -- has never been done before as a rookie. Ever."

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Anyway I realize this trade is highly unlikely & we'll move Noel & Okafor in completely separate deals. I've seen rumors of Noel to Toronto for T. Ross, a player & a pick.

I think my trade makes sense for all involved though. I realize losing Booker would hurt but they'd still have TJ Warren, either Bledsoe or Knight. They'd get Jeryd Bayless as a back up or catch & shoot specialist. A young stretch 4 who will blossom into a really nice player. A 23 yr old C who will grow with the team & be a perrenial defensive player of the year candidate. A top 10 draft pick in addition to wherever they draft with their pick. & most importantly they'd go from 84 million $ payroll (93 mil cap) to a 73 mil payroll leaving the opportunity to add a max contract
So I realize this is a lot of speculation but since it's all hypothetical anyway let me just speculate at what kinda potential team PHX could put together w/ the two draft picks and the max contract. Using the current nba draft projections where they have PHX and LAL picking....
G: Knight or Bledsoe (whichever they would keep)
G: Jeryd Bayless
G: Leandro Barbosa
G: Tyler Ulis
F: TJ Warren
F: Dario Saric
F: Dragan Bender
F: Marquise Chriss
F: Serj Ibaka (max contract added)
C: Nerleans Noel
C: Alex Len
I think that'd be a pretty decent team. You'd have guys who can create offense for themselves in Knight/Bledsoe and TJ Warren. A catch and shoot role player in Bayless. Speed and ability to attack the rim and create offense off the bench in Barbosa and Smith Jr. Some of the best rim protection in the league w/ Ibaka and Noel. Or better yet how about both guys ability to cover guards on the perimeter if they get caught in a switch. Tell me that wouldn't be a valuable asset in the west where you're facing some of the guard combos out there. Ibaka can also stretch the floor a little bit but you'd get a stretch 4 in Saric as well. A high upside player in Giles. Now who knows how the draft would actually go and if you can attract a guy like Ibaka but that's just one idea what they could turn that into
Edited by shortfuse122829
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Are the 76ers that confident in embids health that they'd move both Noel and okafor? Big guys who have broken down tend to break down over and over.

 

I think they have to move them both. RIght now our 6 best players are all PF and C's. Simmons (PF), Okafor ©, Noel ©, Embiid ©, Saric (PF), Rashuan Holmes (PF). Noel is already complaining about all the bigs so he's most likely the first person that gets moved. There is a chance they will try to keep Okafor but I don't think they're going to get any good guards in return for just Noel so I think he's really the only piece they have any chance of getting something in return for tbh.

 

Whether Embiid stays healthy is going to make or break the whole deal either way. He's the clear star on your team and with him and simmons I think you can be a legit contender in a few years. With Simmons and Okafor I think you're a 5th-8th seed team at best.

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I've seen rumors of Noel to Toronto for T. Ross, a player & a pick.

 

 

That is probably something more realistic for Noel. Some starter, around 25-27y old without a huge upside, plus a pick. Really i think that will screw you guys over a bit, but teams know you want to offload, so you could end up with the short end of the stick.

 

Personally, i would not mind if the Lakers could do a deal for him, our backup center is Black, which is not exactly a top notch player. Mosgov is 30y old, so he is not the future either. I would not mind sending over Russel to get Noel or Okafor. I remember there were rumors Russel could be traded for Okafor, then the shit went down with his court case and that rumor faded. It is highly unlikely though because Walton is a manager which favors a small lineup and this will also mean players like Huertas and Calderon will be playing a lot more PG this year. Both are in their 30s and both on 1 year deals.

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Yeah I would jump on a Russell for Noel or Okafor deal too. We definitely need some help in our guard play. We should be 2-1 right now despite the fact we don't have Simmons or Noel and also Okafor and Embiid are on limited minutes but our guards aren't good enough to close the deal. The thing I'd like about getting some combo of Knight or Bledsoe + a Booker type player is I think they would get better shots here. I can't say that I get to see PHX play too much but based on how their team is made up I imagine those guys have to try to create a lot of offense for themselves, where on our team a guy like Knight is going to be the 3rd option. His job...or Russell's job if they'd make a trade for him is going to be to bring the ball up and swing it to Ben Simmons who will be their primary ball handler imo. He'll penetrate and try to score or try to create for somebody else off that penetration or they'll run him & Embiid in a pick and roll. I think they'll mix in the PG in the pick and roll as well don't get me wrong but I just think Embiid is going to be their primary scorer. He's averaging like 17.5 ppg and 6.5 rpb in 22 min a game so far and that's consistent w/ what he did in the pre-season too. I doubt he would keep that pace up over starters minutes but he looks like he should definitely be a 20 & 10 guy (assuming health ofc). So I would say Simmons is your #1 option only because he'll have the ball the majority of the time. Embiid will be your leading scorer....so I think Russell or Knight/Bledsoe...is just going to get clean looks. Especially if we have a stretch 4 on the team where they're not the only deep threat on the floor....

 

That was part of the problem the sixers had last year. Covington is around a 37-38% 3 pt shooter but he's been our only real threat from down town that gets a lot of minutes for the most part. So last year Okafor started drawing double teams in the 2nd game of the year and as long as you made sure you covered Covington most of our other guys haven't been great shooters so we create no space at all. We're not quite that terrible this year but it's not a huge upgrade either. Of course Bayless hasn't been playing either and he's supposed to be our other catch and shoot role player. He's out a month w/ a wrist injury. I don't think he makes any difference w/o a Simmons on the roster though. He had a career year to get these numbers but when we signed him the article I read was how he fits in w/ Simmons and this is why they brought him here. But we don't really have another guy who can create offense for other guys besides Ben w/ the exception of Sergio who runs an amazing pick and roll game.

 

"This newfound style of play peaked for Bayless in 2015-16, where Bayless shot 46.1 percent on catch-and-shoot shots, an incredible number considering almost all of them were from three-point range. Among the 201 players who used at least 100 possessions out of catch-and-shoot opportunities, Bayless ranked 5th in points per possessions, behind guys like Stephen Curry and J.J. Redick."

Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/07/03/jerryd-bayless-fit-ben-simmons/#ScwJZx4iktBLFedd.99

Edited by shortfuse122829
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I would not say Russell is a fantastic outside shooter, especially if you mark him. If left wide open he can/will make the shot, but his shot is very flat, without much ark, have very little elevation on that shot and his release is average at best, so even though his actual shooting is not bad, all those other factors make him at best an average range shooter. Russell does have leadership, at least he tries to show it, but overall his biggest problem is his lack of aggression, his defense is not too great either. His decision making is not bad and he can pick and pop, but for a 6'5 PG, he really does not take advantage of his size at all and is not very athletic. I am not sure i have even seen him dunk.

 

Maybe you guys would be better off with someone like Clarkson, a much better defender, faster, more athletic, a much better shooter, more aggressive, but he is a scorer type. He is also older, i think he is 25y now, even though he is just a 3y player. I always liked that guy a lot, but for some reason they always hyped Russell. I still have not seen enough to justify that hype. I pretty much doubt he will ever be All star caliber. The good news for you guys is that the Lakers do not rate Clarkson at all, i bet they would give him away for any one of those centers and could possibly add something on top.

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I just watched the Lakers beat GS with 20 points and man i am really proud of our guys (I mean the Lakers). We showed a lot of heart to beat Atlanta away from home. The team is young, but they do have a lot of energy and character, i also think Walton is exactly the coach we needed in this particular scenario, so after 3 years of total obscurity, it is at least entertaining to watch us play this year, also who knows, if Ingram can slowly start showing some of his potential, we could even make it to the playoffs (he has got a bit better over the past 3 games).

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Yeah we lost 102-101 to Cavs yesterday. We need Ben Simmons badly. He can deliver an entry pass in late game situations or can get to the rim at will. So far in our losses to CLE, ORL & OKC we should've won but we draw up our last play to get Embiid the ball, can't get it to him, so Gerald Henderson drives & can't even get off a shot in all 3 games we lost by 1 pt

Embiid had 22 pts (7-13, 4-4 from 3pt), 6 reb & 4 blk's in 25 min. That's 2 games in a row with 4 blk's in 25 min for him
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