Gyms Coaches ?

[SteelPenn]

I would like to hear what the perfect list of coaches should be in a private gym. Gyms now hold more then 12 coaches so what should be the focus? What should each coach be and why?

 

Can someone help me with this?

[PBR]

are you looking for an all around gym or more focused

[SteelPenn]

All around, I have read the help page but still would like to hear more?

 

Types of training

The following types of training are carried out with a trainer.

 

With a trainer

 

Coaches at a gym will have skill ratings in 5 different skills.

• Boxing training
  
• Muay Thai training
  
• Wrestling training
  
• BJJ training
  
• Fitness training
  

Each of the following types of training will look at one or more of these skill ratings when working out how effective their training is. See the coaches page for more information.

Punches

 

Trains purely your punching technique. Takes into account both your coaches boxing and muay thai training skills. With all of these basic types of training, you will receive some peripheral benefits to other skills. As an example, for punch technique you will also get peripheral benefits in boxing, muay thai, agility, speed, strength, conditioning and balance. You can figure the other training types out for yourselves.

Kicks

 

Trains your kicks and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's Muay Thai training level.

Standing Elbows

 

Trains your elbows and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's Muay Thai training level.

Knees

 

Trains your knees and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's Muay Thai training level.

Clinchwork

 

Trains your clinchwork rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's Muay Thai, wrestling and also a little boxing (secondary) training levels.

Striking defense

 

Trains your striking defense rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's Muay Thai and boxing training levels.

Takedown offense

 

Trains your takedown offense rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling training level.

Takedown defense

 

Trains your takedown defense rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling training level.

Ground n pound

 

Trains your ground n pound rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling and BJJ training levels.

Sub offense

 

Trains your submission offense rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling and BJJ training levels.

Defensive grappling

 

Trains your defensive grappling rating and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling and BJJ training levels.

Transitions

 

Trains your Transitions rating (moving from one position to another on the ground) and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling and BJJ training levels.

Escapes

 

Trains your Escapes rating (getting back to your feet from the ground) and any peripheral benefits. Looks at your trainer's wrestling and BJJ training levels.

Circuit training

 

This is an all-around strength and cardio session held by a specialized fitness coach. This type of training boosts all of your physical attributes. There are also more specialised versions of this type of training e.g. (Speed) or (Agility). These still train the range of skills but moreso in the skill mentioned.

 

 

Without a trainer

 

The following types of training require no coach to help you train. They will just use the gym's equipment and in cases of sparring your quality of training will depend on the skill level of the other fighter's training in the same slot as you.

Weights

 

Work on your strength in the weights room. Also get a slight boost to your speed by building up your muscle fibres. A very tiring workout.

Yoga

 

Work on your fighters flexibility, agility and balance. A low energy workout carried out without the assistance of any trainer.

Cardio

 

Get your ass on the treadmill and start running. The quickest way to improve your conditioning but also very tiring in the short term.

Boxing sparring

 

Trains your overall boxing rating and any peripheral benefits. You will spar with other fighters who are signed up to boxing sparring during this time slot. The better your training partners the more you will improve. If nobody else turns up, you won't get any training.

Muay Thai sparring

 

Trains your overall Muay Thai rating and any peripheral benefits. You will spar with other fighters who are signed up to Muay Thai sparring during this time slot. The better your training partners the more you will improve. If nobody else turns up, you won't get any training.

Wrestling drills

 

Trains your overall wrestling rating and any peripheral benefits. You will grapple with other fighters who are signed up to wrestling drills during this time slot. The better your training partners the more you will improve. If nobody else turns up, you won't get any training.

Submission grappling

 

Trains your overall BJJ rating and any peripheral benefits. You will grapple with other fighters who are signed up to submission grappling during this time slot. The better your training partners the more you will improve. If nobody else turns up, you won't get any training.

No training

 

You can select "no training" as an option for your fighter in a particular training slot. This will mean your fighter takes time off and recovers during this time slot - something they will need to do quite a lot, until their conditioning is up to scratch.

Training tips

• Your fighter will train more quickly when they are younger.
  
• Your fighter has a hidden skill value which dictates how easily they pick up what the coaches are teaching them. Some fighters will have a such low value for this attribute that it's almost not worth bothering training them at all.
  
• It is sensible to concentrate on training up your fighter in "<a href="http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=Energy_vs_conditioning" title="Energy vs conditioning">conditioning" early on. The higher their conditioning value, the harder they will be able to train without getting too tired (energy).
  

[PBR]

well lets look at all skills and what is used to start with

 

Punches - Double Elite (Boxing/MT) - 300 points

Kicks - Single Elite (MT) - 150 points

Elbows - Single Elite (MT) - 150 points

Knees - Single Elite (MT) - 150 points

Clinchwork - Triple Elite (Boxing/MT/Wrestling) - 450 points

Striking Defense - Double Elite (Boxing/MT) - 300 points

Ground n Pound - Double Elite (Wrestling/BJJ) - 300 points

Takedown Off - Single Elite (Wrestling) - 150 points

Takedown Def - Single Elite (Wrestling) - 150 points

Submissions - Double Elite (Wrestling/BJJ) - 300 points

Defensive Grap - Double Elite (Wrestling/BJJ) - 300 points

Transitions - Double Elite (Wrestling/BJJ) - 300 points

Escapes - Double Elite (Wrestling/BJJ) - 300 points

Circuit Training - Single Elite - 150 points

 

So that total would be 3450 skill points and 14 coaches -- well since that cannot be done cause of

 

Number of coaches: The current number of coaches at your gym. You may have up to 12 coaches of any skill, or if you keep your coaches total skill points below 3000, you can have up to 25 coaches.

 

lets look at other options -- if you want a coach for each skill period then that would be 14 coaches at Exceptional (130 skill points) (or have some Elite and some remarkable how ever you would like as long as below 3000 points) = 2990 skill points -- which is allowed but you will not be allowed to fire and rehire coaches because of the coach gaining skill would put you over 3000 points (at some point) which is the limit you have to stay under for more than 12 coaches

 

another option is going with 12 coaches and split up what coaches train -- such as one could train for example a double elite wrestling/bjj can train escapes and transitions -- while a single M/T can train both knees and elbow -- that would cut two coaches thus making only 12 needed and each skill is getting coached just not every session

 

there is several options and ways you could go about it -- too many to really explain but hopefully this gets you the idea of it

 

hope this all makes sense

[SteelPenn]

Thank you sir, this will work just fine. Very helpful.

[PBR]

Thank you sir, this will work just fine. Very helpful.

 

no problem hopefully might help some others cause always see some gyms set up wrong or wrong coaches teaching the skill

[Showdown]

http://www.mmatycoon...c.php?gmid=2253

 

This is my private gym, but I tried to follow the help page as close as possible when I did it. I have pretty close to a full-time coach for every single skill. The CT is a bit split, but everything else I have a full time coach for.

 

The Elites are 140 and the Superbs are 90.

 

I used this help page http://www.mmatycoon.info/index.php?title=Gyms_%28manager%29 it's located in the actual gym MANAGER page. I find it to be more detailed and complete with information than the normal gym help page as far as coaching info.

[Monsieur.Camara]

Good thread, had completely messed up my coaches at Riga so glad I bumped into this.

[Skuzbukit]

Below is my Gym set up (The Forge) arrived at after several months of experimentation.

Every Gym Manager should read the Gyms (Manager) & Training Pages, as well as all the links to other pages on those, before thinking about starting their own Private or Public Gym & they should bear in mind the costs involved in setting up any good gym are not small.

Notes:

1. When training it is usually advised to pick a preference between Knees & Elbows, I chose knees so my Elbows Coach is only good training up to (8) Proficient to begin with.

2. These points values allow for 17 coaches (1 per training type), the downside is the Manager will need to swap multiple or all coaches if several of them gets really big-headed and starts asking for huge pay increases, since all of these coaches will be gaining skill points over time. I recommend tracking wage increases so you will know when you have several getting greedy and it will be sensible to re-hire.

3. This set up and these coach values are best-suited to a roster of developing fighters rather than a roster full of matured fighters with many Elite level skills, though it will still offer Mature fighters good training. I think it's also an excellent template for a high quality Public Gym.

4. This is just 1 of many ways to set up a good gym, consider the kind of training you want to make available, at what quality, to how many fighters & at what cost before going ahead.

POINTS CAP	3000	Assigned	3000	355	655	795	635	560	Remaining	0
Priority	Coaching Type	Primary Requirement	Secondary Requirement	BX	MT	WR	BJJ	FIT	Signing Fee	Starting Wage	Current Wage	Increase
1	CT Agility	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
2	CT Balance	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
3	CT General	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
4	CT Speed	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
5	CLINCH	MT/WR	BX	75	140	140			8880	4440	4440	0
6	DEF GRAP	BJJ	WR			75	140		5222	2611	2611	0
7	ESCAPES	BJJ	WR			75	140		5222	2611	2611	0
8	G'N'P	WR	BJJ			140	75		5222	2611	2611	0
9	KICK	MT	--		140				4658	2330	2330	0
10	KNEES	MT	--		140				4658	2330	2330	0
11	PUNCH	BX	MT	140	10				4658	2330	2330	0
12	ELBOW	MT	--		85				1818	910	910	0
13	STRIKING DEF	BX/MT	--	140	140				8318	4159	4159	0
14	SUB OFFENSE	BJJ	WR			10	140		4658	2330	2330	0
15	TD DEFENSE	WR	--			140			4658	2330	2330	0
16	TAKEDOWNS	WR	--			140			4658	2330	2330	0
17	TRANSITIONS	BJJ	WR			75	140		5222	2611	2611	0
							Total		86484	43253	43253	0

[Daudy]

Cool breakdown and interesting to see what other people do. I think I'd structure my coaches a bit differently to what I have if I started from scratch particularly to be more point efficient. The following are just some observations and not intended at all as a tear down. Thanks for putting something up to look at!

1) If using the above template for a public gym, my observations are that I think your punches/SD will be way overloaded and your elbow/knees very underutilised. It's just how public gyms are - lots more emphasis on the more important basics. Public gyms will more likely have casual/newer players, so more 25 yo creations and the type. They're never going to realistically make a proper go at filling out some of the luxury skills. I'd consider just splitting sessions between knees/elbows on the one coach, then use the points from the elbows coach + one fitness coach + a couple of spare points from places (e.g. punches coach is still nearly optimal with no MT) to make another SD/punch coach hybrid. Even forgoing knees/elbows entirely for an extra kicks coach would probably make your public gym more lucrative.

2) My initial gut is that 4 conditioning coaches is way too many - even more so if it's a private gym with a mixed experience/developing roster. Could easily cut down to 3 and spend those points elsewhere. 4 coaches would be fine for a mega public gym, but I feel like if you've got that many members to justify 4 coaches, your classes for other things are way overloaded. For developing guys, 2 circuit sessions a week is fine while you grind other skills. For developed guys, one session a week to keep tickers away is fine - and for these guys you can also easily 'share' sessions with a couple. A developing roster, assuming a pretty standard build that starts with no punches/sd that will spend a bit of time training before fighting, will much prefer having more punch/SD sessions. Don't also forget a key part of their fitness will come from smashing weights with supplements (which can be super fast gains), so feel free to invest your initial points in other physicals - lowering the need even more for excessive circuit coaching.

3) Just a reminder to everyone that if you're doing a private gym, you have a lot of flexibility with points if you want to build something that longer term will allow you to have over the coaching skill softcap (since coaches gain points over time in the disciplines they train). There's no real practical difference between 139 and 140 points - but for a public gym that's the difference between 'elite' and 'sensational'. But shaving a few points off a coach (perhaps one dedicated to brand new fighters, so gains are still more or less maxed) here and there might sneak you an extra coach and in the long term, they will all gain points. For examples of what this looks like over a long time (and many salary increases) have a look at Convicted Fight Club. For a public gym that's done the same but hasn't been around for quite as long: Tappelukerho

[Skuzbukit]

Good feedback, thanks.

I had several aims with this set up, variety of training being a goal since I have been tailoring fighters to specific styles rather than a generic blueprint based on how their first couple of fight TOTT looked in order to reduce how many fighters I was letting go of who had decent learning & finding them a "style" to fit into that matched their attributes better.

Your points about the amount of CT coaches VS limited Punch & Striking Defense coaches was sound, it's less of an issue for my own roster with them spread across different types I can easily rotate their training around to suit. Were I doing an "open" Public Gym that would have to be an adaptation to save too much over-use of a few coaches & sacrificing some of the lesser-used coaches to cover that need would be smart.

[Skuzbukit]

On 9/13/2023 at 3:57 PM, Skuzbukit said:

Below is my Gym set up (The Forge) arrived at after several months of experimentation.

Every Gym Manager should read the Gyms (Manager) & Training Pages, as well as all the links to other pages on those, before thinking about starting their own Private or Public Gym & they should bear in mind the costs involved in setting up any good gym are not small.

Notes:

1. When training it is usually advised to pick a preference between Knees & Elbows, I chose knees so my Elbows Coach is only good training up to (8) Proficient to begin with.

2. These points values allow for 17 coaches (1 per training type), the downside is the Manager will need to swap multiple or all coaches if several of them gets really big-headed and starts asking for huge pay increases, since all of these coaches will be gaining skill points over time. I recommend tracking wage increases so you will know when you have several getting greedy and it will be sensible to re-hire.

3. This set up and these coach values are best-suited to a roster of developing fighters rather than a roster full of matured fighters with many Elite level skills, though it will still offer Mature fighters good training. I think it's also an excellent template for a high quality Public Gym.

4. This is just 1 of many ways to set up a good gym, consider the kind of training you want to make available, at what quality, to how many fighters & at what cost before going ahead.

POINTS CAP	3000	Assigned	3000	355	655	795	635	560	Remaining	0
Priority	Coaching Type	Primary Requirement	Secondary Requirement	BX	MT	WR	BJJ	FIT	Signing Fee	Starting Wage	Current Wage	Increase
1	CT Agility	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
2	CT Balance	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
3	CT General	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
4	CT Speed	FIT	--					140	4658	2330	2330	0
5	CLINCH	MT/WR	BX	75	140	140			8880	4440	4440	0
6	DEF GRAP	BJJ	WR			75	140		5222	2611	2611	0
7	ESCAPES	BJJ	WR			75	140		5222	2611	2611	0
8	G'N'P	WR	BJJ			140	75		5222	2611	2611	0
9	KICK	MT	--		140				4658	2330	2330	0
10	KNEES	MT	--		140				4658	2330	2330	0
11	PUNCH	BX	MT	140	10				4658	2330	2330	0
12	ELBOW	MT	--		85				1818	910	910	0
13	STRIKING DEF	BX/MT	--	140	140				8318	4159	4159	0
14	SUB OFFENSE	BJJ	WR			10	140		4658	2330	2330	0
15	TD DEFENSE	WR	--			140			4658	2330	2330	0
16	TAKEDOWNS	WR	--			140			4658	2330	2330	0
17	TRANSITIONS	BJJ	WR			75	140		5222	2611	2611	0
							Total		86484	43253	43253	0

Having run with the above set up for just under 6 months I learned that the 10 points in Wrestling for Sub Offense & the 10 Points in Muay Thai for Punch Technique never gained like all of the others so those "secondary requirements" might be fake or possibly not working as intended, they do not appear to be being learned by coaches like the others are which makes me think a single-point for those will be fine.

I then thought it might be an interesting experiment to see what happens if I put a minimum 1 point in all skills so I've done that & will see how that works out.

Here's how my Gym is set up now:

POINTS CAP	3000	Assigned	3000	503	780	780	642	295	Remaining	0
Priority	Coaching Type	Primary Requirement	Secondary Requirement	BX	MT	WR	BJJ	FIT	Signing Fee	Starting Wage
1	CIRCUIT TRAINING	FIT	--	1	1	1	1	140	4658	2330
2	CIRCUIT TRAINING	FIT	--	1	1	1	1	140	4658	2330
3	CLINCHWORK	MT/WR	BX	70	140	140	1	1	5116	4388
4	DEFENSIVE GRAPPLING	BJJ	WR	1	1	70	140	1	8774	2559
5	ESCAPES (TRANSITIONS / DEFENSIVE GRAPPLING)	BJJ	WR	1	1	70	140	1	5116	2559
6	GROUND AND POUND	WR	BJJ	1	1	140	70	1	5116	2559
7	KICKS	MT	--	1	140	1	1	1	4658	2330
8	KICKS (KNEES/ STANDING ELBOWS)	MT	--	1	140	1	1	1	4658	2330
9	KNEES	MT	--	1	140	1	1	1	4658	2330
10	PUNCH TECHNIQUE	BX	MT	140	1	1	1	1	4658	2330
11	PUNCH TECHNIQUE	BX	MT	140	1	1	1	1	4658	2330
12	STANDING ELBOWS	MT	--	1	69	1	1	1	1438	720
13	STRIKING DEFENSE	BX/MT	--	140	140	1	1	1	8318	4159
14	SUB OFFENSE	BJJ	WR	1	1	1	140	1	4658	2330
15	TAKEDOWN DEFENSE	WR	--	1	1	140	1	1	4658	2330
16	TAKEDOWNS	WR	--	1	1	140	1	1	4658	2330
17	TRANSITIONS	BJJ	WR	1	1	70	140	1	5116	2559
							Total		85574	42803

[Daudy]

Really interesting stuff regarding punches and submissions not appearing to raise the points of coaches. I personally always thought wrestling had nothing to do with subs, and I guess this supports that. I just tend to have the double wrestling/bjj guys also teach it because most other grappling skills require both and it gives me the flexibility to use them for other things.

The punching one is really interesting though, because the wiki very explicitly talks about it. It's very black and white, and I suppose a way to test it would be to see if a totally new build benefits at all from a MT only coach teaching punches. Looking at my own gym, I do have a guy who just teaches punches with maxed boxing and ~100 in MT, and just realised this whole time his MT has never gone up either. There's a chance this information and the wiki information can still coexist truthfully together, but that seems really strange and flies in the face of the rest.

 

On a different note, did you notice any difference in how your clinch coach's skills raised up? Like your MT/WR were set at the same level, have they gone up at the same pace? What about boxing? I'm assuming that's gone up too, but the rate of which might not be as comparable since it was lower and 'easier' to train, but it'd be telling if it went up the same number of points as MT/WR for example.

Also, reading between the lines, does this mean that your coach teaching GNP had his BJJ go up? That's another one I always thought was wrestling only.

[Skuzbukit]

1 hour ago, Daudy said:

Really interesting stuff regarding punches and submissions not appearing to raise the points of coaches. I personally always thought wrestling had nothing to do with subs, and I guess this supports that. I just tend to have the double wrestling/bjj guys also teach it because most other grappling skills require both and it gives me the flexibility to use them for other things.

The punching one is really interesting though, because the wiki very explicitly talks about it. It's very black and white, and I suppose a way to test it would be to see if a totally new build benefits at all from a MT only coach teaching punches. Looking at my own gym, I do have a guy who just teaches punches with maxed boxing and ~100 in MT, and just realised this whole time his MT has never gone up either. There's a chance this information and the wiki information can still coexist truthfully together, but that seems really strange and flies in the face of the rest.

 

On a different note, did you notice any difference in how your clinch coach's skills raised up? Like your MT/WR were set at the same level, have they gone up at the same pace? What about boxing? I'm assuming that's gone up too, but the rate of which might not be as comparable since it was lower and 'easier' to train, but it'd be telling if it went up the same number of points as MT/WR for example.

Also, reading between the lines, does this mean that your coach teaching GNP had his BJJ go up? That's another one I always thought was wrestling only.

Clinch coach skills raised for Wrestling, Muay Thai & Boxing.

GnP Coach saw both Wrestling & BJJ skills rising.

For all the coaches that had lower pointed skills (except for Punch Technique / Sub Offense) those rose at a slightly faster rate, which was pretty much expected as it lines up with how Fighter skill gains slow down at higher values. All the skills at the higher value increased at much the same rate, differences being attributable to how much those coaches were actually training fighters, the more training the coach was doing the faster they gained over the less-used coaches.