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Training Suggestion: Having to fight to improve skills.


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#1 Erik

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 10:21 AM

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Short post because I haven't though about this in great depth.

 

Right now the most effective way to train up a young fighter is to stick him in the gym for several in game years with a couple of hidden testing fights, in reality this is extremely unusual -- the act of competition helps a fighter gauge their skills and improve, but in MMA tycoon it's rare to see any significant number of fights on young fighters because it's also their prime learning time.

 

Perhaps grant some kind of learning bonus to fighters who have fought more recently, and perhaps some kind of negative to slow down those who haven't -- maybe making it harder to reach certain skill levels without fights, or just slowing learning down a bit entirely.

 

It would help the game on a few levels -- for one it would let new players have some kind of chance at lower hype levels instead of constantly running into project beasts, and for another it would get rid of the ridiculous sitting around until the fighter is quad sensational before having him fight.


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#2 Arcalimon

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 11:15 AM

I like it  :thumbup:


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#3 UniConor

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 11:24 AM

I really like this idea. I have thought about it too. I figured maybe have a motivation bonus, when you have a fight booked your skills train quicker than usual. Or maybe boost the effect of experience?
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#4 shockg

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Posted 21 October 2015 - 07:04 PM

Fighters tend to burn out about a certain number of fights.  Some people can fight a lot, most can't.    

 

If this type of experience system was to be put in place, I'd like it to be balanced with several factors.  I'm too busy to explain, but here are some easy examples:

 

Fighter A fights 20x by age 22.

 

Fighter B fights 20x by age 22.

 

Fighter C fights 30x by age 22. 

 

Who had better opponents (manger/fighter skill/record)?  Who beat fighters at their own game?  What level org are the fights in?  Do you make slider settings a factor (threw no kicks = no kicking help, etc)?  What is their base intelligence and how does intelligence relate to their experience learning curve?  Does fighter C have way better primaries/secondaries/physicals because he fought 10 more times?  Would everyone have to fight as much as possible?

 

This would be too complicated for the benefit.  Fighting a better skilled fighter will give you more experience than fighting a million cans.  It just all seems very exploitable.

 

XP boost while booked may work, but it would make scouting harder and could be very easily exploited.  It also would make the learning speed hidden less important, or more important depending on how it is tuned (less if it is capped learning speed, more if it is not and you can make young fighters that fight a lot with high learning speed and learn way faster than anyone else).  Could put in that injuries hurt training, but that would be a balancing nightmare!

 

There are always lower level orgs with id restrictions and weak fighters if you would like to fight your weak fighters vs other weak fighters.  Remember you also don't have to accept a fight against a monster if you're weak (though I've never turned down a promotion offered fight).  Tell the promoter to be fair with you.  You don't have to wait for fighters to get monster to fight, but you do if you want to reach the top.  Which is how I think it should be. 

 

Blah now I spent too much time.  :guitar:


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#5 Erik

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Posted 23 October 2015 - 09:03 AM

Fighters tend to burn out about a certain number of fights.  Some people can fight a lot, most can't.    

 

If this type of experience system was to be put in place, I'd like it to be balanced with several factors.  I'm too busy to explain, but here are some easy examples:

 

Fighter A fights 20x by age 22.

 

Fighter B fights 20x by age 22.

 

Fighter C fights 30x by age 22. 

 

Who had better opponents (manger/fighter skill/record)?  Who beat fighters at their own game?  What level org are the fights in?  Do you make slider settings a factor (threw no kicks = no kicking help, etc)?  What is their base intelligence and how does intelligence relate to their experience learning curve?  Does fighter C have way better primaries/secondaries/physicals because he fought 10 more times?  Would everyone have to fight as much as possible?

 

This would be too complicated for the benefit.  Fighting a better skilled fighter will give you more experience than fighting a million cans.  It just all seems very exploitable.

 

XP boost while booked may work, but it would make scouting harder and could be very easily exploited.  It also would make the learning speed hidden less important, or more important depending on how it is tuned (less if it is capped learning speed, more if it is not and you can make young fighters that fight a lot with high learning speed and learn way faster than anyone else).  Could put in that injuries hurt training, but that would be a balancing nightmare!

 

There are always lower level orgs with id restrictions and weak fighters if you would like to fight your weak fighters vs other weak fighters.  Remember you also don't have to accept a fight against a monster if you're weak (though I've never turned down a promotion offered fight).  Tell the promoter to be fair with you.  You don't have to wait for fighters to get monster to fight, but you do if you want to reach the top.  Which is how I think it should be. 

 

Blah now I spent too much time.  :guitar:

 

Regarding your first bit about number of fights, obviously it can be tweaked to favour certain things, but just giving some benefits for fighting is a place to start -- especially for new managers.

 

As for exploitable, virtually all systems are exploitable, the current game is heavily reliant on money laundering which is its self an exploit of sorts.

 

ID restricted orgs don't really address the project thing, an ID restriction is only a skill limit for about 3-6 months of real time under the current system.

 

It's ridiculous to suggest that fighters starting their careers should have monster skills already if they're to reach the top, a fighter should be able to take fights at a reasonable skill level and continue to develop while fighting as happens in reality.


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#6 Loveladdy

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Posted 24 October 2015 - 09:25 PM

This is a hugely helpful idea! The people have spoken!
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Posted 24 October 2015 - 11:37 PM

I'm not sure it has to be as complex as what shockg suggested?

 

When I first read Erik's post I thought of it more like a boost to learning which happens for a period after the fight has taken place. The fight itself would just act as a switch to activate the boost. This way the training in the gym still does the learning that everyone know's and understands but hopefully with the lure of a small boost to learning speed by regular fights it should get more fighters in the cage with no need for in depth programming to change the way fighters learn. 

 

As to whether he fights cans or not I'm not so sure this would really be an issue. I'm not sure the top managers who are hoping they have a #1 p4p fighter on their hands would risk their fighters credibility by fighting 10 cans before turning up at one of the top orgs. As for the rest, or the mediocre and below - well some still fight cans now, I'm not sure it would really change by a huge amount.

 

I also think it should be enough of a gain to tempt people to fight with their projects but not so large to penalise the very casual manager or the small percentage who would prefer to spend an extra amount of months training.

 

I think the OP's suggestion is an excellent idea, hopefully it would lead fighters to be much more active and could help help keep the interest of new players more if there are more fighters stepping in the cage and be better for the game in the long run.


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#8 shockg

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 12:42 AM

Well, instead of arguing every point I guess I'll just way this is what I don't want to see happen as a result.

 

Fighters taking fights x number of days out every time to ensure fastest learning potential.  

People being rewarded for spamming fights instead of planning.

Setting up sliders to win or lose with very little energy loss, so they can use training boost quicker. 

 

I think really what this all stems from is that many feel (especially newer managers) that it just takes too long to find fighters with good hiddens and then get them trained.  I feel that way too.  I'm not sure what Mike thinks about it, but I'd love to get a fighter up to speed a bit quicker than it takes now, but that is a fine line to ride.  We can't have everyone running monster fighters with very little time investment.  It is insulting to managers who spent their time and effort learning here, finding great fighters and winning.  It could dumb down the game significantly.  It is already easy enough to get ranked well when you start by winning QFC's with 25 year olds, then you can pick up some FA's that are trained up at least (may not have best hiddens but you might get lucky).


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#9 Erik

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Posted 27 October 2015 - 06:42 AM

1. Fighters taking fights x number of days out every time to ensure fastest learning potential.  

2. People being rewarded for spamming fights instead of planning.

3. Setting up sliders to win or lose with very little energy loss, so they can use training boost quicker. 

 

4. I think really what this all stems from is that many feel (especially newer managers) that it just takes too long to find fighters with good hiddens and then get them trained.  I feel that way too.  I'm not sure what Mike thinks about it, but I'd love to get a fighter up to speed a bit quicker than it takes now, but that is a fine line to ride.  We can't have everyone running monster fighters with very little time investment.  It is insulting to managers who spent their time and effort learning here, finding great fighters and winning.  It could dumb down the game significantly.  It is already easy enough to get ranked well when you start by winning QFC's with 25 year olds, then you can pick up some FA's that are trained up at least (may not have best hiddens but you might get lucky).

 

1. So don't publicize the frequency or even link it to how much the fighter has learned in some way.  No issue.

 

2. Nobody is suggesting making it so that new fighters need to fight every 2 weeks (how would they even train?), what is being suggested is making some level of competition mandatory for fighters to grow.

 

3. Meh, if people want to tank their own rank by taking quick losses, I'm not sure it's a big problem.

 

4. I'm not proposing that fighters learn any faster overall, what I am proposing is making the development of a fighter a bit less of a set and forget in the gym for months and a bit more involved and fun.  Right now it's like paying for a round the world trip and spending the first 15-30% of it not leaving your hotel room except to get on the next flight.  Hardly just newer managers either.. in fact I think I'd be one of the managers who has been around the longest.


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#10 SinKing

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 11:11 AM

Thought to post here because, it kinda is same topic.

Hope op dont mind.

 

I was thinking about training too.

How about fighters training started to slow down after x amount of weeks if he hasn't fight? No bonuses from fighting.

That would take out exploitation from fights.

training slowing should be knowledged by managers and could be connected to fighters training speed.

example. Let's say that training would start to slow after 2-3 months of training.

Fighter with slow learning starts to fade right away after 2 months, but fast learner would start to fade in 3 months.

If you fighted every 2 months no effect?

 

Does this make sense? I think it would make game more equal at least in id orgs, but i might be wrong.

 

This wouldn't change game much, just would take out a fighters that trains halfyear and then beats those guys that have plenty of fights.

 

and i know i can choose fights, but..

Hopefully you guys comment about this!

 

If OP wants this out of this thread send me message :)


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#11 Erik

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 03:08 AM

Bumping this seeing as it's at +15 and in the best ideas thread, I know it'd be a big change but the benefits seem pretty clear.


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#12 rac2

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 07:15 PM

This would be really awesome if it's significant. I mean, if we're fighting our projects, the delta in the learning speed gained from experience needs to be noticeable imho. I do think it's gonna add a lot fun to the game too, especially related to the way we're going to administer fighters.


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#13 embalmer

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Posted 22 November 2015 - 09:47 PM

++
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#14 Erik

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 01:02 AM

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#15 TPowell

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Posted 22 December 2015 - 08:59 PM

I think if you reward guys for fighting more than other guys, you have to make it a hindrance as well. After 30+ fights, they should start declining


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#16 edwardsfan

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Posted 24 December 2015 - 01:16 PM

Excessive training isnt the most realistic. I believe it could be fixed with systems already in place.

Do it thru morale. If a fighter goes too long without fighting (excessive training), then his morale begins to drop.

This system is already in place for sparring too many times in a row. Just tailor it to all training.
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Posted 12 July 2016 - 12:48 AM

Love the idea had to bump it.
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#18 KATSU

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Posted 06 August 2016 - 03:22 AM

:-)...keep it up
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#19 AldnoahZero

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 06:10 AM

I don't agree so -1 or whatever
In my eyes have to fight to raise ability is such ridicculous.At fight an aspect that should rising is experience,of course.So he won't nervous if he had another fight.But of course he can't raise his ability at that fight.Training is the only logical way to do that...
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#20 Erik

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Posted 18 October 2016 - 09:53 PM

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH goes the point right over someones head.


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