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Ticker Replacements


MMATycoon

Instant opinion & come back in two days...  

130 members have voted

  1. 1. What are your instant thoughts on the proposed system

    • I like a lot
    • I think I like it
    • Neutral
    • I don't think I like it
    • I definitely don't like it
    • I don't really understand what you're jibbering on about
    • I like parts of it but not others (and have explained which bits below)
  2. 2. And come back in 2 days and answer that same question again....

    • I like a lot
    • I think I like it
    • Neutral
    • I don't think I like it
    • I definitely don't like it
    • I still don't really understand what you're jibbering on about
    • I like parts of it but not others (and have explained which bits below)


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Under this system, I wouldn't mind seeing a new hidden added that affected your fighter's overall potential. This would give some variation at the top end (wouldn't have to be extreme)but would force managers to sacrifice something like Granite Chin or KO Power to go after it. Key phrases like Prodigy or Good Potential would identify these in the ToTT.

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not totally sold on that -- http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=136834 is at the 80% mark -- he has great wrestling with elite grappling d and takedown d

 

 

sadly http://www.mmatycoon.com/fighterprofilemanager.php?FID=41081 isnt even at 80% yet and has beaten high level wrestlers / blk belts

 

Sure, and he does not have awesome bjj, meaning that if he gets taken down there is a good chance that a ground specialist might beat him.

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Sure, and he does not have awesome bjj, meaning that if he gets taken down there is a good chance that a ground specialist might beat him.

sure i see what your saying but they have already been taken down and beat high level bjj fighters -- the ground doesnt work the same as stand up in that you need kicks to defend kicks and clinchwork to defend getting clinch raped -- ground defense all you need is grappling d and takedown d -- dont need subs or gnp to defend like you need to defend in stand up

 

im sure there are examples of both though cause hiddens come into play a lot but the gap for ground dominance and stand up dominance is way farther apart -- a wonderful boxing / wonderful m/t has a small chance against elite boxer / elite m/t -- but a wonderful wrestler / bjj has a much better chance against a elite wrestler / bjj fighter

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I like some of it, but i think everyone is making valid points, are you going to be able to just take useless elbows, and knees so you can still get to elite on other striking. Primaries seem to be way more important in standup than on the ground. Someone mentioned only physicals should decline. that i think is the key, force your fighter to spend more time staying in shape as they get older.

 

My thoughts on the standup vs grappling are this, what kind of wrestler would have say wonderful Takedown D but feeble takedown Off?? or i have a fighter with remarkable Def Grap but woeful Subs? What kind of Bjj is that? i think there should be some sort of requirement on that, but that has nothing to do with tickers i realize, anyway tickers. i don't like em much, physicals should decline, but primaries would in theory stay pretty solid through the years, maybe a combination of physicals and hiddens could make it interesting. e.g. granite chin and strength would make a bull hard to knockout, never gets injured and flexibility could make someone hard to Sub. but as your physicals deteriorate even an elite defensive grappler could get subbed due to old injuries etc.

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I hate this idea of "capping". If this gets put in place it could end up having more people quit. I would rather see a point where skills become very difficult to maintain via age and hiddens slowly go down along with physicals. I know a few people have already said it would be the nail in the coffin that see's them quit.

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I hate this idea of "capping". If this gets put in place it could end up having more people quit. I would rather see a point where skills become very difficult to maintain via age and hiddens slowly go down along with physicals. I know a few people have already said it would be the nail in the coffin that see's them quit.

 

 

i agree with this after reading through ideas more

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Well, while I'm not wild about a hard cap there isn't really any alternative that keeps sens across fighters from happening eventually that isn't 1) ridiculous and/or 2) time consuming.

 

Also agree 100% on what JLP says about grapplers.

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People forget that this is a game where going from useless-- to useless++ in 1 session is an accomplishment, and going from elite-- to elite++ takes 15+ (maybe more?) training sessions. How many sessions does it take to get from Sensational to Elite? How long does it take to get to elite? For one of my slower learners 126 sessions of Punch Technique to get to & maintain Elite++ punches. Not including the 57 Boxing Sparring sessions, 106 Muay Thai sparring sessions, and 129 sessions of clinchwork. That's a total of 418 sessions that's contributed to my Elite++ punches. At 2 sessions a day, it's 209 IRL days of work, not including the Sunday's in between, to get to and maintain Elite++ punches. I also want to add that this fighter was actively fighting and recovering on a consistent basis, every 2-5 weeks. So that's even more days added in between achieving Elite++ punches.

 

With the new system I don't think fast learner changes anything (that shouldn't be changed anyway). They get to the peak much faster than slower learners. That's their incentive. Just like popular fighter get your fighter ranked higher, faster. Fast learners have the opportunity to peak faster. They shouldn't receive anymore of an advantage than that.

 

I'm not sure if I get it right. If I have 0 on elbows and knees and low on something else I can still have Elite on all my other seconderies?

 

Yeah seems like it. There are fighters that are going to end up looking the same regardless, cap or no cap. That is exactly what we'll see with plenty of fighters. Just like we see plenty of fighters spread out across the board in all stats.

 

Fighter retirement just needs to be pushed into the 30's. If your fighter started his career at 18 years old, he should be retiring or declining in a decade or at least 30 and his early 30's (injury hidden should be the key factor in this).

 

 

 

This was actually the 2nd part of my post, but I've decided to post it up top:

 

I know people want variation and have this fantasy complex that no two fighters should ever look alike - which will always happen because it's a game and everybody has an "equal training opportunity" and there will always be fighters stats identical to yours - but I've always thought that people really put too much emphasis on the skill level of stats. I don't see much of a difference between...

 

4 Elite, 4 Sensational, 3 Exceptional [and] 4 Exceptional, 4 Wonderful, 3 Remarkable

 

Fighters will still look the same in the end, no matter what. I guess it'll make the elite seem more elite? The "specialist" concept. But you're still gonna have fighters that look "indentical" on your roster. You're still gonna have fighters that look indentical to your neighbors fighters too.

 

I've always tried to compare it to IRL (not here to argue what IRL fighters stats would look like, just giving examples) and if you disagree with these stats go check out the UFC video games and see how much better they did in analyzing them, they also don't have "primaries":

 

Jon Jones

Boxing: Sensational

Muay Thai: Elite

Wrestling: Elite

BJJ: Sensational

 

Punches: Sensational

Kicks: Sensational

Elbows: Elite

Knees: Sensational

Clinchwork: Elite

Striking Defense: Sensational

Ground n Pound: Elite

Takedown Off: Elite

Takedown Def: Sensational

Submissions: Exceptional

Defensive Grap: Sensational

 

 

GSP

Boxing: Elite

Muay Thai: Sensational

Wrestling: Elite

BJJ: Sensational

 

Punches: Elite

Kicks: Sensational

Elbows: Remarkable

Knees: Strong

Clinchwork: Elite

Striking Defense: Sensational

Ground n Pound: Sensational

Takedown Off: Elite

Takedown Def: Elite

Submissions: Exceptional

Defensive Grap: Elite

 

 

Anderson Silva

Boxing: Elite

Muay Thai: Elite

Wrestling: Wonderful

BJJ: Elite

 

Punches: Elite

Kicks: Elite

Elbows: Elite

Knees: Elite

Clinchwork: Sensational

Striking Defense: Elite

Ground n Pound: Strong

Takedown Off: Strong

Takedown Def: Wonderful

Submissions: Elite

Defensive Grap: Elite

 

Disagree? That's fine, but compare it to the UFC video game's stats or even better, the Created-Fighter (CAF's) people have that are OVR 95-99. For stats - I would consider 80's [elite--] and 90's [elite++] but for the sake of it let's say 90's are elite, 80's sensational, 70's exceptional, etc.

http://www.ufcundisputed.com/fighter/jonjones

http://www.ufcundisputed.com/fighter/andersonsilva

http://www.ufcundisputed.com/fighter/georgesstpierre

 

 

As for the Elite across the board physicals or the Elite/Sensational/Elite/Elite/Elite/Sensational - I can see where that may be a little bit of an issue. I've always considered it the definition of your fighter being in physical peak condition, "the best shape of his life", and physical attributes such as height/weight directly impact this. Lighter fights are faster. Heavier fighters are stronger. I know there's other variables such as reach, KO power, etc. but that's not really the point. I've never understood the big ordeal people made about it. Physicals were the one thing that worked correctly under the ticker program since you needed 2-3 circuits a week to maintain all of them.

 

 

[First part of my post/reply below]

 

I'd also like to know how the leveling below 80% is going to take place. Will it be a percentage across the board or do we get a say in how our fighters are decayed?

 

I'm hesistant to reply to the thread because my opinion is very self-centered and I wanted to read the OP a few more times to make sure I'm grasping everything, but that's something I'm concerned with too. I would like to see the direct impact it'd have on my fighters before it ever happens. I'm not keen on the idea that I'm gonna sign on to find my fighters stats drop significantly across the board when it's taken so long to get there. Elite's turning into Exceptional, Exceptional into Wonderful, etc. I think I'd prolly find the red X at the top right corner and click it as soon as I grasped the stat destruction that's taken almost 3 years to achieve. I don't have any fighter that's Sensational/Elite or (135-150) across the board in every stat though, if I did I could cope with the skill reduction cuz being elite in everything doesn't make any sense - I get that - but I'm not even sure how much this will actually effect me?

 

Here's the percentages of my only 4 fighters that are 80% or above in their secondary department (added all percentages in parenthesis):

80.0% (Physicals 90.5%, Primaries 86.6%, Secondaries 80.0%)

80.3% (Physicals 89.1%, Primaries 83.1%, Secondaries 80.3%)

82.3% (Physicals 93.6%, Primaries 88.7%, Secondaries 82.3%)

82.8% (Physicals 85.9%, Primaries 85.2%, Secondaries 82.8%)

 

Is this 80% a total skill point value based on physicals, primaries, and secondaries combined? Or are you cutting down each catagory to 80%?

 

What exactly happens to these fighters?:

(Physicals 96.6%, Primaries 79.6%, Secondaries 65.1%)

(Physicals 95.3%, Primaries 88.0%, Secondaries 73.5%)

(Physicals 94.5%, Primaries 87.2%, Secondaries 77.2%)

(Physicals 90.0%, Primaries 83.5%, Secondaries 70.4%)

(Physicals 89.0%, Primaries 83.3%, Secondaries 74.1%)

(Physicals 90.5%, Primaries 86.6%, Secondaries 80.0%)

(Physicals 91.4%, Primaries 78.7%, Secondaries 59.2%)

 

It's something I would need to know before I had an opinion on whether this is a good idea or not.

 

 

--------

 

 

Oh, and if you're going to implement this --- please do it at the start of 2013 - January 1st 2013 - and let 2012 ride out under the system it currently is under... or at least give a month's notice in advance. I don't want to have fights scheduled, then suddenly get random stat destruction over night, or have this change implemented and something goes wrong with the fight engine like the early countering into TD's with fighters set to 100% stay standing and 100% FMO bug that happened earlier this year, etc.

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I'm hesistant to reply to the thread because my opinion is very self-centered and I wanted to read the OP a few more times to make sure I'm grasping everything, but that's something I'm concerned with too. I would like to see the direct impact it'd have on my fighters before it ever happens. I'm not keen on the idea that I'm gonna sign on to find my fighters stats drop significantly across the board when it's taken so long to get there. Elite's turning into Exceptional, Exceptional into Wonderful, etc. I think I'd prolly find the red X at the top right corner and click it as soon as I grasped the stat destruction that's taken almost 3 years to achieve. I don't have any fighter that's Sensational/Elite or (135-150) across the board in every stat though, if I did I could cope with the skill reduction cuz being elite in everything doesn't make any sense - I get that - but I'm not even sure how much this will actually effect me?

 

Here's the percentages of my only 4 fighters that are 80% or above in their secondary department (added all percentages in parenthesis):

80.0% (Physicals 90.5%, Primaries 86.6%, Secondaries 80.0%)

80.3% (Physicals 89.1%, Primaries 83.1%, Secondaries 80.3%)

82.3% (Physicals 93.6%, Primaries 88.7%, Secondaries 82.3%)

82.8% (Physicals 85.9%, Primaries 85.2%, Secondaries 82.8%)

 

Is this 80% a total skill point value based on physicals, primaries, and secondaries combined? Or are you cutting down each catagory to 80%?

 

What exactly happens to these fighters?:

(Physicals 96.6%, Primaries 79.6%, Secondaries 65.1%)

(Physicals 95.3%, Primaries 88.0%, Secondaries 73.5%)

(Physicals 94.5%, Primaries 87.2%, Secondaries 77.2%)

(Physicals 90.0%, Primaries 83.5%, Secondaries 70.4%)

(Physicals 89.0%, Primaries 83.3%, Secondaries 74.1%)

(Physicals 90.5%, Primaries 86.6%, Secondaries 80.0%)

(Physicals 91.4%, Primaries 78.7%, Secondaries 59.2%)

 

It's something I would need to know before I had an opinion on whether this is a good idea or not.

 

its 80% of total skills combined --- so say your at 90% -- there is 21 skills it will be a .47% hit across each skill -- or if your at 83% it will be a .14% hit across the board -- so while it sounds bad or major its not really

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its 80% of total skills combined --- so say your at 90% -- there is 21 skills it will be a .47% hit across each skill -- or if your at 83% it will be a .14% hit across the board -- so while it sounds bad or major its not really

So we won't be able to pick what skills we decline in? It will be across the board? I'd rather decline somewhere specific to reach the 80% overall threshold, personal opinion.

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So we won't be able to pick what skills we decline in? It will be across the board? I'd rather decline somewhere specific to reach the 80% overall threshold, personal opinion.

yea will be across the board -- i think it would be very hard and probably impossible to choose cause it would have to be done manually then -- when i asked on it was told it will be across the board

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its 80% of total skills combined --- so say your at 90% -- there is 21 skills it will be a .47% hit across each skill -- or if your at 83% it will be a .14% hit across the board -- so while it sounds bad or major its not really

I don't think that is correct. To get 90% total to 80% total you have to cut EVERY SKILL by 10%.

 

100% -> 90% -> 80%

 

111 ->100 -> 90

111 ->100 -> 90

111 ->100 -> 90

---------

333 ->300 -> 270

 

So lets say you're at 85% total skill points. Your 140 punches will be cut to 133. Your 109 clinch work will be cut to 103.5. Your 26 elbows will be cut to 24.7. Etc.

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i like the original proposal i am guessing that the 'elders' of this game in the next few days will have some interesting concepts and thoughts on it so i would make sure to check some of their ideas out on how to make the ticker situation as pleasing as possible

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i like the original proposal i am guessing that the 'elders' of this game in the next few days will have some interesting concepts and thoughts on it so i would make sure to check some of their ideas out on how to make the ticker situation as pleasing as possible

I have a feeling the "elders" of this game will be doing more than posing some interesting concepts. They'll basically be going on strike and making all kinds of threats. This is a proposal to chop points off of fighters OVERNIGHT. That's not easy for the top guys to swallow.

 

I don't blame them....but I think I'm ok with it in the long run. Just my personal opinion. I don't blame any of the top guys for disagreeing with me.

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I don't think that is correct. To get 90% total to 80% total you have to cut EVERY SKILL by 10%.

 

100% -> 90% -> 80%

 

111 ->100 -> 90

111 ->100 -> 90

111 ->100 -> 90

---------

333 ->300 -> 270

 

So lets say you're at 85% total skill points. Your 140 punches will be cut to 133. Your 109 clinch work will be cut to 103.5. Your 26 elbows will be cut to 24.7. Etc.

maybe i looked at it wrong but was just looking at cutting say 10% of the overall skills -- but its still not bad even at your math (which ever way is correct) -- and knowing it across the board for every fighter (except new builds) -- cause this cut i think will be done on an average even to guys below the 80% so its evened out and not just guys above taking hit -- as far as i took it, it will be done to guys below 80 also down to a certain point -- so its not like a gap will be lost automatically

 

this was an explanation of it below -- its gonna be a sliding scale for all fighters not just fighters above 80%

So if we put the cap at 82%, we drop the best guy to 82% and change the other fighters accordingly, to keep a fair sliding scale level of difference.

 

If we knocked that guy down e.g. 100 points, the guy under that might get knocked down 99.9%, down to the worst guy in teh game who wouldn't get knocked down at all... or at X level of skill, you'd not get knocked down at all.

I would like to bring down the top guy to 80% and reduce the other fighters' skills by less and less as you go down the total skills. We could pick a point below which no decrease would occur, e.g. 50% / 75 points, then work down as follows (numbers are rounded up / down a bit).

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sure i see what your saying but they have already been taken down and beat high level bjj fighters -- the ground doesnt work the same as stand up in that you need kicks to defend kicks and clinchwork to defend getting clinch raped -- ground defense all you need is grappling d and takedown d -- dont need subs or gnp to defend like you need to defend in stand up

 

im sure there are examples of both though cause hiddens come into play a lot but the gap for ground dominance and stand up dominance is way farther apart -- a wonderful boxing / wonderful m/t has a small chance against elite boxer / elite m/t -- but a wonderful wrestler / bjj has a much better chance against a elite wrestler / bjj fighter

 

Imo thats a problem that needs to be fixed. Not a problem with this proposal. some numbers tweaking is all that is needed.

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I have a feeling the "elders" of this game will be doing more than posing some interesting concepts. They'll basically be going on strike and making all kinds of threats. This is a proposal to chop points off of fighters OVERNIGHT. That's not easy for the top guys to swallow.

 

I don't blame them....but I think I'm ok with it in the long run. Just my personal opinion. I don't blame any of the top guys for disagreeing with me.

 

 

I just don't feel I have 1 fighter on my roster who's stats are "unrealistic" or "impossible" and don't see any reason they should lose ANY skill points. Primaries are just primaries. Fog of war. I don't have one fighter on my roster that has 11 elite/sensational/exceptional secondaries. Nor do I have 1 fighter on my roster that has 11 Elite/Sensational/Exceptional/Wonderful/Remarkable secondaries. That's why I'd want a direct answer or view of the result/impact it was gonna have on my fighters before I decided if I like this idea or not.

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