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Why has the ATT vs Brazilians TUF season been such a disappointment?


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At first this seemed to have so much potential. Rival MMA gyms whose owners hate each other in the same town. Seemed like a can't miss formula, but having watched all 7 episodes with great expectations, it seems I always leave feeling... "meh."

Is there anything they can do to fix TUF, or is it simply a show that's run its course?

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Simply put, ATT sucks balls. They are loaded with shit talkers who talk mad shit then when they get in the cage ignore coaches, don't bother with the game plan that might get them a win.. and are not superior to Blackzilians.

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ATT ran a whole bunch of washed up, regional level journeymen out there. I was kind of surprised to see so many older retreads entered on their team. Blackzillians went much younger and used it as an opportunity to get some attention on their prospects. It might just be the demographics of the two camps, I dont know.

Both owners come off terribly. Most of the fighters seem like they have the typical generic fighter personality. Making it about the camps over the fighters seems to have cut down on the amount of time they have to tell individual fighters stories. I think I've liked it more than any of the recent non-female seasons.

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I think a lot has to do with substandard fighters compared to seasons past (except Season 16 or 19). You have eight fighters from the same weight class at the same school. Typically how many fighters from the same school and the same weight class in the UFC at the same time? My bet is it's closer to 2-4 rather than 8.

 

One good thing: crowd energy. I dig the crowds at the schools showing up because quite frankly, they've elevated some of worse fights to slightly mediocre.

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I dunno, I think some of the Blackzillian youngsters have some good potential. ATT selections were quite poor though. The guy they just drafted in to replace Montgomery was the guy who at one point was giving fighters like Askren trouble. Why they didn't pick him in the first place, who knows.

 

I think the biggest issue with this season is a byproduct of the new formula. They're competing as a team/collective more than before, so particularly with the Blackzillians, they're fighting relatively safe and winning. There's less focus on being an individual standout, and rather competing as a gym/family and winning safely. Their first four fighters for example, were all relatively strong grapplers and fairly easily dominated using relatively safe grinding techniques (with only Baby Monster going and getting a finish).

 

The last fight pretty much confirms my theory also, in that the Blackzillian owner/coaches were visibly UPSET at Luque for using Jits and going for submissions at the end of the 2nd round, rathering he'd just lean on the fence with Coy pressed on him presumably as he'd likely won the round anyway (which I think he did, but judges didn't agree). I thought that was really weird, given they weren't complaining when he locked in an anaconda choke in the 3rd....

 

Lastly, I think there's far more footage of coaching discussion this season (given the selection criteria). This feels like filler to me with no entertainment value. Necessary filler (due to format), but still filler. That airtime in previous seasons may have been used on something SLIGHTLY more interesting (house drama, Brazil TUF's next Octagon girl segments, actual technique discussion, etc). I mean most of that stuff some people hate, but I still think it's better than "ooh, should we pick this guy or that guy, who really wants it?" every single episode with no further indepth discussion.

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I have seen every TUF pretty much. I like the concept of this one a lot, it is new and has history to it. Either way I always pick a team to support at the beginning and this time I chose ATT, I am still rooting for them but they have not been fighting well, its like they freeze when they get in the cage and a few of them were not throwing nearly enough strikes or anything, was very very frustrating to watch. Despite his fairly poor attitude I really want to see Graves fight again, he looks like he has talent if he gets his mind set right. Hayder is my favorite because he goes in there to knock the fuck out of his opponent. Blackzilians are definitely better so far though and have played more wisely. The way Jackson dodged practically every strike was pretty amazing, very quick on his feet, who else wants to see him and Hayder fight?

 

As far as entertainment goes with this one, yeah I was hoping for more house antics and beef and perhaps more entertaining fights too. We need a June Browning, Jamie Yager, Josh Koscheck type of guy in there as much as I hated them all it definitely added something to the series.

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they don't have the tear up the gym mentality of every other season because they're not going to destroy their own gym and if they destroy the other team's gym, it's going to be a brawl. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it seemed, at least from most of the seasons I watched, they were always putting holes in walls or ripping down doors, not just at the house but at the UFC Training facility.

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The way Jackson dodged practically every strike was pretty amazing, very quick on his feet, who else wants to see him and Hayder fight?

 

Jackson's handspeed was impressive, the other guy had no answer for his jab. I'm pretty sure him and Hayder HAVE fought before (outside the show) though, with Hayder winning a decision.

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Jackson's handspeed was impressive, the other guy had no answer for his jab. I'm pretty sure him and Hayder HAVE fought before (outside the show) though, with Hayder winning a decision.

Ye those two have fought before and they were both on the tuf show together having a bit of back and forth about the fight they had, Hayder won. That's why I wanna see then fight again!

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Pretty sure Hayder won by 3rd round tko.

 

I have to say I'm not enjoying this season as nearly as much as others, although the standard of tuf was slipping. This has been a dissapointment to me. My favourite season recently has to be Sonnen vs Jones.

 

With this new team format as somebody mentioned above me.. they're fighting for their team so they are just grinding out the decisions, there is no bonus for finishes at all this season which blows my mind.

I much preferred the old style individual tournament with the relaxed team format where you may have to fight a team mate. It just spiced things up, you could empathize with the guys and be like damn.. thats gonna be awkward, but with this season it just isnt fun. And the blackzillians are doing my head in. Kamaru talks like he is god, Jackson needs a bit of Hayder therapy for his attitude and Carrington Banks looks like a donkey. All the Brazillians are thick as shit and dnd every sentence with "you know" but I quite liked Luque.

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I think a lot has to do with substandard fighters compared to seasons past (except Season 16 or 19). You have eight fighters from the same weight class at the same school. Typically how many fighters from the same school and the same weight class in the UFC at the same time? My bet is it's closer to 2-4 rather than 8.

 

One good thing: crowd energy. I dig the crowds at the schools showing up because quite frankly, they've elevated some of worse fights to slightly mediocre.

IMO, the talent level is higher than the typical TUF season. As far as I know, the producers didnt screen based on personality as they usually do. That will usually knock a couple of more talented fighters off the show to get someone they think will be more engaging to the viewers on there. At least half of the blackzillians looked more like LW's to me, so I think they arent all in the same weightclass.

 

Personally, I dont get upset when guys fight to win rather than put on a show. This is their job, they will make more in the long run by winning rather than trying to be entertaining. Dana keeps getting edited in with his tired spiel about "wanting it", I fast forward everytime that roided up puke comes on screen.

 

All in all, there looked to be quite a few good prospects on the blackzillians team and the gym is coming off far better than ATT in process and personality at this point. ATT seems to be giving their old journeymen a chance to fight their way into the UFC who were never going to get the call any other way at this point.

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The last fight pretty much confirms my theory also, in that the Blackzillian owner/coaches were visibly UPSET at Luque for using Jits and going for submissions at the end of the 2nd round, rathering he'd just lean on the fence with Coy pressed on him presumably as he'd likely won the round anyway (which I think he did, but judges didn't agree). I thought that was really weird, given they weren't complaining when he locked in an anaconda choke in the 3rd....

 

 

I think it had more to do with not much time to work the submission and he was eating Coy up in stand up battle. And it really wasn't there... not a great position to try from. In the 3rd Coy GAVE his next up... with loads of time on the clock, that makes all the difference.

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The ATT coach has come across as a complete and utter asshole, so I'm glad they're getting tonked.

 

I agree with the analysis that there aren't enough good fighters in just one weight class. I think they will probably spread it out over a few more weight classes if they do it again.

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No coaches challenge either though the owners have almost gotten into a few times.

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they don't have the tear up the gym mentality of every other season because they're not going to destroy their own gym and if they destroy the other team's gym, it's going to be a brawl. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it seemed, at least from most of the seasons I watched, they were always putting holes in walls or ripping down doors, not just at the house but at the UFC Training facility.

 

 

No coaches challenge either though the owners have almost gotten into a few times.

You seem to like the absolute worst aspects of TUF. To each his own I guess.

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The best season was Jones vs Sonnen. stopped watching after rouse vs Tate

Yeah man, TUF 17 was where I started. It was crazy watching Uriah Hall :D Also, there was a lot of crazy talent there as well.... And finishes:

Uriah Hall vs. Adam Cella

Uriah Hall vs. Bubba McDaniels

Gilbert Smith vs. Guy who flying kneed him on TD attempt

Kelvin Gastelums RNC's

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I watched the very first season, then I dropped off and watched in and out, watched Rampage/Griffin, watched Noguria/Mir, watched Rampage/Evans, watched Bisping/Miller, watched Cruz/Faber, watched Jones/Sonnen, watched Pettis/Melandez, and the current season.

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I don't think this season has been to bad. I didn't watch the last couple, I got tired of all the crap they pulled tearing everything up all the time. Plus it was like they wanted them to just act like a bunch of thugs, got to the point I couldn't stand it. This year I decided to try it because of the gyms. I like it better than the last few I watched.

 

Yes some of the fighters are playing it safe but a win is a win. I sure hope that this is not the best that ATT has, or they are in trouble. Makes me wonder if they are going to have a hard time bringing in new fighters to train after this. To me if you have 1 fighter not ready or in the right mindset, that is the fighter. But if every fighter is that way that is the coach.

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glad hayder won! I think Glen was milking that cage grab too much it happens all the time and he let go after a bit... plus its not like the brazilian guy was keeping him down when he even managed the takedown. I think the decision win was fair as hayder was packin a lot more power in his punches but tbh was probably expecting a 3rd round because the other filipe put up a decent fight. If it went to the 3rd i think Hayder woulda got the job done anyway but who knows.

 

Predictions for next match up?

 

I am going with either Graves or the new entry for ATT against Jackson. I don't think ATT will bring back Hayder just yet after that fight, even though he has won both their only wins for them.

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Oh I agree it won't be this week... but with only Coy and Haydar showing up to fight I could see Haydar in the last fight if needed.

 

Those cage grabs were enough to stop at least one takedown, I think even Lambert realized they got away with one because he didn't outright deny or talk shit about Glen about the cage grabs.

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Yeah i think there shouldve been a 3rd round, Glen was right as well, he warned him about the cage grabs twice which is a point.

 

Problem is Hayder is their best fighter so i dont see how ATT can keep it at their home.

 

100-200 score going into the last 4 fights worth 100 is really close though, all those early wins really mean nothing and im tired of hearing "we are 6-2" No you arent, youre up 1 win because the points setup

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