Fighter Creation Hiddens

[GreekFighter]

I have a new idea about hiddens at the fighter creation. Make it possible to choose multiple boxes, more than three, but devide the number of the boxes checked to the initial points limit. So for example I have 150p I want in box checked I will gain 150p to this hidden, I want 2 boxes that goes 75-75, 3 50-50-50, 5 30-30-30-30-30, 6 25-25-25-25-25-25 and so on. So each chosen hidden goes equally up.

[GBK16]

Nope .... Just nope

 

Wouldn't benefit the game at all imo and would just be a waste of time and resources

[GreekFighter]

ok i guess u prefer the standard builds of the game when creating a fighter.

If this idea was to be implement it would allow us to make our fighters with a lot more possible ways than just the standard we all use (ko and power-chin standard for boxers).

In addition, is this a simulation game? Then why there's that limitation? I might want to make an all attack fighter with only KO power and self confidence or maybe just an all round mma fighter...

And I don't really see any big difference all this would make to the game at all.

[GBK16]

ok i guess u prefer the standard builds of the game when creating a fighter.

If this idea was to be implement it would allow us to make our fighters with a lot more possible ways than just the standard we all use (ko and power-chin standard for boxers).

In addition, is this a simulation game? Then why there's that limitation? I might want to make an all attack fighter with only KO power and self confidence or maybe just an all round mma fighter...

And I don't really see any big difference all this would make to the game at all.

That's kinda the whole point. If Mike is gonna dedicate time to a change in the game that will literally affect a major part of how people play it, it SHOULD make a big difference. If it doesn't, then what is the point in spending time on it?

 

Engine Changes, Improving KT, Improving Company Ownership - All ideas that would be better focused on at this moment in time.

[GreekFighter]

As I see it now the game is not improving for years. So this is just a suggestion, I didn't say it is important since there are much more important things to come but if it was to be implemented in just think it would be very nice as it makes room for better fighter creation, since we all know that hiddens can be very tricky.

For example I might have 150 at some skill and check the box for boost but it really can't go over 150 so the bonus goes wasted...

[Jarmas]

very angry and negative feedback, thats all you going to get from this lot......you need to understand that some people leave inside this game (me included lol) some are really cool people with positive and constructive vibe, some others think they own the game and dont like neither are receptive to new ideas coming from new users.......

 

Mike dont have time for this Mike dont have time for that......im seek of hearing people saying that ....im sure Mike and MMA TYCOON are making enough $$ to hire some reliable people that could do this kind of stuff.....dont give me that bullshit Mike doesnt have time!...im not here to blow smoke up nobodys arse....unlike GBK

[GreekFighter]

​How dare you question much more experienced players?

I have been playing this game for like 4 years now and the game is constantly evolving, at slow but steady rates. For me the point is the updates to make the game more fun and I really think this is idea would do it, however there are others with other opinions, and yea that's a fine argument mike has no time and I already stated that this is not a great idea after all since it does not include nothing new just a change on the current way things are.

I think that after so many years people are running out ideas and we can all contribute to new things that can make this game better, however if there is something already on the list of more importance then we can wait, but lets hope that there are really changes coming on the way...

[Jarmas]

"How dare you question much more experienced players?"

 

Because my $ has the same value as hes $ ...he pays to play, and i pay to play, like everyone does.....

 

ps:im in and out of the game since 2012 so...i mean...hummm

[JakeF]

The random hiddens help Mike earn money, this is why they will always stay random.

[JakeF]

The random hiddens help Mike earn money, this is why they will always stay random.

[KalleDerLude]

The random hiddens help Mike earn money, this is why they will always stay random.

 

We are all gambling!

 

 

On a more serious note: Distributing hiddens with that degree of control would just pronounce the lopsided nature of the game even further. Because most people speculate on granite chins and heavy hands. Enabling them to go 150 for one, which would be a guarantee (!) to get the sturdiest chin or most severe knockout artist possible (which should be something special, not something that you or me just get on demand). And I'd wager that going 75 for both would be what most people would end up doing. It would just emphasize the fact, that this game loves strikers.

 

Instead of overhauling the process of distribution and randomization, I would re-adress the balancing of the various hiddens. Also some hiddens could be added. Like Charisma, natural tendencies towards some physicals (learning them better) etc.

But most importantly it needs to be rebalanced, so that builds of various kinds become generally more competitive. Because as it is right now, concrete headed maulers rule this world. If Demian Maia would live in this game, he would be a sparbot and a journeyman outside of TWGC. Sad but true.

[Rambo]

 

We are all gambling!

 

 

On a more serious note: Distributing hiddens with that degree of control would just pronounce the lopsided nature of the game even further. Because most people speculate on granite chins and heavy hands. Enabling them to go 150 for one, which would be a guarantee (!) to get the sturdiest chin or most severe knockout artist possible (which should be something special, not something that you or me just get on demand). And I'd wager that going 75 for both would be what most people would end up doing. It would just emphasize the fact, that this game loves strikers.

 

Instead of overhauling the process of distribution and randomization, I would re-adress the balancing of the various hiddens. Also some hiddens could be added. Like Charisma, natural tendencies towards some physicals (learning them better) etc.

But most importantly it needs to be rebalanced, so that builds of various kinds become generally more competitive. Because as it is right now, concrete headed maulers rule this world. If Demian Maia would live in this game, he would be a sparbot and a journeyman outside of TWGC. Sad but true.

 

Charisma = Confidence

 

in a way.

 

 

Personally I think the hiddens are balanced enough. I think the big two (KO Power + Granite chin) get over-emphasized on character creation and there's plenty of successful fighters that pop other things and the majority of fighters who pop KO power or granite chin turn out to be scrubs with no heart or confidence or a manager who turns them into a punching bag with silly sliders.

 

I would like to see the TOTT hierarchy arranged to where the highest hidden pops up. If your fighter rolled a 150 on intelligence and a 140 on chin, I want to see Intelligent pop up and not see chin override it. This would make things a lot more interesting.

 

 

 

If we want to see builds diversify, we need to add another Boxing skill to the secondaries. Something pure grappler builds can 100% neglect with very little consequences. Footwork is the only thing I can think of.

[KalleDerLude]

 

I think the big two (KO Power + Granite chin) get over-emphasized on character creation and there's plenty of successful fighters that pop other things and the majority of fighters who pop KO power or granite chin turn out to be scrubs with no heart or confidence or a manager who turns them into a punching bag with silly sliders.

 

Yet they are absoloutely over-represented at the top. They are over-emphasized with a purpose. Because it is the smart thing to do.

 

 

And even though I think, that I see where you are coming from with an other secondary skill for strikers (not that I would be against that) ...... wouldn't that just slow them down? What good would that do if they would ultimately STILL remain the most potent builds. The problem at the top of the rankings is not that the submission artists are older on average. It is that there hardly are any! Seriously, for any grappler (let alone submission artist, who wins most fights by submission) you find like seven to ten pure strikers, often with absurd KO ratios.

[GreekFighter]

Then we all end up to my idea as being the best solution to all these problems. I really believe it would be a terrible choise to focus only 2 hiddens like chin and KO. Imagine if u lets say have rolled 120 and 130 to these and adding that 5 boost whould let a lot of points go wasted and the fighter would propably be trash at the others hiddins so he would be terrible as a fighter (no heart+no confidence=RIP). For example once I created a fighter and I didn't boost chin but when I saw his first fight he said he had a granite chin. So I would have lost so much points if I had lets say spend all my 150p to chin that I already had max.

My whole point is that this would make the game more balanced and it would benefit largely the rest rather than the striker builds, as well as would make room for finally more well-round MMA fighters.

You can choose for example intelligence plus confidence 75-75 which suit much better for a submissioner, while limiting the other hiddens could make your fighter have more weaknesses.

All in all, still most part of the hiddens would be the randomness and the luck so I think it would bring great variety to the fighters.

[KalleDerLude]

Then we all end up to my idea as being the best solution to all these problems. I really believe it would be a terrible choise to focus only 2 hiddens like chin and KO. Imagine if u lets say have rolled 120 and 130 to these and adding that 5 boost whould let a lot of points go wasted and the fighter would propably be trash at the others hiddins so he would be terrible as a fighter (no heart+no confidence=RIP). For example once I created a fighter and I didn't boost chin but when I saw his first fight he said he had a granite chin. So I would have lost so much points if I had lets say spend all my 150p to chin that I already had max.

My whole point is that this would make the game more balanced and it would benefit largely the rest rather than the striker builds, as well as would make room for finally more well-round MMA fighters.

You can choose for example intelligence plus confidence 75-75 which suit much better for a submissioner, while limiting the other hiddens could make your fighter have more weaknesses.

All in all, still most part of the hiddens would be the randomness and the luck so I think it would bring great variety to the fighters.

 

How so? Because getting some desired qualities for grapplers would be easier? By the same token this would also be true for the strikers. Back to square one we are. And the risk that you could be shit-out-of-luck and draw absoloute crap with all the hiddens, which you neglected to increase in favor of whatever you went for, would be every bit as true for grapplers as it would be for strikers.

 

This game doesn't have the problem that building, what theoretically (!) would be a great grappler, is impossible. It is perfectly possible. And carefully managed, he might do fairly well indeed. But there is a glass ceiling to what he will most likely stand to achieve: the engine! In whatever way it leans blatantly towards the strikers. That is the reason why so many opt for granite chins and big punchers to begin with. Because it caters to the fighting style, that works better than any other as far as the fight engine is concerned.

[GreekFighter]

I say it would balance it coz the most import value for a striker is KO and that's what all of us do when we create a striker or a boxer.

However a submissionist doesn't have a value that would directly make him better at submission, so adding for example chin25-confidence25-intellignece25-heart25-fast learner25 could or anything else could make him eventually a better fighter because the striker would ignore most of the other values other than chin and KO, while those skills are negletable at the ground game. And in the end the of course it is much easier to create a striker however don't forget that this game isn't striker vs ground! it can be a striker vs striker and ground vs ground. So the fighter creation plays a huge role since we all try to max the same skills more or less however there is little attention over the hiddens that most choose the same as well. You can either choose a fighter with huge advantages but with some weaknesses as well or just make a balanced fighter with very little weaknesses, while in the same way this can be part of a larger strategy which requires more thinking. So this could make way for more unique fighters rather than the standard fighter most of us try to get, and not insta delete when you just haven't hit the KO or Chin hidden...

[Rambo]

 

Yet they are absoloutely over-represented at the top. They are over-emphasized with a purpose. Because it is the smart thing to do.

 

 

And even though I think, that I see where you are coming from with an other secondary skill for strikers (not that I would be against that) ...... wouldn't that just slow them down? What good would that do if they would ultimately STILL remain the most potent builds. The problem at the top of the rankings is not that the submission artists are older on average. It is that there hardly are any! Seriously, for any grappler (let alone submission artist, who wins most fights by submission) you find like seven to ten pure strikers, often with absurd KO ratios.

 

You add footwork and for elite punch tech (and maybe kicks too) to work at it's current level of effectiveness in the engine, you require elite footwork. Grapplers don't have to invest a single point in footwork since it's purely for offensive standup. They won't be nearly as effective at punching or kicking without it, but it's not their bread and butter. All elite strikers would need elite footwork.

 

imo that's how I see it workin anyway. it'd also help diversify skill sets by adding a skill that chips away at total skill points.

 

 

How so? Because getting some desired qualities for grapplers would be easier? By the same token this would also be true for the strikers. Back to square one we are. And the risk that you could be shit-out-of-luck and draw absoloute crap with all the hiddens, which you neglected to increase in favor of whatever you went for, would be every bit as true for grapplers as it would be for strikers.

 

This game doesn't have the problem that building, what theoretically (!) would be a great grappler, is impossible. It is perfectly possible. And carefully managed, he might do fairly well indeed. But there is a glass ceiling to what he will most likely stand to achieve: the engine! In whatever way it leans blatantly towards the strikers. That is the reason why so many opt for granite chins and big punchers to begin with. Because it caters to the fighting style, that works better than any other as far as the fight engine is concerned.

 

Escapes and ref stand ups simultaneously complicate the ground engine. I recently had a fighter stood up (ref stand up) from side control... I've seen too many escapes from mount too.

 

 

It takes too many skills to build ground fighters in comparison to strikers

 

i.e.

 

ground fighter needs 4-5 skills:

 

takedown off.

sub off / GNP / or both

def. grappling

transitions

 

striker needs 4 skills (and one of them trains at an accelerated rate so makes much quicker to build and max out):

 

td def

def grappling

escapes

transitions

 

 

when you can have elite escapes and stand up when being mounted, transitions aren't nearly as important as escapes for pure sprawl & brawler.

 

 

hell, maybe just slowing down escapes training speed and work on ref stand ups, might help diversify.

 

i don't think adding skill is 100% necessary, but could be effective/realistic solution. 100% boxing coach only covers 1 skill. Punch tech.

 

Boxing: Punch Tech

 

Muay Thai: kicks, knees, and elbows.

 

Boxing + Muay Thai: Striking Defense

 

 

Wrestling + Muay Thai + Boxing: Clinchwork

 

 

Wrestling: td def and TD off.

 

BJJ: sub offense.

 

Wrestling/BJJ: GNP, Def Grappling, Escapes, Transitions

[GreekFighter]

Well obviously the stand up game is easier to get elite than the ground game. And that's how it should be as in real life that's how it is, just compare boxing to wrestling and Thai to bbj and you see that. In addition, it is a harder to fight at the ground since it really requires more skills and more tactics. I really think that my idea will balance some aspect of the game because it will allow for ground fighters to pick more hiddens that are good against the stand up fighters, which is now not possible, while the stand up fighters don't have that possibility since the most effective hiddens are the KO firstly and then heart-chin-confidence which can't be all of them that high enough to smash the stand up fighters.

 

Well footwork is another story and that would be harder to implement from what I proposed. But would it really make any difference? Because as I already mentioned strikers are more effective with good hiddens than the ground fighters, so letting them pick more hiddens to actually reinforce their weakness against the strikers is good. If for example a striker picks the standard KO+75 and chin+75 while maybe having not very high heart/confidence/intellignece and the ground fighter gets intelligence37,5-heart37,5-chin37,5-confidence37, which would make most of the stats be at least near average or above would lead him having less weaknesses while if the striker picks more than 2-3 is against his first primary the KO power which is the highest priority of a striker. So with this update I am sure it would benefit the ground fighters too

[KalleDerLude]

I say it would balance it coz the most import value for a striker is KO

 

I would say it is chin. Not just for strikers but for anybody. A suspect jaw line is way too likely to throw a monkey wrench into the most careful of plans and builds time and time again. Especially as you approach the top. It will only be a matter of time when it will be exposed, not if

.

 

 

You add footwork and for elite punch tech (and maybe kicks too) to work at it's current level of effectiveness in the engine, you require elite footwork. Grapplers don't have to invest a single point in footwork since it's purely for offensive standup. They won't be nearly as effective at punching or kicking without it, but it's not their bread and butter. All elite strikers would need elite footwork.

 

imo that's how I see it workin anyway. it'd also help diversify skill sets by adding a skill that chips away at total skill points.

 

 

Escapes and ref stand ups simultaneously complicate the ground engine. I recently had a fighter stood up (ref stand up) from side control... I've seen too many escapes from mount too.

 

 

That is what I mean. Any meaningful change has to happen within the engine to have some effect. And I totaly agree that it is far too easy to get close to max skills. It should take a super rare breed (!) to even hope for that. And stuff like escapes from mount and getting stood up from side control is something that just shouldn't happen.

 

 

strikers are more effective with good hiddens than the ground fighters, so letting them pick more hiddens to actually reinforce their weakness against the strikers ....

 

That would be a zero-sum calculation. Because the strikers themselves would have the very same liberty. They would go for what they need as well. Only with other priorities than the grapplers. But they could diversify or specialize as much as they see fit as well. So what would change? Where the grappler goes for the three or four hiddens that may be useful, the striker goes for the two that definitely ARE useful. And then some if he feels like it. Like 75 point chin 37,5 ko, 37,5 heart or learning speed. Countering more diversified grappler builds would be easy. I think the strikers would benefit even more from such a change. Because, as you said yourself, it is glaringly obvious what they benefit from the most. Making it even easier for them to buff these very skills would just emphasize the current problem.

 

To hope that strikers would generally fall victim more often to shit stats by way of overly concentrating on what they need ...... how would that be any different from what we have right now? Right now going for chin, KO power and fast learner/heart is the way to go. That wouldn't really change at all. The only actual change for the strikers would be that there would be less volatility to their builds. Because instead of having 90 points to go for what the would go for anyway, they now have 150. Basically ensuring that they will be at least average in all things they need to be good in. They would have even more of a chance to hit gold than they have now.

[Rambo]

Hiddens should remain the way they are. Pick 3, get a +30 on each one you select.

 

If it aint broke, don't fix it.