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Fight Engine Discussion


MMATycoon

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My reaction (having skipped over a lot of the middle of this thread, too long to read it all) as a semi-newbie:  I played for maybe about six real life months many years ago when the game was still new enough aging hadn't been implemented partly because the game was just barely reaching the point when some of the fighters were old enough they might start aging.

As a side note, people always resist change and the people who had been here since the real beginning resisted having any aging.  They thought like the MMORPG's like WoW they were here first and training should slow down as fighters aged but their top fighters should be able to last at the top forever.  It was resolved that aging would occur while I was here, but I left before anyone aged.

My account from then was inactive for long enough I'm sure it was deactivated, deleted, whatever.  When I left, it was that I'd come as part of an alliance that broke up, and there were bad feelings, etc..  Also, public gyms have never been great in the game and when the alliance broke up I'd have had to use them-- which I do now, but it's been so long I'm not used to private gyms.

Despite that experience, so much has changed I'm a lot like a newbie, and have had a lot of newbie questions...soon I'll have more than a very few fights and I'll see if what I learned to do with sliders is still effective.  The engine has changed so much that it may well not be.  I also started out on coming back making fighters throughout the age range, and I've learned not to make 19-22 year olds-- you either make an 18 year old to be really good with patience or 23-25 to be able to fight a lot sooner (and most would say not 23-24 year olds, do 18 or 25; I think with mostly 24 year olds plus a few 18 year old prospects among my newer guys the 23-24 year olds will do fine against similar ID'd 25 year olds. the disadvantage small enough, and they'll last a little longer before they start aging; maybe I'll be wrong; but the 19-22 year olds I made:  Some I'd already signed to orgs so I can't sack them, but those will probably mess my record up).

I was reading a lot about ground fighters having been weak, engine changes were being contemplated, and I don't know where the balance is now.  I prefer to make more ground than stand up though I make some of both.  I'm intrigued by Muay Thai clinchers, too, which weren't viable when I used to play but I'd read enough elsewhere to think they may be now.  I also hope ground fighters are as good overall as stand up, that some changes were made  I skipped over enough in the middle that I don't know if they were.

I think a faster pace, with a third training slot per day, would have been a very good idea that obviously was not taken.  The extra training would have meant the game-year would have had to be shortened, so not much more training occurred per game year.  I think that not changing is too bad.  This game was always good despite the slow pace, not because of it. 

I also think it's clear, having seen the top P4P and their "all amazing" primaries, that lowering the total point cap was not done, and I think that's too bad.  I never got to the point playing before where I had fighters great at everything, and I tend to think the game will be less interesting at the top, assuming I stay around longer and actually end up fighting around the top, because of that.

People always fight change, and I guess a lot of it was successfully fought...but if it had been back when I visited here first many of the top fighters would be, if the managers had stayed around, 40some year old fighters with very low ID's because there would have been no aging.

The lower skill cap would make private gyms less of a huge advantage, but even more so, one I saw in this thread-- well, it should be moderated:  The one I saw in this thread was that a training session with 3 fighters should be as good as a 1 on 1 to make private gyms much less of an advantage.  I wouldn't say 3 on 1 should be equal to 1 on 1.  I would however say that 3 on 1 should be 90% as good as 1 on 1, and I don't think it is, so private gyms are only an incremental advantage.  Then when one starts getting over 5 in a session the huge drop-offs in training could occur.

And something like tripling starting money would be very good, so no one is stuck in Cozad gyms.  Players here have taken it into their own hands with "scholarships."  I'm grateful to have gotten one; though then I sold some VIP time for in-game cash, which has allowed me to make a great, money-losing public gym.  It will only be a very good gym if it fills, though then it will only lose a very small amount of money and it'll be sustainable with the windfall I got from finding the best bidders on the site for in-game cash for VIP time 

But for those not willing to sell VIP time for cash and who don't find out about the scholarships (and they couldn't be given out to everyone if every new player asked for one, so many don't know of them or are too shy to ask and if that changed some wouldn't get them), at least triple the starting cash so fighters can afford half-decent public gyms.  Then, so a solid public gym was still good, add in a very slow downward curve of training as class sizes increase, with 3 fighters in a session being 90% as good as 1 on 1, then accelerate the decline after that so a 10 fighter session could still be as awful as it is now.

There'd still be bad gyms.  Many I see don't take into account secondary skills needed to teach some skills, or even worse they have a clinchwork trainer who only knows boxing or something.  But it would make it more possible to have a solid yet slightly profitable public gym.  I had to set a cap below profit level, because above that my public gym would have too large of classes (as in many with 3 or 4 fighters) to be useful.  So even if I fill, I'll still lose some money, though help the game some too and give my fighters a good place to train.

I obviously remembered some very good things about MMAT to return.  I kind of stumbled on it by accident and thought I'd give it another shot, and in some ways I'm still noobish and in other ways some things are more as I remember...but some of the changes discussed in this thread could have improved the game, I think, and unfortunately didn't happen.

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One other comment that occurred to me on reading through my own post:

There should be more "extra points" for extra years of a fighter's starting age.  Right now to have a fighter who will become competitive at all at the highest levels it's necessary to make an 18 year old project (or younger).

It should remain a long term advantage to start younger, or everyone would just make 24-25 year olds, but it should be a small enough advantage it can be overcome, or at least the difference between starting at 18 or 21 should be, maybe a 25 year old should always have to pay for having it easier early by peaking considerably lower.

I now make mostly 24 year olds, some 25 and some 23, with a few 18 year old projects (I do have fighters between those ages, but they were made before enough people explained to me why one either makes a project or an immediate fighter, with no middle ground, and then I stopped).

I go more for the higher ages with just a few projects that I hope to make great because the super-high levels aren't so appealing because everyone will be great at everything, so there's not enough variety, and I'm also not very patient and would rather make a fighter who can fight soon.  I did make a few because I'd like to have a great fighter or two if I hang around for years, which I hope I do. 

But the "dead group" of 19-22 year olds that I'll likely never make another of...well, I'd like it to be less unreasonable to make those.

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Seems weird to me, maybe we could tone down the referee stand ups again or at least change the flavour text that a stand up happens on the back off so it doesnt look like so silly.

Also instant escapes off a takedown could be worked a bit better, they seem very random with the same chance of happening whether the takedown lands in guard, half guars or even side control.

I am yet to see somebody who achieved a takedown, an opponent attempts to escape instantly but fails and the takedowner gets a more dominant position like the back for example, which leads me to maybe suggest a whole new thing which could tie in the escapes.

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On 5/15/2021 at 10:20 PM, Bynum said:

One other comment that occurred to me on reading through my own post:

There should be more "extra points" for extra years of a fighter's starting age.  Right now to have a fighter who will become competitive at all at the highest levels it's necessary to make an 18 year old project (or younger).

It should remain a long term advantage to start younger, or everyone would just make 24-25 year olds, but it should be a small enough advantage it can be overcome, or at least the difference between starting at 18 or 21 should be, maybe a 25 year old should always have to pay for having it easier early by peaking considerably lower.

I now make mostly 24 year olds, some 25 and some 23, with a few 18 year old projects (I do have fighters between those ages, but they were made before enough people explained to me why one either makes a project or an immediate fighter, with no middle ground, and then I stopped).

I go more for the higher ages with just a few projects that I hope to make great because the super-high levels aren't so appealing because everyone will be great at everything, so there's not enough variety, and I'm also not very patient and would rather make a fighter who can fight soon.  I did make a few because I'd like to have a great fighter or two if I hang around for years, which I hope I do. 

But the "dead group" of 19-22 year olds that I'll likely never make another of...well, I'd like it to be less unreasonable to make those.

The dead group of 19-22 year olds is almost like real life. There are always fighters who will never become professionals at any level.

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