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I didnt say he was ducking anyone. Bust just about everyone else is. IF the promoter or the Showtime/HBO, or the governing bodies hold fighters back. There have been many cases of its olways going on, where a fighter cant get fights or they are given bad fights to get them knocked off to protect someone else. Its all politics. The truth of the matter is It would very very easy for anyone with average skill to run off a ton of wins if they dont jump at a big money fight. Dewey Cooper has had a great boxing career so far and so did Matt Skelton. How far you go in boxing depends on how soon you try to be champ. Santos would never be a champion. BUt he could easly run off a great recor and get into some rankings. Many fruad boxers have do so in the past and only got exposed when they were called on for a big money fight to pad a big names record.

 

Neither would be legit top 20 if they crossed over. They could only be false hyped to that sport. IF Klits signed in the UFC and beat 1 bum most would rank him above every other non UFC fighter just based apon being in the UFC. There are guys in the UFC who would lose to hundreds of guys out of the UFC. But he would never be close to the 20th best HW. Santos would never be close to the 20th best HW boxer. They could only APPEAR to be top 20.

 

Dude come on I asked who would be better raned not who would have better record now you also can fight i some weird organizations and have good records that doest matter Klicko is nr1 ranekd not because of his record but what competition he is fighting. Those 2 guys who you mentioned are very low ranked and are fightng only bums. Trust me you can be more acomplished if you join from boxing to mma then from mma to boxing.

 

And yes sure that guy who is figting and winning in UFC will be better ranked even some one could win him out of UFC because ranks are made not by records but about who you have beat and ofcourse you will get more credit from beating guys in UFC because that is dominat organization and have better quality of fighters. Some one maybe can even beat JDS out of UFC but what doest it mean? Nothing it doest increase his rank ! It only can be increased when he actually does it.

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Santos. Because in boxing he can pick his own fights and run off 30 wins. Kilts in MMA would get beat early and often.

I'm not sure. If it was any other division that answer would be clear as day. The UFC heavyweight division relies on NFL dropouts to switch to MMA. It wouldn't be too had to imagine one of the Klitschko's having some kind of success. If they weren't over 40 already. Also the Klitschko's aren't ducking. There's just nobody out there to fight them.

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Every havet been beat recently ! Anderson have been beat for like 10years or so thats why MW division is called if you take Anderson out of that divison it would be the same as 205 few years a go where everyone would be a start because ther would be like 7 champions. 205 was the most talanted divison before JJ started to dominate so what changed? Other fighter talant dropped or just JJ is on other level?

 

 

People get old. You cant have Tito Ortiz and the gang fight for ever. It takes a logn time to bring in new blood who is good and built them into draws. You cant just kick out every old guys who sells teckets and replace them with young people even if they are better fighters at that point. Its a slow process. Look at the fighters out there todays who honestly might not even be good enough for the UFC but are still there. Wandy Silva for example. He should be gone but they keep himm around because he is a draw. So he gets other old guys to fight. Hell he cant even fight the Chris Lebens of the world. Anyone who puts him in the top 50 just doesnt know enough fighters outside the UFC. Im a big fan of Franklin but at this point there are tons of guys who would beat him. They have to have hand pick fights to stay in the UFC.

 

The Middle weight division died long ago. Bustmante left and the UFC booted Lindland. The 185 division didnt even have a champion for 3 years. When they finally brought it back the champs were looked at as paper champs because they didnt beat anyone and there was no one to beat. Even when Franklin was champ they claimed he was protected. There was no fame in fighting at 185. The champ wasnt respected and the belt didnt do anything for anyone. So all the talent piled into 170 and 205. Silva has brought some fame and credibility back to the division. BUt it will still take a while before the talent rises up the division. It has already started a little with Weidman. I believe he will beat Silva. BUt it takes 3+ years for a guy to really earn a title shot once he gets to the UFC. As bigof a streak Jones was on it took an injury for him to get his shot 3 years after his first UFC fight.

 

It doesnt help that the UFC has ran Hendo and Franklin out of the division and now Chael. There is no one legit to fight for anyone to prove themselves against. There is no one to fight where we cant say "this guy is legit". So we dont know who is a legit title contender and who isnt. If Weidman can beat a Chael, Hendo, or Franklin he would be a lock and a threat for the title. But instead it is a foot race where 5 guys see who can beat the most bums. There has never been a division that has been striped down like 185 has.

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I'm not sure. If it was any other division that answer would be clear as day. The UFC heavyweight division relies on NFL dropouts to switch to MMA. It wouldn't be too had to imagine one of the Klitschko's having some kind of success. If they weren't over 40 already. Also the Klitschko's aren't ducking. There's just nobody out there to fight them.

 

Sure now Klickos would loose fast there :) I was talking if they would start their sport carer not with boxing but with MMA.

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People get old. You cant have Tito Ortiz and the gang fight for ever. It takes a logn time to bring in new blood who is good and built them into draws. You cant just kick out every old guys who sells teckets and replace them with young people even if they are better fighters at that point. Its a slow process. Look at the fighters out there todays who honestly might not even be good enough for the UFC but are still there. Wandy Silva for example. He should be gone but they keep himm around because he is a draw. So he gets other old guys to fight. Hell he cant even fight the Chris Lebens of the world. Anyone who puts him in the top 50 just doesnt know enough fighters outside the UFC. Im a big fan of Franklin but at this point there are tons of guys who would beat him. They have to have hand pick fights to stay in the UFC.

 

The Middle weight division died long ago. Bustmante left and the UFC booted Lindland. The 185 division didnt even have a champion for 3 years. When they finally brought it back the champs were looked at as paper champs because they didnt beat anyone and there was no one to beat. Even when Franklin was champ they claimed he was protected. There was no fame in fighting at 185. The champ wasnt respected and the belt didnt do anything for anyone. So all the talent piled into 170 and 205. Silva has brought some fame and credibility back to the division. BUt it will still take a while before the talent rises up the division. It has already started a little with Weidman. I believe he will beat Silva. BUt it takes 3+ years for a guy to really earn a title shot once he gets to the UFC. As bigof a streak Jones was on it took an injury for him to get his shot 3 years after his first UFC fight.

 

It doesnt help that the UFC has ran Hendo and Franklin out of the division and now Chael. There is no one legit to fight for anyone to prove themselves against. There is no one to fight where we cant say "this guy is legit". So we dont know who is a legit title contender and who isnt. If Weidman can beat a Chael, Hendo, or Franklin he would be a lock and a threat for the title. But instead it is a foot race where 5 guys see who can beat the most bums. There has never been a division that has been striped down like 185 has.

 

Ok yes thet keep Wanderlei because he can sell ticktets cant argue with that.

 

 

It doest help the UFC of course but what else they can do? Make Anderon fight these guy for 5 times each? And Weidman will never win Anderson ( but thats just my oppinion please dont start this and that ) and I actually think next tittle countender should be Bisping if he wins Stann of course.

 

And the problem with UFC MW divison was that all the big names just where in PRIDE but when it colapsed they all came to UFC and Anderson of course beat them all.

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I'm not sure. If it was any other division that answer would be clear as day. The UFC heavyweight division relies on NFL dropouts to switch to MMA. It wouldn't be too had to imagine one of the Klitschko's having some kind of success. If they weren't over 40 already. Also the Klitschko's aren't ducking. There's just nobody out there to fight them.

 

 

I agree to a point. The UFC can make a NFL frop out a champ because they control the match making. When they didnt have a draw they designed a path for Brock to be champ. When they had other marketable young fighters and Brock was injured all he time. They just as easily destroyed him. They could have easily got him wins and kept him around like they do many other old guys who are big draws. BUt he was always a risk to quit after a loss so they cashed in and threw him right back in with Reem.

 

But that goes back to what i was saying. Yes Klits if he was in the UFC could get a top 20 ranking if the UFC allowed it. But he would never really be a top 20 fighter. Like Mark Hunt for example. The guy just lost 6 streight fights and all in the first round. Most of the inthe first minute. I would bet there are hundreds of guys out of the UFC who would beat him also because his ground game and wrestling are so bad. BUt he runs off 3 wins verses inconsistant gate keepers and Sherdog has him ranked 14th. If he would have beat those same guys outside the UFC he would be ranked just inside the top 100. But most people can only name 20 Heavy Weights to begin with. So anyone who gets a win gets ranked. It doesnt mean Hunt is the 14th best fighter in the world or there are only 14 people who can beat him. It means nothing until the UFC use him and his top 20 ranking to pad someones record.

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I agree to a point. The UFC can make a NFL frop out a champ because they control the match making. When they didnt have a draw they designed a path for Brock to be champ. When they had other marketable young fighters and Brock was injured all he time. They just as easily destroyed him. They could have easily got him wins and kept him around like they do many other old guys who are big draws. BUt he was always a risk to quit after a loss so they cashed in and threw him right back in with Reem.

 

But that goes back to what i was saying. Yes Klits if he was in the UFC could get a top 20 ranking if the UFC allowed it. But he would never really be a top 20 fighter. Like Mark Hunt for example. The guy just lost 6 streight fights and all in the first round. Most of the inthe first minute. I would bet there are hundreds of guys out of the UFC who would beat him also because his ground game and wrestling are so bad. BUt he runs off 3 wins verses inconsistant gate keepers and Sherdog has him ranked 14th. If he would have beat those same guys outside the UFC he would be ranked just inside the top 100. But most people can only name 20 Heavy Weights to begin with. So anyone who gets a win gets ranked. It doesnt mean Hunt is the 14th best fighter in the world or there are only 14 people who can beat him. It means nothing until the UFC use him and his top 20 ranking to pad someones record.

 

 

Have to say Mark won Kongo and Rothwell its not like he is fighting bums.

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Ok yes thet keep Wanderlei because he can sell ticktets cant argue with that.

 

 

It doest help the UFC of course but what else they can do? Make Anderon fight these guy for 5 times each? And Weidman will never win Anderson ( but thats just my oppinion please dont start this and that ) and I actually think next tittle countender should be Bisping if he wins Stann of course.

 

And the problem with UFC MW divison was that all the big names just where in PRIDE but when it colapsed they all came to UFC and Anderson of course beat them all.

 

 

They were big names but they wasnt any better than what the UFC had. When Pride fighters come over they were all old. When they fought the UFC fighters like Franklin. It showed the UFC guys were just as good as Prides were. Franklin beat Wandy and basically fought Hendo to a draw.

 

But a healthy division has to have a steady flow of new blood. Fans complain when they noobs are on a a card but it is required to create and maintain a high level of talent. But there has to be a proper balance of old names to fill the seats. But with so many divisions its hard to keep that balance. 135, 145, 155, have no names just talent. So the division is wide open. 170 imo right now has the perfect balance. Handful of legti contenders, some old names, and some potential. It hasnt been that way ever before. 185 has neither. The names have been pushed out and there has been no talent brought in. 205 is getting to be balance with its big names and Gustaffson coming up. It needs anothe prospect or two though.

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Have to say Mark won Kongo and Rothwell its not like he is fighting bums.

 

 

Not the point. They have never beat anyone. Rothwell has a 500 record in the UFC and neither can consistantly beat the guys they are supposed to beat and they lose to anyone decent. Hunt didnt exactly beat Rothwell. It was a raqzor close fight that both looked like complete turds. His only impressive fight is when he got a suspect chin striker he was taylor made for with Kongo. Lets not forget he lost 6 fights in a row and was finished each time. No one should be able to lose 6 fights in a row and be ranked with 3 fights. He lost to Sean McCorkle in 1 minute who has a 16-3 record. Why isnt he above Hunt? Clearly he can easily beat him. Rankings dont mean anything.

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Not the point. They have never beat anyone. Rothwell has a 500 record in the UFC and neither can consistantly beat the guys they are supposed to beat and they lose to anyone decent. Hunt didnt exactly beat Rothwell. It was a raqzor close fight that both looked like complete turds. His only impressive fight is when he got a suspect chin striker he was taylor made for with Kongo. Lets not forget he lost 6 fights in a row and was finished each time. No one should be able to lose 6 fights in a row and be ranked with 3 fights. He lost to Sean McCorkle in 1 minute who has a 16-3 record. Why isnt he above Hunt? Clearly he can easily beat him. Rankings dont mean anything.

 

Dude are you crazy ? :D

 

Kongo is 11-5 in UFC and he havent beat any one? And of course you can loose 6 in a row and then win 3 in a row and be high ranked lol its all about who have you beat in those 3 fights/

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Dude are you crazy ? :D

 

Kongo is 11-5 in UFC and he havent beat any one? And of course you can loose 6 in a row and then win 3 in a row and be high ranked lol its all about who have you beat in those 3 fights/

 

 

And thats why rankings are a joke and have no meaning. Just like when people had Sudokujew and Houston Alexander in their top 5. They were bums who got lucky. I can get Hunt beat out of the UFC with Amateur MMA fighters. That really sounds like a top 15 fighter to me lol. Who did Kongo ever beat? Now i dont mind him being ranked at one point because he ran off enough decent wins to have some mementum going. But he wasnt to the point where beating him and him alone is enough to get you moved up the rankings that high when you have lost 6 fights. HUnt is 3-6 in his last nine fights and people act like he is a title contender.

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Come on now. Rogers was a tire change at Wal Mart and was just a big guy. I have always felt Overeem was overrated. When he was small he seem sto be decently skilled but lacked "hiddens" or intangibles. BUt as he got bigger his skill went to crap and he just plowed through people with power.

 

As for his chin there were many signs of his chin being bad. Now i dont bean it is the worst ever but hell even the worst chins dont get KO'ed every fight. But Overeems is well below the average fighters. Wether he goes down easier or just gets hit hard or more often who knows. BUt the end result is he has been knocked out a lot and a very high percentage of his loss' for someone at the level he should be at. In fact he left K-1 the first time early in his career when he was KO'ed 2 fights in a row. Then went to MMA and was KO'ed by Bobby Hoffman, Shogun 2 times, Sergei Kharitonov, and Chuck Liddell. He was also stopped by strikes 2 other times by Lil Nog and Arona. In His few K-1 fights he was dropped by Bonjawski with a left hook who if i remember correctly hasnt KO'ed anyone with his hands in his last 50 fights. Hari KO'ed him in their rematch. When he won the GP he beat no one to do it. Aerts is so far past his prime it is a joke.

 

Overeem winning the GP the way he did was like Steve Jennum winning UFC 3. Yeah they won technically but still meaningless. Not to mention K-1 is a farce anyway. At one time it was the worlds best strikers IMO. BUt that was 8-10 years ago and they still have the same guys fighting. Even on a good year winning the K-1 GP doesnt mean much. Even at its peak there was MMA fighters Knocking out K-1 guys in K-1. I would say now the striking of MMA fighters is almost Even with K-1 now. The skills of the K-1 guys are not bad. BUt they have no athletes anymore. They cant find new talent and they have the same old people fighting. I think there is a lot of MMA guys who would raise some hell verses todays K-1 guys and do it the way MMA fighters have always done to K-1 guys and do it with pure power and ability. Dos Santos would smash half the K-1 Guys in K-1 rules without throwing a single kick.

 

It really bothers me to see people throw out the "World Class striker" label because someone fought in K-1. People said the same thing about Kid Yammamoto because he won a fight or two there. Well so did Tom Erickson, Rampage Jackson, Gary Goodrich, and many others. Coming in brawling and landing a KO under the K-1 rules doesnt make you a world class striker. K-1 uses rules and rounds to encourage a Toughman contest like atmosphere. Everyone is forced to come out banging because the short time limits and rounds doesnt give you time to play defense. So the nature of the rules cause everyone to be at high risk of getting knocked out by any big agressive puncher. Like when Cro Cop fights and Rogan calls him a world class striker. He hasnt been even close to world class striker in 10 years. You have to time his left high kick with a calender. You are either world class or your not. Overeem has never been that. He was never consistant under K-1 banner and his claim to fame was catching Hari who later avenged the loss and getting a decision, and getting a injured fighter in the second round and a 40 year old Aerts in the finals.

 

Bob Sapp did more in K-1 than Overeem did lol.

 

I'm an Overeem fan, but I have to agree with everything you said here. Just don't tell anyone I said that.

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I said the average competitor and I admitted that they were more skilled, but they weren't as big. Aerts is a freak of nature. Back in the day Aerts lost a lot of fights though because of a huge size disadvantage and injury problems. He certainly wasn't as agile in his later years, but he fought a lot smarter and was a lot bigger.

 

Aerts beat Schilt the first time he fought him too, and he didn't really get much bigger in his later years -- in 2010 he wasn't much different to in 2002. Aerts always had the formula to beat Schilt with his style of fighting, angles, low kicks, combinations -- even Sefo (who was 6', never really a top guy and somewhat past his peak) had some success with Schilt using that strategy.

 

 

Andy Hug is another great fighter, but also relatively small compared to the fighters now. Bernardo always had difficulties against fighters who he didn't have a size advantage on. And Hoost always had trouble against bigger fighters as well. There's just no way any of those guys could've dealt with the size of a Semmy Schilt. LeBanner was good, but I don't think he was better than any of the fighters that I mentioned. And Greco...

 

Hoost rarely had issues with size (nor did Bernardo if it comes to that.. but he was usually the biggest guy in the ring). Fact is, Ignashov brutalised both Hari and Schilt (who are the top 2 of the 'modern' era) -- and Ignashov wasn't all that good, even before his knee turned to shit. Le Banner in 2006 was still better than Bonjasky (and in 2010 he was still better than Spong lol).

 

 

Spong fucked up against Corbett, but it's not like that's a big shame. He probably has the biggest balls of any fighter out there. The guy fought at 170 two years before he moved to the big boys in K-1.

 

Spong fucked up repeatedly against Corbett; not taking the fight under full Thai rules (despite allegedly being a Muay Thai fighter), getting knocked the fuck out, standing up on the 10 count and acting like he hadn't been counted out (causing Corbett to slug him again), and avoiding a rematch like the plague.

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its intresting that JDS will only KO overeem but Carwin will slap him in to unconcisioness when we all know that JDS almost put parkinson decease on Carwin.

 

 

Carwin punches harder then JDS, he's one of the hardest punchers, if not the hardest at HW. JDS is just a much more technically sound, quicker fighter, and he lit up Carwin's chin.... but unlike Brock, and Overeem, he hung in there, fought it out, and went to a decision with a man that's knockin everything he hits down.

 

 

Overeem will get his block knocked off by Carwin, and JDS will send his mouth piece flyin as well.

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And thats why rankings are a joke and have no meaning. Just like when people had Sudokujew and Houston Alexander in their top 5. They were bums who got lucky. I can get Hunt beat out of the UFC with Amateur MMA fighters. That really sounds like a top 15 fighter to me lol. Who did Kongo ever beat? Now i dont mind him being ranked at one point because he ran off enough decent wins to have some mementum going. But he wasnt to the point where beating him and him alone is enough to get you moved up the rankings that high when you have lost 6 fights. HUnt is 3-6 in his last nine fights and people act like he is a title contender.

 

Who he have beat? You can see it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheick_Kongo and I dont know who are these weird amature MMA fighter you have there who doest fight but can beat anyone but i douth that a lot of them can beat Kongo and that is not even worth to argue about thats like saying i know few guy who run faster than Usain Bolt but why the fuck then they dont go and actually do it?

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Carwin punches harder then JDS, he's one of the hardest punchers, if not the hardest at HW. JDS is just a much more technically sound, quicker fighter, and he lit up Carwin's chin.... but unlike Brock, and Overeem, he hung in there, fought it out, and went to a decision with a man that's knockin everything he hits down.

 

 

Overeem will get his block knocked off by Carwin, and JDS will send his mouth piece flyin as well.

 

sure Carwin could not KO Brock but he will do that to K1 champion? :D

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sure Carwin could not KO Brock but he will do that to K1 champion? :D

 

lol at Overeem being in the same class as any other K-1 champion.

 

He won a badly depleted tournament (no Bonjasky or Hari -- 2 of the top 3 gone before it even started, and both of them had beaten Overeem) by defeating the worst fighter in the final 8 (Spong), a guy who had a broken arm before entering the ring (Saki), and Aerts who had burned through everything he had fighting Schilt.

 

 

P.s. Carwin couldn't KO Brock because Lesnar has a concrete jaw (say what you will about how he responded to getting hit, but shots to the head never seemed to rock him at all) and went turtle mode until Carwin got tired.

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lol at Overeem being in the same class as any other K-1 champion.

 

He won a badly depleted tournament (no Bonjasky or Hari -- 2 of the top 3 gone before it even started, and both of them had beaten Overeem) by defeating the worst fighter in the final 8 (Spong), a guy who had a broken arm before entering the ring (Saki), and Aerts who had burned through everything he had fighting Schilt.

 

 

P.s. Carwin couldn't KO Brock because Lesnar has a concrete jaw (say what you will about how he responded to getting hit, but shots to the head never seemed to rock him at all) and went turtle mode until Carwin got tired.

 

omg these matematics :D and both of them lost to Semmy so why the fuck he lost to Aerts?

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omg these matematics :D and both of them lost to Semmy so why the fuck he lost to Aerts?

 

It's almost as if fighters all have different styles, strengths, weaknesses, and that performance isn't 100% consistent! What a wild theory, sir.

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Aerts beat Schilt the first time he fought him too, and he didn't really get much bigger in his later years -- in 2010 he wasn't much different to in 2002. Aerts always had the formula to beat Schilt with his style of fighting, angles, low kicks, combinations -- even Sefo (who was 6', never really a top guy and somewhat past his peak) had some success with Schilt using that strategy.

BrainSmasher was arguing that K-1 was worse than in the 90's. Aerts was a lot bigger in 2002 than in the early 90's and that was one of Semmy's first K-1 fights that you're talking about. Not to mention that those years 2001-2004 were probably the weakest years.

 

 

Fact is, Ignashov brutalised both Hari and Schilt (who are the top 2 of the 'modern' era) -- and Ignashov wasn't all that good, even before his knee turned to shit. Le Banner in 2006 was still better than Bonjasky (and in 2010 he was still better than Spong lol).

This is a big load of bullshit. Badri Hari was 18 (!!!) years old and 30 pounds lighter when he fought Ignashov. And when Semmy fought him it was one of his first fights in K-1. And I know that if you had seen Spong's fight against Le Banner you would've known that Le Banner shouldn't at all have won that fight against Spong, who at the time could've been as much as 40 lbs lighter than him. Le Banner was never better than Bonjaski except for that one night. No decent man would argue differently. He won a fight once against a better fighter. As he did when he won against Hoost and Aerts. That's it.

 

 

 

Spong fucked up repeatedly against Corbett; not taking the fight under full Thai rules (despite allegedly being a Muay Thai fighter), getting knocked the fuck out, standing up on the 10 count and acting like he hadn't been counted out (causing Corbett to slug him again), and avoiding a rematch like the plague.

I don't know what your standards are, but in my book it's good when a fighter tries to beat the count. He didn't act like the referee didn't waive the fight off. He didn't know where the fuck he was. Corbett was the one who acted like the referee didn't waive off the fight, which was partially the refs fault.

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lol at Overeem being in the same class as any other K-1 champion.

 

He won a badly depleted tournament (no Bonjasky or Hari -- 2 of the top 3 gone before it even started, and both of them had beaten Overeem) by defeating the worst fighter in the final 8 (Spong), a guy who had a broken arm before entering the ring (Saki), and Aerts who had burned through everything he had fighting Schilt

I agree with that (except for Spong being the worst fighter of course), but that has always been a factor in tournaments. Hoost and Hunt won championships like this as well. And those were in a lot weaker years.

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Complete and utter bullshit, Pride brought in tons of guys in after 2001 who got to fight the top guys in the division -- I'd argue they signed better fighters between 2002-2006 than the UFC did.. some examples

 

HW: Werdum (2005), Kharitonov (2003), Hunt (2004), Barnett (2004), Fedor (2002), Aleks (2003)

LHW: Shogun (2003), Nakamura (2003), Diet Nog (2002), Sokoudjou (2007), Overeem (2002), Yoshida (2003)

 

I'll ignore the fact they built 2 more divisions (LW and MW) after 2001, not to mention the countless guys who came in and didn't make it to the top.

 

 

 

 

 

Almost forgot about this. You dont get off the hook that easy lol.

 

Yes it was 2003 rather than 2001. MY mistake. But the fact remains. They didnt bring anyone in. They started in 1997 and they kept the same guys and only in 2003 did they bring in new fighters to fill the cards for Bushido. BUshido was the ONLY reason they brought in any fighters which ran its first event in 2003. I find it strange you included Sudokuju. He was a bum and was brought in as a feeder. Unfortunately for Pride their fighters had become past their prime and complacent. So this bum was able to beat two of their best fighters. He was 2-1 going in to Pride. NOt exactly a prospect. Not more than Jonnie Morton was for K-1. In fact after those 2 fights in Pride he is 8-9 in his career mostly in the minor leagues. Pride never brought i talented fighters regularly. They always had a bum they pulled from no where to fight a circus fight. BUt never a constant flow of prospects or talented fighters.

 

The UFC has always brought in the best fighters they can find. Now the nature of new fighters is they dont appear to be big name like Pride had. But it is the only way that you cant honestly have the best fighters in the world at any given time. You have to make it possible for the best to get in and prove themselves. The UFC did and Pride didnt. Pride had an egenda to put on a show not a sport or compeititon. So they kepts the same fighters they spent money to build like it was WWE. They also limited the number of wrestlers allowed to fight in Pride to keep the entertainment value rather than the integrity of the sport to see who the best fighter was.

 

Just because you dont want to believe it doesnt make it any less true. IF the UFC had the same agenda they could lock out the talent and allow Chuck Liddell to knock out Tito and Randy every other week and fill every arena and sell 700K PPV buys every time and not worry about having to build Jon Jones or Dos Santos of the world. But if they did. One day someone would get out of the bubble or the fighters would leave the bubble and fight outside talent that hasnt been feasting on Has-Beens. We saw what happened when Sudokuju got in Pride. We saw what happened when Pride fighters come to the UFC. Only a few were successful. A couple others were protected so the 65 million the UFC spent wasnt a total waste. But 90% of the fighters everyone has hyped couldnt buy a win. Hell most of the Pride fan base thought Heath Herring was going to OWN the UFC. When he failed they put their hopes in Cro Cop. Of course they were shocked and couldnt believe they lost. But like Fred Ettish, they were never going to doubt what they spent the last 10 years of their life following. So rather than admit the flaws of the Pride was of doing things. They convienced themselves that all the Pride fighters just got old over night. Of course it wasnt the UFC fighters were younger and better than they give them credit for or the Pride fighters had been past their prime all along if they ever had one.

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The UFC has always brought in the best fighters they can find. Now the nature of new fighters is they dont appear to be big name like Pride had. But it is the only way that you cant honestly have the best fighters in the world at any given time. You have to make it possible for the best to get in and prove themselves. The UFC did and Pride didnt. Pride had an egenda to put on a show not a sport or compeititon. So they kepts the same fighters they spent money to build like it was WWE. They also limited the number of wrestlers allowed to fight in Pride to keep the entertainment value rather than the integrity of the sport to see who the best fighter was.

 

Lets take a quick examination of 2003-2005 (seeing as Pride basically keeled over mid-2006).

 

 

UFC Signings at worth mentioning

 

HW: Gonzaga (aka the weaker of the two Brazilian BJJ guys -- the stronger being Werdum who Pride signed), literally nobody else worth mentioning.

LHW: Nobody at all worth mentioning, unless the cans who were on TUF 1 make you hard or something.

 

And yes, Pride cared about putting on a show and doing good business -- so does the UFC, that's why Velasquez got a title shot before Dos Santos, that's why Faber and Couture kept getting gift title shots, that's why Griffin still has a job, that's why McKee got cut after one split decision loss while Stevenson got umpteen chances, that's why they brought fuckin Tito Ortiz back lol. Not faulting them for it either, as a promotion it is more parts business than sport to them.

 

 

 

omg these matematics :D and both of them lost to Semmy so why the fuck he lost to Aerts?

 

Aerts always had the blueprint to beat Semmy.

 

 

 

BrainSmasher was arguing that K-1 was worse than in the 90's. Aerts was a lot bigger in 2002 than in the early 90's and that was one of Semmy's first K-1 fights that you're talking about. Not to mention that those years 2001-2004 were probably the weakest years.

 

Semmy has a ton of Karate bouts too which aren't on his Kickboxing record -- lots of guys with competitive Karate backgrounds get dropped into the deep end and do pretty well (Fihlo, Hug, Teixeira)- many of whom fought much tougher guys early on than Ignashov and managed not to get their shit pushed in. This being said, Schilt may be the sole exception to the assertion that K-1 got worse instead of better from 2000-2010.

 

 

This is a big load of bullshit. Badri Hari was 18 (!!!) years old and 30 pounds lighter when he fought Ignashov. And when Semmy fought him it was one of his first fights in K-1. And I know that if you had seen Spong's fight against Le Banner you would've known that Le Banner shouldn't at all have won that fight against Spong, who at the time could've been as much as 40 lbs lighter than him. Le Banner was never better than Bonjaski except for that one night. No decent man would argue differently. He won a fight once against a better fighter. As he did when he won against Hoost and Aerts. That's it.

 

Hari got a bit bigger, but his skill set was absolutely no different and his style never changed - he never developed any kind of defence whatsoever - there's a reason Graham, Leko and Karaev all knocked him out.

 

Ignoring the fact that post-2002 Le Banner was way past it and still beat those guys (also, maybe if Spong hadn't walked into a punch and done the chicken dance against Jerome he might have won).

 

Le Banner has worse records against Hoost and Aerts, when he was in his prime, than against Bonjasky and Spong when he was past it.

 

 

I don't know what your standards are, but in my book it's good when a fighter tries to beat the count. He didn't act like the referee didn't waive the fight off. He didn't know where the fuck he was. Corbett was the one who acted like the referee didn't waive off the fight, which was partially the refs fault.

 

Spong got a 15 count in that fight because the ref fucked around ordering Corbett back to his corner, he still didn't make it.

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You mean we shouldn't count the TUF guys when Forrest beat Rua and Jackson? Yeah no reason to count them especially since there were pretty good additions and another example of the UFC bring in Talent. There were others too but some got beat out by even newer talent which is what happens when you keep bringing then in rather they stay with stale fighters. So Gonzaga who smashed Cro Cop went on to lose to Shaub and Santos which lowered his stock.

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