The Great Debate: TRT

[Guest]

So i noticed many people talking about TRT and the different perspectives on it.

 

What are your thoughts?

[Guest]

If its legal its legal you can use it.

 

I heard on news that allowed TRT ration is something like 1:6 but a normal man has like 1:1-3. Sonnen was busted with 1:14 and Overeem with 1:12 if I remeber corectly but also as we all know there are deseases and problems that lover your testastaron levels so I think you should decrese that norm from 1:6 to 1:3 so everyone is equal at that point or more balanced out.

[rac2]

If it's legal you can use it, but IMO it should become illegal. This is just my opinion though, built from overall perception after reading news, blogs and forum posts. I don't consider myself to be an expert on the subject nor did I put adequate scientific study into it.

[Guest]

The problem the sport, all sports, and society is going to have to deal with is how can you ban this stuff if it does extend the prime of your life? For the sake of sports and entertainment we cant keep turning out backs on what we are seeing. What that is fight people who use PE's for performance(unlike body builders) who add 10+ years to the most physically productive point of their life. Not only that. But they have a better quality of life into their 60's. Lets look at Barry Bonds. He has almost every record in baseball. Had the best career. Was the best in the game into his 40's. Made millions of dollars and at almost 49 is in better shape than people half his age. If he lives to his 70's no one is going to think he was cheated. Now im not saying PEs are for everyone or that they are healthy for everyone. That requires more testing which isn't done. Im also not saying there shouldn't be a level playing field in sports. But we are far from addressing these issues with an open mind. There is a witch hunt on PE's because of sports while the rest of the world spends millions to find what athletes found long ago. Do we really want to force fighters off of what is making them healthy and more productive people for the sake of sport? Would it be better if Vitor was forced to stop using his needed (self inflicted or not) TRT and watch him physically decline into a slower weaker less durable fighter and retire or get hurt? Im not sure what the answer to this issue is. Maybe there needs to be a all natural division and an open MMA division like Body building. If you want to stay clean there would be a division for you. If you are on testosterone, HGH, or other banned substance you go into the open division. But that wouldn't work either. The open division would turn into a freak show like pro body building and everyone roids to the max. IF that was to happen who would want to watch natural fighters? Just a watered down version. I guess the simplest answer is to keep the sport clean and anyone who feels they need PE's for health reasons need to find another line of work. I would also grand father in current TRT users and would give no more license for it. The Vitors and Chael can finish out their career then once they retire the sport would be clean of TRT and anyone whose health requires it isn't healthy enough for MMA. The TRT can of worms should have never been opened.

[Guest]

it it's gonna be legal, there should be stricter testing and a better system in deciding who gets trt and who doesnt. i would prefer it wasnt legal though. if your body cant naturally produce the amount of testosterone you need to get through a camp and to compete at the highest level...then you should retire.

[Guest]

If it's legal you can use it, but IMO it should become illegal. This is just my opinion though, built from overall perception after reading news, blogs and forum posts. I don't consider myself to be an expert on the subject nor did I put adequate scientific study into it.

TRT is a wonder drug and is becoming very popular in society. Many doctors are using it on every day people. They are putting almost everyone over 30-40 on it to counter the aging process. To say it should be illegal is crazy. Without it people have low energy, erectile dysfunction, loss of muscle mass and strength, among many other things. Some people need it for life due to accident, birth defect, or steroid abuse. Some need it for a short amount of time and it causes their nature testosterone production to start producing again. The only issue here is fighters are given TRT and they are not monitored. As long as they come into fight time at the normal level it doesn't matter how much they abused it during training camp and how much extra training, cardio, and muscle mass they were able to put on while abusing it. If they were tested weekly then they wouldn't be able to abuse it. But even then it is a complicated issue. I myself am prescribed a very small dose of testosterone. If I choose to use injections I would only need to do it bi weekly. But when you use injections which is what most do and the cheapest and most effective use. You always have higher than normal levels at the start and it tapers off until you get your next shot. It doesn't stay at X level for 2 weeks and disappear. So how can you tell if a fighter is abusing it or just took his normal shot and hasn't tapered off yet? Its a complicated issue.

[Guest]

it it's gonna be legal, there should be stricter testing and a better system in deciding who gets trt and who doesnt. i would prefer it wasnt legal though. if your body cant naturally produce the amount of testosterone you need to get through a camp and to compete at the highest level...then you should retire.

That's the way I feel. But I don't like the idea of forcing the few fighters who are using to retire over night. That's why I would grandfather then in and not issue anyone else a TUE for TRT. The problem would then take care of itself. A few of the fighters have stop using it. And Hendo, Vitor, and Chael and a few others don't have many fights left in them anyway. They also can test them to see who needs TRT because of Steroid use. There is a much better way to allow TRT then what they are doing. But you are right. Just because modern medicine can allow someone to complete when they normally couldn't doesn't mean you have to allow it. Modern medicine can also give you a titanium fist. It doesn't mean you will be allowed to compete and punch people with it. Both make it unfair for the opponents yet they believe they have to allow one. Doesn't make sense.

[rac2]

TRT is a wonder drug and is becoming very popular in society. Many doctors are using it on every day people. They are putting almost everyone over 30-40 on it to counter the aging process. To say it should be illegal is crazy. Without it people have low energy, erectile dysfunction, loss of muscle mass and strength, among many other things. Some people need it for life due to accident, birth defect, or steroid abuse. Some need it for a short amount of time and it causes their nature testosterone production to start producing again. The only issue here is fighters are given TRT and they are not monitored. As long as they come into fight time at the normal level it doesn't matter how much they abused it during training camp and how much extra training, cardio, and muscle mass they were able to put on while abusing it. If they were tested weekly then they wouldn't be able to abuse it. But even then it is a complicated issue. I myself am prescribed a very small dose of testosterone. If I choose to use injections I would only need to do it bi weekly. But when you use injections which is what most do and the cheapest and most effective use. You always have higher than normal levels at the start and it tapers off until you get your next shot. It doesn't stay at X level for 2 weeks and disappear. So how can you tell if a fighter is abusing it or just took his normal shot and hasn't tapered off yet? Its a complicated issue.

 

I meant it should be illegal in MMA. As in you can't fight if you need it. I thought it was clear from the context in which I typed, but now I see it clearly was not.

 

I myself am considering meeting an endocrinologist and running some tests to realize whether or not I should start being treated. I definitely won't want it to be illegal in case I need it

[Guest]

Personally, im against using it on sports fighters. It does give an unfair advantage. This is especially the case in Vitor's case as he used steroids in the past which has now lowered his ability to naturally produce testosterone and needs TRT.

 

That said, if he really does need it to live, like Chael says, then okay but fighting is not the sport for you as they can seriously damage other people. It is out of control the people that use it even if they dont win having testosterone over the normal ratio is not okay if they used TRT and got to the normal ratio okay

[Guest]

Personally, im against using it on sports fighters. It does give an unfair advantage. This is especially the case in Vitor's case as he used steroids in the past which has now lowered his ability to naturally produce testosterone and needs TRT.

 

That said, if he really does need it to live, like Chael says, then okay but fighting is not the sport for you as they can seriously damage other people. It is out of control the people that use it even if they dont win having testosterone over the normal ratio is not okay if they used TRT and got to the normal ratio okay

 

Yes but then you also cut the opportunity for the guys who have some problems with TRT.

[rac2]

Personally, im against using it on sports fighters. It does give an unfair advantage. This is especially the case in Vitor's case as he used steroids in the past which has now lowered his ability to naturally produce testosterone and needs TRT.

 

That said, if he really does need it to live, like Chael says, then okay but fighting is not the sport for you as they can seriously damage other people. It is out of control the people that use it even if they dont win having testosterone over the normal ratio is not okay if they used TRT and got to the normal ratio okay

 

Agree with everything, I'm just not sure it gives an unfair advantage if used rationaly. I mean, its purpose is to bring T levels to a normal - so, in theory, one would just normalize their level when in treatment. I believe the problem is the potential loophole it creates, which is the case of athletes who don't need it using it, as an excuse to "cheat within the rules". Extensive testing and level checking would resolve this issue, but I heard some interview with Lorenzo or Dana, don't really recall who was it, but one of those guys said this constant testing is not really doable. That's why I tend to "radicalize": something as tough to audit and track, and that has different approaches in different places, for the sake and sense of 'fairness' and 'sportsmanship' should better become prohibited, at least as of now, in my opinion.

 

I don't think it's happening with MMA, though. Many cash cows in TRT right now. Honestly, I think BS' suggestion of not granting new TUEs is the smartest and smoothest way to go... Won't be too long before the 'known cases' are retired and the sport can go on.

[Guest]

I also am not massively clued up but from what I gather I do not think it should be allowed. It appears to be used by people who are in their mid to late 30's due to testosterone levels dropping but to be honest in most physical sports when you are gettin to that age you are thinking about retirement and rightly so, especially with fighting - the most physically and mentally demanding sport there is probably! Its just my opinion but I think when playing sports it should be so that there are no advantages given to any players/fighters; it should be played at your natural potential, the harder your train the better you are and stuff like TRT gives you a boost to how you would normally train without it.

 

Everyone should be on equal playing fields and prove themselves without the need to take any performance enhancing drugs such as TRT, I think, that way we know who really is the best in the fight.

 

Again, I am not very clued up on the topic but from what I have seen this is how it should be.

 

As Dana said if you are gettin to the age where you think you need TRT, you should probably think about retirement.

[Guest]

Im all for people who need it getting it. But they really should have to step out of the sport if they need or want to use it. Imagine if you are 3-5 weeks out from a fight and you use TRT and you are in the hardest part of training camp and you are completely worn out. You can up the dose of Testosterone to get you through the next couple weeks of training at a high level when a normal younger fighter who isn't on TRT doesn't have the option to use TRT as a PE to get through the toughest part of the training camp. I know it would be hard for me not to bend the rules a little and chalk it up to gamesmanship with so much riding on the line. These guys are put on the honor system and very few people would in that position could resist the temptation.