Guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 This thread is brought you by International Fighting Clan Posting some parts of a thread I made for my alliance. Hope I can help you guys. Most of this thread is my knowledge from fighting at the mid tier, so there could be some wrong stuff in here. Did not fight at the major leagues yet. º INTRODUCTION First of all, the fight starts standing. No use being elite BJJ with sensational submission skills if you just cant bring your opponent down. Now, there are 2 ways you can achieve success and put your opponent with his back on the mat: Boxing or Wrestling. Observation Box: I did not list Muay Thai as an option because it harder to set the slides, especially for noobs. But, obviously, it works just like boxing. Boxing - pretty obvious, you punch his chin, down he goes. Pro: Better at score KOs / Better striking Defense / Better clinch offense. Cons: You wont defend take downs very well, got to be careful with LnPers and "TD festival" wrestlers/ If you face a better striker, you are pretty much screwed. Observation Box: TD festival = wrestler opponent takes you down just to get back on his feet and instantly try to take you down again, scoring this way an UD Wrestling: Slam him down! Pros: You can still get SLAM KOs / You decide if the fight will be standing or on the ground / Better clinch control / Better advance positions / Better Defensive Grappling Cons: Sprawl n Brawlers can and will be a pain in the ass / Poor stand up / Worse Striking Defense This being said, I feel forced to say that if you made a JITS guy, you've been fooled. In my understanding, BJJ as main skill is NOT the best build for a ground gamer. You can still start with a 18 y.o. wonderful jits fighter, but will have to be a wrestler with good jits or a Boxer/Thai guy with good jits. How would a fighter like this jiu jitsu guy fight against someone like this sprawl and brawl stallion? Now check this wrestler with almost purple belt. His BJJ can probably stop at superb with remarkable-wonderful submissions, because intelligence, advancing positiongs [ESSENTIAL]and mixing up with GnP [picking shots] would cover it up for a submission guy. Ok, now you know what your options are and what you should or should not do. "Oh my god, Barney" says you, "what do I do?". Do what you like. You enjoy striking, but is tired of being scared of take downs or want to put some jits on your sprawl and brawler? Take the first option. You like to be on the ground? Than its Jake Shields for you. º BUILD Ok, you chose to follow the path of grappling mastery. What now, Barney? Now you build your fighter. The first question is: "What do YOU need?". You need a fighter to start fighting ASAP? Fighting as soon as you can? Stay 2 in game years training and master sub everybody else? The first thing for a successful manager is to know what you want and what you can do with your current tools. People says wrestling is harder to pop than jitsu, but I disagree. Take downs and Take down Defense private training is cheaper at "Rent a coach Gyms" [single Elite]. Dude trained defensive grappling to superb+ and his BJJ went to Mediocre+. Clones Jr trained take down defense to proficient and his wrestling is already at competent. Both have almost the same learning speed. From my experience, wrestling is easier to pop. Boxing also is faster to pop than BJJ. Now that we made this point clear, I can answer the question. If you want money ASAP, you should do a 25 y.o. fighter. He wont have much time to train primaries and skills and his learning speed would not be proper to do so, so popping should not be our main concern. So give him wonderful Wrestling and respectful BJJ. For secondaries, wonderful take downs, wonderful submission, wonderful striking defense, wonderful defensive grappling and mediocre PUNCHES. Why not GnP? Having punch skills makes you defend punches better. If you are not lucky enough to get granite chin, and with useless boxing, any inch of striking defense you can get is valuable. On the other hand, you can use advance position and intelligence to replace GnP power, like my black belt on this fight. As for the hiddens, intelligence ["Knows how to adapt his game plan"] and granite chin. The third one depends. You could chose popularity, to get even more money, heart or confident. After you raise his physicals, put him to spar his BJJ and train GnP coach on the free sessions. Observation Box: Opponents you should avoid = Clinchers and sprawl and Brawl projects. Mismatches overall. Observation Box: You could put superb on defensive grappling and respectable on punching as well, if you manage to set your defensive slides correctly If you already got yourself some money, you can now start making projects. I consider the existence of 2 kinds of projects: "Rush" projects: it is a project, but you want to fight him as soon as possible, so with 19 to 20 years he will be already fighting. Long term projects: he will put his sorry ass into gym and never get out. Expect start fighting with 22-23 It is not my intention to teach you HOW to make projects. There are just so many ways, it is impossible to keep a track here. This is just an AWESOME thread about making projects. Enjoy. At the end, to have a ground game, you should have Exceptional wrestling, superb or higher Jits, wonderful take downs, at least superb take down defense, superb or higher GnP, wonderful d Grap and wonderful or higher subs. Observation box: between exceptional/sensational subs and superb GnP or wonderful GnP and Subs, I'd stick with double wonderful. One thing I did only note recently is that the skill gap between wonderful and sensational is much smaller than woeful to mediocre. The turning point should be around strong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexiZaitev Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 good job mi boyo lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 This deserves a freaking pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 º SLIDES Finally. "Barney, but how is this lazy turtle going to fight? And how to keep the fight on the ground? How?". I tell you how. Don't sub spam. If your guy knows what he is doing, it would be effective. This useless BJJ useless defensive grappling holds 12 attempts from a brown belt. What you have to do is ADVANCE TO A BETTER POSITION and TAKE YOUR TIME. Mix it with some GnP strikes to soft him up for a sub, works really smooth. But it IS possible, even without the GnP. And you CAN make big ratings with it, just like I the black belt example I used when explaining 25y.o. builds. I'll explain the basic strategies on the ground, it is up to you to mix them up and take that win. Lay'n'Pray - all about taking the guy down and keeping him there, controlling from the top. If you are on top, you are winning. This is best used when you are outmatched on the striking and don't want to exchange, but you cant threat him with your submissions, so you just want to keep it on the ground. Aggressively GnP- Take him down and pound his face. Not too much to explain about it. Should be used when you have a BIG ground edge or a sick KO power.Observation box: Strength is essential at GnP'ing Aggressive sub - crank that arm! Use it when outgrapple your opponent. Picking shots/subs - Almost like LnP, but you will put it a Lil bit of offense, making it spicy. This one is hard because you have to find balance between too much aggression and being too passive. If you miss the slides and you are losing the stand up, if you don't get to finish the fight you will most certainly lose by UD. Finally, you will be mixing it up, so you will be picking shots to soft him up and pick your sub. You will aggressively GnP to pick sub, and so on. Hope you guys enjoy reading this. I made it with a lot of love. Good training and godspeed! Barney wishes you good luck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I can't pretend to really get the ground game, but as far as I've been able to observe, it's far more of a gentle art than the rest of the game. And how you might be able to take a gentle art and turn it into a weapon, the more a master of slider-fu you really are. barney's sharing info I'm sure to bookmark, in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 I looked over your intro in chat a while back and it still looks good. It's structured well, easily understandable and it doesn't get too specific which I like. Bravo, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2011 Report Share Posted April 14, 2011 Thanks Mannetosen The slider part is a lil bit vague because I used mostly pictures to express myself on the original thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 good job , excellent tutorial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spix70r Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 hell of a job, deserves a pin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 My last ground battle PIcking shot is THE way to get a win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrookins Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 amazing guide +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 5, 2011 Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Now this is some piece of ancient history. WOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HacKey Posted May 1, 2020 Report Share Posted May 1, 2020 Now this is some piece of ancient history. WOW. Great share of thread with nice stuff inside without bacon from Veteran Noobs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortstacker Posted September 11, 2020 Report Share Posted September 11, 2020 Is this still accurate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fired90 Posted September 11, 2020 Report Share Posted September 11, 2020 What that mean 'Basic strike' ? Want to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortstacker Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 Question: For either the rush project or the long and drawn out version. When should I be testing the fighters to check for hiddens? Also, what is generally accepted as an immediate sack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barney Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Is this still accurate? My ground sliders from that time didnt change much. I think its fair to say my grappling camp is doing well, holding two belts. So at the moment Team Lobster holds 2 different weight cat belts simultaneously. Open Weight (ID restricted) and 205lb (open ID). After topping 2 fighter ID range in a row and holding 2 division belts at the same time, I think its fair to say El Zoido is the best grappling fighting camp around. Thank you John Dawg for creating this awesome org and Buff for both keeping the dream real and our last clash at OW, great match! http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/0/15784511883965.png http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/belt/20200102014421CWC%20belt.jpg Zé Jiurgite "The Black Belt Hunter" Former OW (350k ID) champ and current 205lb Champ http://www.mmatycoon.com/gallery/0/15879563015276.png http://www.mmatycoon.com/images/belt/20200102014421CWC%20belt.jpg "Dry Humper" Enamorado Bandito Current OW (360K ID) champ Question: For either the rush project or the long and drawn out version. When should I be testing the fighters to check for hiddens? Also, what is generally accepted as an immediate sack? Now this is something that changed, cause back then we didnt have TWGC. not as important for ground game tho, if you are going for a submission artist/TWGC guy. Immediately check learning speed and thats pretty much it. If you are going to fight in MMA, its the same as everybody else. Cuts, bad chin, bad morale, no heart... You only need KO power if GnP centered strategy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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