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Bankruptcy


WhisperingDeath

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I just logged in to have a look and see if there were any errors because there is absolutely no reason for you to have got your manager overdrawn after one week unless there was some sort of programming error... BUT then I saw that you have spent $50,256.00 in one week on product expenses. Dude, WTF? There are pages and pages of info telling you not to spend too much money. It says very clearly that you have to pay the loan back over 52 weeks. You didnt even leave enough money to pay back 1 week of loan.

 

How could you "not go negative"? Don't spend your entire loan in one go and it would have paid the first week's repayment out of the loan itself! You can leave a company with zero income and it wouldn't take any money out of your manager account for about 45 weeks if you didnt spend anything.

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Where exactly are these pages and pages of info telling me not to spend too much money?

 

I only saw 1 page with very limited info ( http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=...ition_companies ) & the part where it says to go ahead and take the whole $50,000 on the page where you actually start your business. The extra $256 comes from not having any money to order the product I spent so much research on, foolishly assuming I'd get at least a small amount to start out with and a week before loan payments begain to take effect.

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On the page where you create the company it says

 

Read the guide for the corresponding company before you commit to making one. If you make any mistakes early on, such as hiring an inappropriate coach at a gym, spending too much on research for a nutrition supplement, or if you make a mess of your first event at a fight org, you may get yourself into real trouble, lose a lot of money and in the worst case scenario, you could even lose your VIP status.

 

You spent your ENTIRE budget on research. It is impossible to spend any more than that, so by definition that MUST be too much otherwise there wouldn't be a warning there.

 

I reaaaally don't want you to lose your VIP but I mean come on, this is just throwing yourself under the bus. I want to bail you out but if I did that then I'd just end up bailing everyone out.

 

I get that you thought there'd be a week to pay back your first loan so I think that is a slightly different situation to everyone else a that isn't mentioned clearly enough that it happens on the same day for everyone, so if you can make some good money in the next 10 days to cover the loan repayments, then I can put that -$600 back into the company and you'll be OK.

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That sounds great! Perhaps I could add some notes to those pages to help others who start a company so they can have as much clarity as possible when starting out.

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I would like something, I screwed myself today royally. one day in and Im hosed. I started a clothing line and a nutritional right away thinking there wasnt a cap, then I was still waiting on stock and relized I cant start a gym and I thought well I dont want this damn nutritional then so I closed it thinking I could pay the balance from my loans on the gym I was starting and the clothing line I had. Nope, now Im 13000 in debt and probably screwed. I paid for a 3 month membersip twice (wasnt showing up here and I talked to another user and he said his went through right away and Im impatient.) so anyway I can just get the debt erased and keep one of my 3 months and chalk it up to a learning experiance.

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I'm not sure how you managed to make more than one company in the first place as it's supposed to be a 1 company limit. Will PM you and sort you out. I was having like a company amnesty anyway to reduce the number of companies so if we get you back down to 1 I can clear the debt from the other 2.

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The way I see it is this:

 

This is a game. Nothing more, nothing less. If someone pays you the $30 to get VIP then they shouldnt be screwed out of their money if they screw up. These people paid money to play a game they could have for free and yet your going to punish them for trying to have a little more fun? There is abolsutly NOTHING at stake here besides a dollar amount next to your fighter and manager.

 

My solution:

 

If you want to start a company, make it so the person starting the company has to submit a written business plan to the authorties of the game. They review it and if it seems like the person is making some sense and has a general idea of what they're doing, grant them the company. If they sound like complete morons, don't grant them the company.

 

According to posts ahead of this, it's quite easy for you to see who's cheating and who's just struggling. Why not sort out the cheaters from the "tryers" and punish the cheaters instead of ruling everyone the same.

 

I paid you money that I didnt have to. I could have sat back and played for free so now if my company goes bankrupt (which it wont, Country Boy MMA represent!!!) you're basically saying "Thanks for upgrading your game when you didn't have to; but since your company failed, we get to take your $30 and put a kabosh to your extra level of fun. Oh, please tell people to buy VIP to support the game!" I wouldn't tell anyone to play this game or at least buy VIP. I'll go tell them to start a Franchise on Madden 2009 where they won't take your money for having a losing season.

 

Also, companies just don't fail based on lack of knowledge from the company's owner. Family problems, sudden lack of time, equipment crashes and all that could play a part in the downfall of a company. All it takes is a week or two to ruin one of these companies. What happens when a company is flurishing but the owner has some family issues and it goes bankrupt? Your going to take his $30 too?

 

The way I see it, you should be happy people buy VIP to support your game. They don't have to but they do. This should be fun not something you have to check up on every hour or so to make sure you got proper merchandise stock. You guys are making it seem like it's utterly real life and real money is involved. It's a game.

 

There has to be another way.

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I think that post is a load of bullcrap to be honest. I have absolutely no desire to take people's money and I've made that very clear. "All is at stake is the dollar amount after the manager's name".... Well that's the entire integrity of the game.

 

If someone had a genuine problem that meant they couldn't deal with a company then I'd just bail them out anyway. I've already closed a load of companies for people who have disappeared.

 

Don't paint me to be after free money. That's the last thing I'm interested in - all I want is for the game to function properly. If you come up with a better solution then great but you haven't come up with any solution at all other than let people do what they want and if they mess up then let them get away with it. Submitting a business plan made me laugh out loud.

 

a. There are going to be hundreds of companies and I don't have time to read hundreds of plans unless you want that to be all I do.

b. Nobody would want to make a plan. They'd probably complain at me more than ever.

c. A "plan" wouldn't stop them doing anything they wanted as soon as they started the company anyway.

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I think that post is a load of bullcrap to be honest. I have absolutely no desire to take people's money and I've made that very clear. "All is at stake is the dollar amount after the manager's name".... Well that's the entire integrity of the game.

 

If someone had a genuine problem that meant they couldn't deal with a company then I'd just bail them out anyway. I've already closed a load of companies for people who have disappeared.

 

Don't paint me to be after free money. That's the last thing I'm interested in - all I want is for the game to function properly. If you come up with a better solution then great but you haven't come up with any solution at all other than let people do what they want and if they mess up then let them get away with it. Submitting a business plan made me laugh out loud.

 

a. There are going to be hundreds of companies and I don't have time to read hundreds of plans unless you want that to be all I do.

b. Nobody would want to make a plan. They'd probably complain at me more than ever.

c. A "plan" wouldn't stop them doing anything they wanted as soon as they started the company anyway.

 

Reading back, you've been awfully criticial about critisicm mixed with solutions but anyways....

 

I'm not saying nor implying that your after free money. What would it matter to you if they paid and kept VIP compared to paying and losing VIP? I'm just saying that it's really not fair if you did decide to take away their game experience.

 

How about imposing a limit on how early you can start a company. Say you can only start a company when your manager is in the top half percentile or something like that.

 

I know you guys are smart people since you created this great game, there has to be a way to "punish" banrupt businesses without taking their money expecially during this economy, $30 may not seem like a lot but that's a tank of gas!

 

If they don't want to make a plan, then they can't open a company that should limit option A.

 

And if you know their plan ahead of time, you can monitor what they're doing and if they don't follow it, shut em down. That's how the real world works.

 

 

 

 

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Reading back, you've been awfully criticial about critisicm mixed with solutions but anyways....

 

I'm not saying nor implying that your after free money. What would it matter to you if they paid and kept VIP compared to paying and losing VIP? I'm just saying that it's really not fair if you did decide to take away their game experience.

 

How about imposing a limit on how early you can start a company. Say you can only start a company when your manager is in the top half percentile or something like that.

 

I know you guys are smart people since you created this great game, there has to be a way to "punish" banrupt businesses without taking their money expecially during this economy, $30 may not seem like a lot but that's a tank of gas!

 

If they don't want to make a plan, then they can't open a company that should limit option A.

 

And if you know their plan ahead of time, you can monitor what they're doing and if they don't follow it, shut em down. That's how the real world works.

 

What gets me defensive and frustrated/angry is when people mis-represent me, which is what you did.

 

You said flat out that you wouldn't recommend someone to play the game or at least buy VIP, based on an issue which is extremely hard to solve and your reasoning was basically because you thought I was ripping people off.

 

Anyway, look, unless you want zero improvements to the game ever, I can't sit and monitor people's companies - that idea is simply ridiculous. Just take a look at ONE company now and see how long it takes you to analyse it and compare it to a business plan. If they were off plan, I'd have to make judgement calls, write them messages, bla bla bla. It would take all day to deal with probably one company in trouble. It's just completely unworkable to have any system which isn't automated. It's not how the real world works either. Not in the slightest. I effectively run a small business in the real world - you submit your taxes and for 95% of people nobody even checks the numbers - you are left entirely to your own devices.

 

Anyway, in terms of alternative solutions, I think more than likely it will be changed to halving people's VIP for bankrupting a company, plus resetting all their fighters and manager's balances to $0. I'm sure some people would prefer to just lose / have to re-purchase their VIP though, so we'll have to see what people prefer.

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yes this is for fun but it is also a simulated game (which means as real as possible) -- well in real world you start up a business and go bankrupt well then you lose everything at least here you still have your free account just no more companies unless you vip again -- thats the way it goes -- way too many orgs, gyms and others signing fighters then no shows or dumping trainers -- has to be a stopping point period.

 

before vip purchase make pop up or force read with the business loans page and what will happen if bankrupt -- personally i think its reasonable -- and im the poorest sob on here, i promise.

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What gets me defensive and frustrated/angry is when people mis-represent me, which is what you did.

 

You said flat out that you wouldn't recommend someone to play the game or at least buy VIP, based on an issue which is extremely hard to solve and your reasoning was basically because you thought I was ripping people off.

 

Anyway, look, unless you want zero improvements to the game ever, I can't sit and monitor people's companies - that idea is simply ridiculous. Just take a look at ONE company now and see how long it takes you to analyse it and compare it to a business plan. If they were off plan, I'd have to make judgement calls, write them messages, bla bla bla. It would take all day to deal with probably one company in trouble. It's just completely unworkable to have any system which isn't automated. It's not how the real world works either. Not in the slightest. I effectively run a small business in the real world - you submit your taxes and for 95% of people nobody even checks the numbers - you are left entirely to your own devices.

 

Anyway, in terms of alternative solutions, I think more than likely it will be changed to halving people's VIP for bankrupting a company, plus resetting all their fighters and manager's balances to $0. I'm sure some people would prefer to just lose / have to re-purchase their VIP though, so we'll have to see what people prefer.

 

I don't think I mis-interperated you at all. As of right now, I will and have been recommending this game ALONG with VIP. What i was meaning to say is if I did lose my VIP account and my money due to banruptcy, I would be hesitent to suggest the VIP again. That's only if I experienced the loss of my VIP account.

 

Since I'm loving the VIP and my business, you better believe I'm telling people about this game and VIP but if I were to lose my $30, I may no be so excited and quick to pass this game on.

 

How about asking for some volunteers to look over the businesses? Have 3 or so for each catagorie (Gym, Nutirtion, Clothing, etc.)

 

But other than that, I know EXACTLY where you're coming from. I didn't mean to sound like a prick but that's how I ALWAYS come off when I don't like something. :knifehead:

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I misunderstood your intial comment about recommending the site / VIP then so apologies about that.

 

I think there needs to be some more help for newer users who set up companies... really there just needs to be a bit of a better / different how to guide for each company - more oriented towards a step by step guide like there is for orgs. Someone wrote one for one company a while ago but I have no idea where it is.... I just let that slide due to time contraints.

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I misunderstood your intial comment about recommending the site / VIP then so apologies about that.

 

I think there needs to be some more help for newer users who set up companies... really there just needs to be a bit of a better / different how to guide for each company - more oriented towards a step by step guide like there is for orgs. Someone wrote one for one company a while ago but I have no idea where it is.... I just let that slide due to time contraints.

 

I agree with that. I mean companies should not be reduced to people who know marketing/merchandising. Just have some one write a guide that will give a basic outline on what they should do with their stuff.

 

i.e. Clothing: You can order 5 shirts @ the cost and set your prices lower so that if you do sell them 5 shirts, you'll still end up in the red. On the other hand, if you charge too much for a product expecting to make big bank, people will go else where.

 

I'm sure someone with a succesful game business to write some tips and what not.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't have VIP yet, so I don't know what any of the pages look like. But from what I gather there is a $50,000 loan that is given to start a company. Then there is either research or salaries to be paid.

 

How about drop down boxes with percentage values of say 10-80% (these numbers can change, I'm just throwing them out there) that would set how much money the organization has in the bank can be used for research or salary for hiring a coach.

 

So you start with $50,000 and want to run a nutrition company. You can research stamina, strength, recovery and weight loss? Now you have a choice. Use 80% of your loan to research one product, or 20% to research all four products. The drop down box values would change to reflect how much of the 80% you have left. so if you select 20% for the first product. the next drop down you select would go from 10-60%. If you select 40% for the next product, then you could select 10-20% for the next one and so on.

 

This would result in automatically having $10,000 of your initial loan left over to purchase your first shipment and cover your ass while you wait for your company to take off and start turning a profit. Once you start turning a profit, perhaps bigger loans could be taken out to carry out more research or you have to wait until your company has made enough to research the next level of product.

 

Something similar could be done for gyms and the coaches with the idea that the interface would not allow the use of the entire loan. This might mean that the initial loan would have to be increased to keep an even playing field when comparing to the companies already created.

 

I don't know what is involved with clothing companies... Only mistake I can see made there, is ordering to many shirts/shorts and no one purchases them and then you go bankrupt... so possibly limit the number of items you can purchase so that it leaves you with a buffer?

 

 

 

For the skimmers that got hit by a wall of text.

 

Implement buffers so that the entire loan can not be used, thus allowing a built in safety net that hopefully gives a new company owner enough means to get themselves out of a potentially sticky situation.

 

Hope this makes sense. It's late and I can't sleep.

 

Oh, and You might want to check out This Gym. Looks to me like he'll be in over his head soon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anything else on this come up Tycoon?

 

 

Just curious because I love running my org but if my next show or two doesn't sell out I may be in trouble. I really don't want to lose the org because I have some great guys in my org and would hate to do that to them

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I misunderstood your intial comment about recommending the site / VIP then so apologies about that.

 

I think there needs to be some more help for newer users who set up companies... really there just needs to be a bit of a better / different how to guide for each company - more oriented towards a step by step guide like there is for orgs. Someone wrote one for one company a while ago but I have no idea where it is.... I just let that slide due to time contraints.

 

One possible idea is an automated warning that has to be read before making any moves with a company that would take you under x dollars left in the company account. Perhaps one warning for going under $5k or $10k, and another if you actually are attempting to dip into your manager's account.

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I don't know about other people, and considering I don't have a vip (yet), there are the vip'ers out there that don't have companies. Perhaps give vip members the option that if they're not running a company to review the business plans of other companies for extended vip.

 

You only get the volunteers that want to review companies, they get a bonus of extra time on vip, people have to know what they're getting into in order to start a company, no extra work for current staff.

 

 

What could also be implemented would be a co signer system. A vip'er that doesn't run a company has to co sign with the person that wants to run a company. No cosigner no company.

 

 

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I think a co signer could work if it's done right!

 

Co signer would have to be a vip member

 

They could help run the company

 

They would be able to provide more money to the org

 

Overall not a bad idea

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I did not read the "entire" thread [3 pages is a lot :)]

 

Instead of losing VIP...

Lose all their businesses AND 6 fighters and pretty much start from scratch?

Or lose all fighters. Then you get rid of the "3 week" gyms but people don't have to spend more real dollars to play.

 

 

But on an offshoot of that, perhaps base the penalty upon how long the company is in business. If you're toast in 3 weeks, big penalty. But if you've actually been trying to run a legit company and you've run it for 3+ months, but simply fail, then you would probably just lose your business with a time delay before you can start a new one.

And then for example sake, someone in the middle of that time frame would lose 1/2 their fighters and their business.

 

 

I am considering starting a business, but I do not have an MBA. What I can offer the business I open is time since I'm always on my computer :) I don't really want to be penalized for failing at trying to run a legit business, but I can't guarantee that I won't make any mistakes that might hurt me too much to recover from.

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I like the penalty slope idea, it punishes those that try to abuse the system but goes easier on the people that are trying to run legit companies.

 

With a balanced out game, that would sound like the best answer too, but while the game is still beta-ish, probably not the best solution just yet.

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