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2016-2017 NBA Discussion


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So with just month to go before the season starts and most teams have already pulled off their trades for the season, how do you see things going this year?

 

After the Cav's made the biggest comeback in NBA history (coming from 3-1 behind to win it), things seems to be fully moving in favor of the Warriors after they signed Durant. The Spurs seem to be in rebuild mode after last year many people saw them as favorites, with Duncan (and i think Ginobli) retiring.

 

For me, it is not a one sided story in favor of the Warriors, sure they added Durant, but offense was not their problem last year. I mean how many points can they physically score? The league likes to hype the GS defense, but truth is they had several weaknesses there. For one they would get bullied on the rebounds and when their big man went out, they had no paint protection. They were prone to mistake in games and Durrant is not exactly famous for having few turnovers.

 

Like every year i am optimistic about my own team, the Lakers (i know, i am delusional) but for me, NOT HAVING Kobe is the biggest plus. Last year it was a waste, it was like all about him waving to the fans and him taking stupid shots, the whole team struggled but swallowed their pride to let the guy retire on his terms. It was a terrible year though for developing our younger core (i was at least hoping we would do that) and Scott was useless as a rebuilding coach, very little progress was done. This year we signed a new coach Walton from GS and we got the 2nd round pick. I kind of like what i saw of him (although i did not see much).

 

I still think it is between the Cavs and GS, but injuries and form will play it's role. What do you think?

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  • 4 weeks later...

There would have to be some significant injuries for the finals to not be Cavs vs GSW 3. They're by far the best teams in the league imo.

 

I'm excited to see what my Suns do with so much young talent (especially Booker). If they develop well we could be real contenders in the near future (I'm banking on Booker becoming a superstar though).

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There would have to be some significant injuries for the finals to not be Cavs vs GSW 3. They're by far the best teams in the league imo.

 

I'm excited to see what my Suns do with so much young talent (especially Booker). If they develop well we could be real contenders in the near future (I'm banking on Booker becoming a superstar though).

I agree I think Booker is going to be a superstar and expect the sun to be around a 8th seed

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I hope the Lakers take a step in the right direction but still miss the playoffs because I want their 1st round pick finally and don't want it to be in the 20's lol. I also hope the Kings suck so that if the 76'ers have a better record than them (which i doubt) we have the rights to swap 1st round picks w/ them if theirs is higher (though I'm not sure that is protected).

 

Aside from that I'd like to see the 76'ers win some more games. I'd like to see Embid stay healthy for the entire season. He'll be on a minutes restriction of 20-25 mins a night and probably won't play at all on back-to-back games but no significant injuries because he looks like an absolute stud from what I've seen of him so far. Also I hope we make a trade to get rid of some of our big guys because we have way too many

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I hope the Lakers take a step in the right direction but still miss the playoffs because I want their 1st round pick finally and don't want it to be in the 20's lol.

 

I think that is what will happen, i expect the Lakers to be better but will still miss the playoffs.

 

I am mildly optimistic about Lakers this year, young team, Walton's philosophy is a much better that the crap Scott was putting on the pitch. We actually try to play D this year, plus there is much better ball movement + we shoot the 3, less isolation. Russell seems to be a lot more confident and is playing better and I think Mosgov, Deng are decent veteran additions to this young team. The downside so far is that Ingram has been very average, playing without much confidence, but I think his problem is he just is not taking enough chances and is very unselfish. I think he has the tools though, but he is WAY off from being a finished product. At the second pick you expect someone which can make an instant impact, well, he is not that, he will likely be playing off the bench this year to Deng. The best thing about the Lakers this year (besides not having Scott as coach), is that Bryant has finally left, the past 3 years he has been crap and simply pulling the team down with his attitude and ego. Last year was essentially a whole year of Bryant waving his hand to the crowds and taking crap shots.

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Yeah I didn't think Ingram would make an immediate impact just because he seems too scrawny. I know he was working on putting muscle on the same way Ben Simmons did. Ben looks massive now, he was 217lbs on draft night and now he's about 250lbs. Such ashame he got injured because I was looking forward to seeing him this year. I don't think he would've had a great perimeter shot or had a terrific shooting % this year but I think he still would've averaged double digits just from attacking the rim and getting to the line. But his play-making ability will be sorely missed on this team that doesn't have great guard play.

 

 

Embid though has looked like a monster. He looked rusty and turned the ball over too much his first few pre-season games but suddenly his last 3 games he's gone for 12 pt & 4 reb in 12 mins played, 12 points and 5 rebounds in 13 min played and then 11 points and 12 rebounds in 14 min played. So he's suddenly starting to look like the guy that we expected him to be when we drafted him knowing he'd miss a full season. #TrustTHEProcess

 

 

We took so much criticism for drafting him because our team was so bad and then we took Saric and Embid in the same draft and neither guy was going to play for us for at least 1 season. But there was such a significant drop off between Embid and the 4th and 5th best guys Dante Exum and Julius Randle or whoever else would've been put in that mix I really didn't think we had any choice but to take Embid. If we had lucked into the #1 pick that year we clearly would've taken Andrew Wiggins, but the ping pong balls fell how they did and when Embid got injured before the draft I knew we were gonna end up being stuck w/ him at #3. If he can actually stay healthy in his career which I have serious doubts about.....we may be thanking our lucky stars we picked #3 that year

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Lakers lost their last preseason game, i think they lost 5 in a row (which is something we are getting used to in the past 3 years). For me the biggest disappointment is Ingram, i was hoping he could come into the league and at least be a starter on this weak Lakers team, he is nowhere near that level now. He lacks confidence, he is very underweight and get bullied a lot, his well advertised long range shooting i saw very little of. He has pretty good handles and length for a guy his size, but that does not justify being #2 pick. I think he could eventually become something eventually, but that could take a good 3 years at least. For what it is worth though, i think we have a better team than last year......................not that it is saying much, we had our worse season in franchise history. I think Walton will figure it out eventually, he does have enough talent on the team to achieve that, but we are talking a good 3 years assuming they can keep the core together.

 

Either way, i am looking forward to the season starting next week.

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18 points & 9 reb in 18 min against the Heat for Embid the other day. Such ashame we won't have Ben Simmons til January I was looking forward to seeing these guys play together finallyy. I've been pleasantly surprised by Dario Saric so far as well.

 

We need to ship Noel or Okafor out of town for some damn guards though. Jeryd Bayless & Gerald Henderson are nice rotational players but they are far from starting guards in the league. We'll probably end up with 2 top 10 picks this year so maybe we'll get guards there for next year. But damn can't we do like Okafor, Covington & both '17 first round picks for Damien Lillard or something. Lillard, Simmons, Saric, Embid & whoever u don't trade Noel/Okafor? Then we'd be getting somewhere

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There is no way they will give you Lillard for Okafor, Covington and 2 draft picks. I would say that at this moment Lillard is possibly the most valuable PG in the league if you look at his age. I saw him against Curry and he gave him a run for his money. Unlike Erving, he is also a better defensive player as well. Okafor is an unproven, throwback center, the type most managers do not really want, ie, a type which works in the post and is not a fantastic rim protector/defender. Covington is just cap space. I see you have the cap space, so you can probably fit him in. Someone like Okafor can "maybe" get you someone like Russel from the Lakers and even then it is a big maybe. I am not sure they would give away Russel for Okafor now because they lack a proper player to fill in his shoes, where as at the same time they have Mosgov at center. Defensively he is better than Okafor.

 

You are right though, you need to offload Okafor, you can probably land a starting point guard for him and having him on the bench does not make sense when you already have 2 good centers.

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There is no way they will give you Lillard for Okafor, Covington and 2 draft picks. I would say that at this moment Lillard is possibly the most valuable PG in the league if you look at his age. I saw him against Curry and he gave him a run for his money. Unlike Erving, he is also a better defensive player as well. Okafor is an unproven, throwback center, the type most managers do not really want, ie, a type which works in the post and is not a fantastic rim protector/defender. Covington is just cap space. I see you have the cap space, so you can probably fit him in. Someone like Okafor can "maybe" get you someone like Russel from the Lakers and even then it is a big maybe. I am not sure they would give away Russel for Okafor now because they lack a proper player to fill in his shoes, where as at the same time they have Mosgov at center. Defensively he is better than Okafor.

 

You are right though, you need to offload Okafor, you can probably land a starting point guard for him and having him on the bench does not make sense when you already have 2 good centers.

 

 

Yeah I knew that trade is far-fetched. I didn't really even put much thought into it I was just trying to figure out how we could land a guard. Covington is a decent player though, he's not a starter on a contending team but I think he's a nice rotational player. I'm thinking the only way we really land a trade like this is gonna be via a 3 way trade. I think the Blazers were a bit of an aberration last year though, not to say they're not still a borderline playoff team that probably gets in but to me if CP3 and Blake hadn't been hurt last year they most certainly would've fallen in the 1st round.

 

I think Okafor is going to be a 20/10 guy in his career but he does provide little rim protection. He kinda reminds me of Vucevic from the Magic a bit as far as being able to produces numbers but not really being good on both sides. I think Okafor would fit in w/ Portland's personnel though. They were using Plumlee in the playoffs almost the way the Warriors use Draymond Green. Where they use him in the pick and roll, give him the ball up near the top of the key and send guys on cuts that he can pass to. So I think that would leave Okafor plenty of space on the inside to work because Plumlee would be away from the basket.

 

 

The blazers need some post play though and they'd still have CJ McCollum, I think Allen Crabbe is developing into a nice player. They also have Evan Turner who used to bring the ball up and facilitate at Ohio State and early on for Philly so he could fill in at that role for 1 season. They would absolutely take a step back for this season but they'd also have potentially two top 10 picks in next years draft to reload if we traded them both '17 first round picks we have. I'm thinking the Lakers are likely picking in the bottom of the top 10 & even if Lillard/Simmons/Embid could get the 76'ers out of being basement dwellers we have the RIGHTS to swap picks w/ the Kings if they finish worse than us and I think they look look like they're going to be absolutely dreadful. I'd be willing to throw Saric in the mix too who can also play point forward to help fill in it spots for 1 season.

 

 

Trailblazers:

 

C: Festus Ezeli

C: Jahlil Okafor

C: Myers Leonard

PF: Mason Plumlee

PF: Dario Saric

PF: Noah Vonleh

SF: Al-Farooq Aminu

SF: Evan Turner

SF: Richard Covington

SF: Maurice Harkless

G: CJ McCollum

G: Allen Crabbe

G: Shabazz Napier

 

 

I actually don't think that'd be a terrible roster. Covington is really a 3 & D guy. He averages like 1.5 steals and shoots about 37-38% from 3 pt I think he's averaged about 13 pt and 6 reb the last two years playing about 28 min a game for us. If that was their roster and they picked at #3 and #10 in the 2017 draft (mock draft has us picking #3 and #5 btw). I realize it's way too early to be looking at mock drafts and such but if you just went w/ the #3 and #10 picks in the current mock drafts just as an idea what they could end up w/ in the trade.....

 

Markelle Fultz

 

Jonathan Isaac

 

 

So really at the end of the day that trade would end up being Damien Lillard for Jahlil Okafor, Dario Saric, Robert Covington (or maybe swap him out w/ G. Henderson or J. Bayless if they need a guard back), Markelle Fultz & Jonathan Isaac.

 

I still doubt they'd ever make that trade because Lillard is their box office star and they wouldn't be getting anything box office in return. So I really think something like this would only happen w/ more teams involved. But I do expect a significant trade from the 76'ers sometime in the next year.

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My point is, why offload Lillard and get an old school center? Portland is a 3pt orientated team, they even moved Plumlee to center and Leonard is a stretch 4 or 5 depending on what you are playing. They already have a rim protector. If they give you Lillard they will basically be in the position that you are in (in other words with too many big players and not enough quality at Guard). Lillard plays massive minutes which is why they get away with their short bench at Guard. I watch quite a lot of West coast basketball and i would say there is pretty much nothing which will persuade Portland to offload Lillard now, their whole system is built around his ability to drive and shoot. I also think this year he is looking even better, he seems electric quick, his range is almost Curry country, he is also getting to the rim better, i remember when he was younger he would get blocked a lot (i think he was first in that negative stat), he is stronger now and more experienced.

 

To me, if your center lacks the ability to mark (at least competently) any position and or the ability to either block or get offensive rebounds consistently, then he is basically useless. Okafor is not a great offensive rebounder, most of his rebounds are mop up defensive types, he is not a shot blocker and he does not have the feet to defend the pick and role effectively, He is not terrible at any of the above, but he is not great at either. His biggest strength is the low block offensively, he is a monster there. He could already be a top 10 player in that category, the problem is that less teams play that style these days and his downsides mean he wont be a great trade card. I think on the right team he can be very effective, in a team surrounded by shooters (not Phili) which also have 1-2 guys which can attack the basket, i think he can almost anchor the attack. Not sure what to do with him defensively though. I still think you can offload him for an experienced PG which is a starter, but not a franchise type player or an all star. Maybe a top 15 type PG.

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I hear what ur saying & all those points are valid but I'm not a believer in small ball come playoff time. The Warriors won a chip w/ it due to best backcourt in basketball & a bit of luck that every team they played had a star injured. They shouldn't have made the finals last year but the Thunder are dysfunctional & choked. But the way the Thunder abused them on the boards is exactly why that shit doesn't work in a slowed down half-court offense. So while I agree that trade won't happen, the Blazers as constituted w/ personnel & style of play will never make a western conference finals.

I actually don't even think Okafor gets shipped tbh. I think it's going to be Noel & Saric because Noel can do all those things defensively, just not as well as Embid. Also Embid has serious range so I believe him & Okafor can play on the court together. Saric is basically a B version of Ben Simmons. Both guys have the ability to play back to the basket. Both can play point forward & orchestrate the pick & roll. Saric is a better jump shooter than Simmons but he can't even sniff at Ben's ability to attack the rim. He also just doesn't seem nearly as athletic so won't be as dangerous in the open floor and probably won't be able to defend as well. They're skillsets are similar enough though that I think we end up dumping Saric.
It wouldn't shock me if they try to trade for a SG instead of a PG and then offer a max contract to Kyle Lowry who has already said he wants to test FA at the end of the season. Lowry played for Villanova and is a philly boy and that's who I think they're going to target as their PG for the next 4 years and probably use one of our draft picks to draft a PG of the future. That's my guess at what they're approach will be tbh
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I have to say that I thought in the pre season that the cavs made the right moves and I see them as the favorites to win it. GS have a lot of scoring but they gained that at the expense of their bench and rim protection. They had 115 points last year which was the 2nd highest all time, so scoring was not the problem. Durrant is a scorer, he wont offer much defensively. As you mentioned, small ball is fine, but you still need bigs which will do the defensive work at least and having at least one big which can get you an in the post basket does help. Come to think of it, GS would benefit from having Okafor or Noel or in fact both, the problem is that they do not have much to offer other than their top 4 players and they wont offload those. Besides that i think they are looking to win now and neither of those 2 players provide the experience worth risking on (although i would risk if i was them, they got mauled by the Spurs on the boards on Tuesday).

 

Anyway, we will see, but I see clear problems with GS, it is not a clear cut ring for them as people were predicting.

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Saric played like ass yesterday was missing wide open shots. Okafor missed 2 or 3 easy baskets too but he hasn't played a min for 7 or 8 mo. before last night.

Embid played very in-efficient he also missed 4 to 5 baskets I think down the road he finishes consistently but still had 20 pt, 7 reb & 2 blk in 22 min. I liked how they looked w/ Okafor coming in as the back-up C. That's a nice scoring punch off the bench if you can get him 25 to 28 min a game.
Too bad Ben & Noel are out & half our team has minute restrictions though. I'm looking forward to this season. I expect we'll lose a lot of close games down the stretch because we don't have a guard who can close out games. They did a great job getting that PG from Spain. He has 12pt & 9ast with 0 TO yesterday. I'd still rather he be on our 2nd unit though
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I have to say that I thought in the pre season that the cavs made the right moves and I see them as the favorites to win it. GS have a lot of scoring but they gained that at the expense of their bench and rim protection. They had 115 points last year which was the 2nd highest all time, so scoring was not the problem. Durrant is a scorer, he wont offer much defensively. As you mentioned, small ball is fine, but you still need bigs which will do the defensive work at least and having at least one big which can get you an in the post basket does help. Come to think of it, GS would benefit from having Okafor or Noel or in fact both, the problem is that they do not have much to offer other than their top 4 players and they wont offload those. Besides that i think they are looking to win now and neither of those 2 players provide the experience worth risking on (although i would risk if i was them, they got mauled by the Spurs on the boards on Tuesday).

 

Anyway, we will see, but I see clear problems with GS, it is not a clear cut ring for them as people were predicting.

If the Warriors are hitting their 3s I doubt any team can beat them, regardless of bigs, rim protection, or anything. Considering their big 3 seems to choke on the big stage though then yeah I give the cavs a good chance to beat them.

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If all you have is 3 Pts, then you will be in trouble. Also, GS are a lot more thin this year, so if someone gets injured then they wont have that deep bench to fill in for them.

That used to be the thinking but we've seen them win a title and be a single shot away from repeating by playing small ball and relying on the 3. Its just too much firepower for any team imo. You're right about how thin their bench is, after an aging iguodala and Livingston there isn't much left where as last year they were able to depend on a whole bunch of guys to produce on both sides of the court.

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Personally i am not a huge fan of just using the 3 ball, you have to be able to drive, get to the free throw line and you still need to defend, i think GS lost parts of that with the new lineup.

 

Anyway, i had the opportunity to watch the Lakers yesterday night (we beat Houston) and i have to say, that at least this year we will be emotional and entertaining. We wont be particularly good, but still. Last year was a circus with Bryant's farewell party.

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