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a note to mike tycoon


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So right now, the game advances 1 year every 12 weeks in real life. If I understand correctly, what Chris is proposing is to change that to 1 in-game year happens every 8 weeks in real life. In this model, an 18 year old build would be 24 after a real life year, going on 25 (instead of 22 going on 23 like currently). 32 after 2 years (instead of 27). 38 after 3 years, going on 39 (instead of 31 going on 32), etc. This would not only speed up the training gains, it would also make skill maintenance more difficult as tickers would advance more rapidly.

 

Anything that increases learning speed, increases skill degradation, and shortens a fighter's career length in real life time is a win in my opinion.

 

 

I think it's essential to bringing in new members too, not only them seeing progress, but if they see the fighters at the top finally retiring at some point, it might give them inspiration that their new guy might be the next Fidel Puno or one day replace the Golden Glory of the p4p ranks.

 

 

4 IRL years for your "Randy Couture", "Sakuraba", "Fedor", "Chuck Liddell", "Mark Coleman", "Matt Hughes", "Rich Franklin", "Phil Baroni", etc. seems like a long time.

 

Seriously gotta ask yourself how long is a fighter supposed to last? People can graduate college in 4 years, graduate H.S. in 4 years, hell in the past 3 years I've lived in 6-7 different houses. How many relationships have people gone through in this amount of time? How many pets? Cars? 4 IRL years is A LOT of time.

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I think everybody forgot why the lower level gains was put in because everybody was afraid of all the fighters becoming quad elite/sensational. I think the only conflict was when the lower level gains got nerfed it also affected the guys who were in public gyms. Although 3v1 became a viable option for training, the lower level gain nerf made it useless.

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The game was designed so that you build you fighters up as they age it's meant to take some time... With what your suggesting Mike may as well do away with training and go here everyone have 2800 skill points distribute them and fight... Hey lets not worry about training, lets just skip that whole section of the game... As I said your idea's for improvements are self serving, try thinking about the game as a whole and not what works best for Chris Karter and his stable of fighters... There are plenty of other managers who have said exactly the same thing about tickers... They need to be reverted back to the original setting otherwise they are pointless.

 

Nobody's 26yo fighter should be sensational/sensational/sensational/brown with matching physicals and secondaries... If tickers worked as they should then you wouldn't have the issue. Once you start bringing the overall skill levels of fighters down a then newer fighters can actually reach similar levels.

 

 

 

 

I want to point out that Jon Jones is 24 years old.

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I think everybody forgot why the lower level gains was put in because everybody was afraid of all the fighters becoming quad elite/sensational. I think the only conflict was when the lower level gains got nerfed it also affected the guys who were in public gyms. Although 3v1 became a viable option for training, the lower level gain nerf made it useless.

Really? I thought tickers were the thing introduced to prevent fighters from becoming quad elite/sensational (slower lower level gains with faster /which was the actual change/ do nothing to prevent it). Since tickers do nothing, it didnt happen. The change in learning speed distribution over skill level does absolutely nothing to quad sens thing, just sparring nerf does something - prevent newer fighters to reach the high levels as fast as the older fighters did.

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Really? I thought tickers were the thing introduced to prevent fighters from becoming quad elite/sensational (slower lower level gains with faster /which was the actual change/ do nothing to prevent it). Since tickers do nothing, it didnt happen. The change in learning speed distribution over skill level does absolutely nothing to quad sens thing, just sparring nerf does something - prevent newer fighters to reach the high levels as fast as the older fighters did.

I was thinking of the new creations. Not the established fighters. :P

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I was thinking of the new creations. Not the established fighters. :P

New creation is just an established fighter to be - you dont need two systems for those, by definition.

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They won't be on the same playing field... New players don't have access to 1v1 gyms... they train in shitty public gyms all speeding up training will do is widen the gap between those that have private gyms and those that don't... How can you not see that?? Large class sizes regardless of the speed of training still gives shits results, so again you aren't thinking of the game as a whole, your view is short sighted.

 

Before trainings changes

5v1 coached sessions = fuck all gains <-- New players

1v1 coached sessions = awesome gains <--- Established players

 

After training changes

5v1 coached sessions = fuck all gains <-- New players

1v1 coaches sessions = great gains <-- Established players

 

Join the dots...

5v1 now is similar to 2v1 under the old system, so it is closer. I think both of you are hitting on good points and ignoring some bad ones. I agree at the top decline was better before Mike changed it. We need a strong enough decline so that we don't get all these sensational across with some elite mixed in guys. Yes, before the changes we still had projects sitting on the shelf for months. I did before I was even remotely what you could call established. But, with the decline up top being stronger there is not as insane a goal to be shooting for before you are ready to take that guy out of the gym. That is if the learning speed earlier in a fighters career hadn't been nerfed. But, when Mike sped up training up top and slowed it down at the bottom then even if decline was stronger than it is now it will still take longer for those projects to be actual fighters.

 

I say speed decline back to before Mike changed it. Then revert early training back to what it was before the change. Faster training early plus greater decline later decreases the noob gap and makes tickers mean something again. One thing we forget is all these guys at the top including some of my own took full advantage of 1v1 training when early training was faster and there was no decline. Until decline means something that advantage is not going away.

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I want to point out that Jon Jones is 24 years old.

and he is nowhere near quad sensational... ;)

generaly, its suprising, but the idea of speeding things up isnt that bad.

But, the problem is, as with most text based games, that theres less of newcomers, and old ones have like anything they could ever get and theres problem...

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Really? I thought tickers were the thing introduced to prevent fighters from becoming quad elite/sensational (slower lower level gains with faster /which was the actual change/ do nothing to prevent it). Since tickers do nothing, it didnt happen. The change in learning speed distribution over skill level does absolutely nothing to quad sens thing, just sparring nerf does something - prevent newer fighters to reach the high levels as fast as the older fighters did.

Agreed

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But, the problem is, as with most text based games, that theres less of newcomers, and old ones have like anything they could ever get and theres problem...

Well, the usual solution to that is new worlds (see for example Ogame for reference /one of the oldest and most successful text based browser game ever/. Here the speedup CK proposes would do a similar thing, altho it would also be a total revamp to the game as it would push it away from tycoon to a fight simulator through a rough reset - it would almost instantly retire most todays top fighters (thats the reset part) and put a heavy time limit on when you can do something with a fighter, which multiplies the pressure on getting top hiddens (there is 0 reason to keep an average hiddens fighter if you can fully replace him in a week - if that was implemented, on the next morning I would release 10-12 of my current 15 fighters). Not saying I dont like it, but I can understand if others dont.

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I've seen the 'we need to make it faster for the new player' argument before in a boxing sim called "webl." In reality, the top players who'd been around a while, didn't want the hassle of replacing their end game fighters by going through a pretty long development experience. In the end, it made the beginning and middle game meaningless, as everyone was doing almost the same thing on auto-pilot, the individual fighters lost value, as they became easily replaceable, and the end game itself lost value, because it was so much more attainable, everybody was getting there without too much effort.

 

The end result was only hard core players stayed as they filled the ranks with their end game fighters and piled up 'world titles', while everybody else left. Because the idea of accomplishing the same reasonably easy to do thing over and over again doesn't appeal to most. And the new players were stuck at the beginning of the learning curve against FLYWEIGHT15 instead of fighters that active players were invested in all the way through the ranks.

 

As an actual new player, I can tell you...the beginning is enjoyable. I don't want a Wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks. YOU want a wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks, because that way when you find out that he isn't top 5 p4p bound due to hiddens or whatever else, then you can delete him, and have another guy at that level in 8 more weeks.

 

It's the same thing as Webl. Established players don't want every fighter to matter. But as long as the time you have to invest in each fighter remains very high, that isn't really an option. It keeps tiers of fighters, it keeps the top exclusive (which keeps it desirable), and it's in the best interest of the game long term.

 

(re older fighters...if chin is in fact degrading (maybe even all hiddens?), as some seem to think it may be...that's going to put serious pressure on old guys to retire, even if their visible stats are not degrading quickly.)

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I've seen the 'we need to make it faster for the new player' argument before in a boxing sim called "webl." In reality, the top players who'd been around a while, didn't want the hassle of replacing their end game fighters by going through a pretty long development experience. In the end, it made the beginning and middle game meaningless, as everyone was doing almost the same thing on auto-pilot, the individual fighters lost value, as they became easily replaceable, and the end game itself lost value, because it was so much more attainable, everybody was getting there without too much effort.

 

The end result was only hard core players stayed as they filled the ranks with their end game fighters and piled up 'world titles', while everybody else left. Because the idea of accomplishing the same reasonably easy to do thing over and over again doesn't appeal to most. And the new players were stuck at the beginning of the learning curve against FLYWEIGHT15 instead of fighters that active players were invested in all the way through the ranks.

 

As an actual new player, I can tell you...the beginning is enjoyable. I don't want a Wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks. YOU want a wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks, because that way when you find out that he isn't top 5 p4p bound due to hiddens or whatever else, then you can delete him, and have another guy at that level in 8 more weeks.

 

It's the same thing as Webl. Established players don't want every fighter to matter. But as long as the time you have to invest in each fighter remains very high, that isn't really an option. It keeps tiers of fighters, it keeps the top exclusive (which keeps it desirable), and it's in the best interest of the game long term.

 

(re older fighters...if chin is in fact degrading (maybe even all hiddens?), as some seem to think it may be...that's going to put serious pressure on old guys to retire, even if their visible stats are not degrading quickly.)

 

This was a really interesting post, thank you for writing it.

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I've seen the 'we need to make it faster for the new player' argument before in a boxing sim called "webl." In reality, the top players who'd been around a while, didn't want the hassle of replacing their end game fighters by going through a pretty long development experience. In the end, it made the beginning and middle game meaningless, as everyone was doing almost the same thing on auto-pilot, the individual fighters lost value, as they became easily replaceable, and the end game itself lost value, because it was so much more attainable, everybody was getting there without too much effort.

 

The end result was only hard core players stayed as they filled the ranks with their end game fighters and piled up 'world titles', while everybody else left. Because the idea of accomplishing the same reasonably easy to do thing over and over again doesn't appeal to most. And the new players were stuck at the beginning of the learning curve against FLYWEIGHT15 instead of fighters that active players were invested in all the way through the ranks.

 

As an actual new player, I can tell you...the beginning is enjoyable. I don't want a Wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks. YOU want a wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks, because that way when you find out that he isn't top 5 p4p bound due to hiddens or whatever else, then you can delete him, and have another guy at that level in 8 more weeks.

 

It's the same thing as Webl. Established players don't want every fighter to matter. But as long as the time you have to invest in each fighter remains very high, that isn't really an option. It keeps tiers of fighters, it keeps the top exclusive (which keeps it desirable), and it's in the best interest of the game long term.

 

(re older fighters...if chin is in fact degrading (maybe even all hiddens?), as some seem to think it may be...that's going to put serious pressure on old guys to retire, even if their visible stats are not degrading quickly.)

excellent point. maybe it's not JUST that tho. maybe some of us older managers have just gotten bored with the pace of the game and need something a bit quicker? a streamlined version of the game?

 

the beginning was enjoyable to me cuz i was so new. i didn't know a lot of the ins and outs. i could try and start over, but then i run into an edfan problem becuz i do have knowledge of establishment. when ur new, there's so much to strive for. u can see the top and ur formulating how to get there. when ur there. it's just...maintenance. maybe that's my problem?

 

kinda like when u used to make a new fighter. it was so exciting, so much promise. train, pop, rise up the ranks or fall by the wayside. then u hit a plateau (which SHOULD happen) and ultimately hit a decline (which SHOULD happen). right now tho, the rise got slower, the plateau gets boring and there's no decline. so there's no reason to bring in new excitement for any of the older fighters. no motivation.

 

i don't know...just thinkin out loud.

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That really put some things in perspective for me. Honestly I see merit in many of the arguments on this thread, and I don't know which one I agree with the most. It's obviously an interesting and tough problem to solve, or Mike would have already "fixed" it by now.

 

But after reading notwalnc's post, I realize I definitely don't want Mike to change the game and have it go totally downhill the way some of these other fighting sims have. :(

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I've seen the 'we need to make it faster for the new player' argument before in a boxing sim called "webl." In reality, the top players who'd been around a while, didn't want the hassle of replacing their end game fighters by going through a pretty long development experience. In the end, it made the beginning and middle game meaningless, as everyone was doing almost the same thing on auto-pilot, the individual fighters lost value, as they became easily replaceable, and the end game itself lost value, because it was so much more attainable, everybody was getting there without too much effort.

 

The end result was only hard core players stayed as they filled the ranks with their end game fighters and piled up 'world titles', while everybody else left. Because the idea of accomplishing the same reasonably easy to do thing over and over again doesn't appeal to most. And the new players were stuck at the beginning of the learning curve against FLYWEIGHT15 instead of fighters that active players were invested in all the way through the ranks.

 

As an actual new player, I can tell you...the beginning is enjoyable. I don't want a Wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks. YOU want a wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks, because that way when you find out that he isn't top 5 p4p bound due to hiddens or whatever else, then you can delete him, and have another guy at that level in 8 more weeks.

 

It's the same thing as Webl. Established players don't want every fighter to matter. But as long as the time you have to invest in each fighter remains very high, that isn't really an option. It keeps tiers of fighters, it keeps the top exclusive (which keeps it desirable), and it's in the best interest of the game long term.

 

(re older fighters...if chin is in fact degrading (maybe even all hiddens?), as some seem to think it may be...that's going to put serious pressure on old guys to retire, even if their visible stats are not degrading quickly.)

 

I respect your opinion about the issue, but like with our statements its not the general consensus, just one mans opinion. Ive seen noobs on the chatrooms complaining about fighter training speed. Ive seen tons of managers complaining they do not build new fighters. Ive seen the numbers drop drastically in the game with the excuse of advertising used as the reason when almost everyone agrees its the game play currently involved. It is only common sense that if people do not want to waste time making new guys... THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM!

 

Im pretty much done trying to help save this game. All these people who do not want changes, ill just say it now. Thank you for killing the game. When its over by the end of the year or first of next year, thank you for all the work you did keeping the status quo and making sure things didn't change to what everyone wants to see happen. Ill just be riding out the death of Tycoon from here on out. Im done wasting my time trying to get something fixed.

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right now tho, the rise got slower, the plateau gets boring and there's no decline. so there's no reason to bring in new excitement for any of the older fighters. no motivation.

 

i don't know...just thinkin out loud.

 

This hits the nail on the head in my opinion. The slow rise is turning away new managers and old managers. New managers are getting bored quickly and old members don't even want to create new fighters because it's so slow. As for the plateau, it seems to be endless leaving everyone to turn into Tito Ortiz's, Chuck Liddell's or Randy Couture's. Everyone is going to stay past their prime because the plateau is endless which gets old. You don't see pops anymore and you don't see de-pops making you keep the fighter around while at the same time getting bored with him because he doesn't change. I for one would rather see my 30 year olds de-popping because then I would know, hey... time for retirement. He's getting a bit old FOR THIS GAME. I get IRL fighters fight at 100 but this is a game and not RL. And as JBomb said, no decline which makes the plateau boring for me.

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I respect your opinion about the issue, but like with our statements its not the general consensus, just one mans opinion. Ive seen noobs on the chatrooms complaining about fighter training speed. Ive seen tons of managers complaining they do not build new fighters. Ive seen the numbers drop drastically in the game with the excuse of advertising used as the reason when almost everyone agrees its the game play currently involved. It is only common sense that if people do not want to waste time making new guys... THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM!

 

Im pretty much done trying to help save this game. All these people who do not want changes, ill just say it now. Thank you for killing the game. When its over by the end of the year or first of next year, thank you for all the work you did keeping the status quo and making sure things didn't change to what everyone wants to see happen. Ill just be riding out the death of Tycoon from here on out. Im done wasting my time trying to get something fixed.

 

Don't be like that, Bank. You are not the only one trying to come up with solutions. Some people are freaking out too much about things needing to be fixed, while other people are not realizing some of the problems the game has. Yes, we all have our own opinions, but please don't just give up and drop out of the conversation if you have something to add. We all know Mike does actually change the game based on our forum conversations so this could end up being one of THE most important threads in Tycoon history and could definitely determine the direction of the game moving forward.

 

I think the first thing that needs fixing is maintenance needs to actually do something besides just creating busywork. As it stands, it's just babysitting your fighter and it's having zero affect on actually keeping skills within reasonable levels.

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I think the first thing that needs fixing is maintenance needs to actually do something besides just creating busywork. As it stands, it's just babysitting your fighter and it's having zero affect on actually keeping skills within reasonable levels.

 

+1 million if you added speeding up training at lower levels IMO.

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the beginning was enjoyable to me cuz i was so new. i didn't know a lot of the ins and outs. i could try and start over, but then i run into an edfan problem becuz i do have knowledge of establishment. when ur new, there's so much to strive for. u can see the top and ur formulating how to get there. when ur there. it's just...maintenance. maybe that's my problem?

 

kinda like when u used to make a new fighter. it was so exciting, so much promise. train, pop, rise up the ranks or fall by the wayside. then u hit a plateau (which SHOULD happen) and ultimately hit a decline (which SHOULD happen). right now tho, the rise got slower, the plateau gets boring and there's no decline. so there's no reason to bring in new excitement for any of the older fighters. no motivation.

 

i don't know...just thinkin out loud.

This is actually "old server problem" common in MMORPG games - eventually the original player population gets everything it can (items dont decay, neither do levels/anything else), gets bored of fighting each other (there is always a point when the newcomers cannot catch up to the original population, not in a matter of rl year(s)) and eventually leaves with the server dying behind (new players stop coming due to it being impossible to catch up, the part of older players who is on the losing side starts to leave, the side who was winning leaves as well as it has nobody to meaningfully win over). The solution is a creation of a new server, back when I was playing lineage 2 there were migrating clans/alliances which had even over 100 people, they were traveling from server to server to battle each other or whoever else popped up. Now thats not possible here due to relatively low playerbase and players having much more than just characters + gear (==fighters) - dont think most org managers would just be willing to leave the org be and go make a new one on a new server.

 

But, there could be "new season" - like K1 was recently made, but normal MMA with inconvertible hype and impossible transfers; it could also have its own fighter slots.

 

Of course, there could be the learning speed boost + faster decay, but does that really solve the problem? Even if tickers are relatively fast, its going to take months/years for the older fighters to be forced to retire.

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I respect your opinion about the issue, but like with our statements its not the general consensus, just one mans opinion. Ive seen noobs on the chatrooms complaining about fighter training speed. Ive seen tons of managers complaining they do not build new fighters. Ive seen the numbers drop drastically in the game with the excuse of advertising used as the reason when almost everyone agrees its the game play currently involved. It is only common sense that if people do not want to waste time making new guys... THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM!

 

Im pretty much done trying to help save this game. All these people who do not want changes, ill just say it now. Thank you for killing the game. When its over by the end of the year or first of next year, thank you for all the work you did keeping the status quo and making sure things didn't change to what everyone wants to see happen. Ill just be riding out the death of Tycoon from here on out. Im done wasting my time trying to get something fixed.

I agree and disagree with you bankrupt, some of the change ideas you have come up with havent exactly been well thought out (ie arenas), while i agree that i have only made 2 non tournament new fighters since the training changes, 1 was cut because he was a complete dunce learner (even by the slowed down training standards) and the other i cut because of crappy hiddens. i have another fighter that im cutting that i made relatively recently im cutting because of crappy hiddens. only one of those three are being cut because of learning speed. but i wont be making anymore new fighters other than for tournaments, why? because in order to get them up to par with the 120k id beasts (one of the last groups to get the uber training) will take an extra 2 game years to do so. Do i think that training should be sped up a little bit? yes i certainly do, but keep the effectiveness of training where it is (as per class sizes) because i think that change is one that should stay, this way at least no connection noobs have a change to get good fighters. bankrupt, i dont see the game as dying as abruptly as you, maybe because my fighters suck and will probably suck forever and im looking up at the greatness rather than looking from it. i have played this game for 19 months now, in that time, i have had no fighters get past the top 200 p4p and i never cracked the top 100 managers, both of those goals i had since i started playing. And i will continue to play until those goals are met or Mike Tycoon forces me to stop playing. did i do better under the old systems? arguably yes i did because under the old engine i got to my highest ranking ever of 179, or close enough to after the switch where it doesnt matter. i never got the uber training and i honest regret that. i regret it all the time wondering where my best learner would be at stat wise if i knew about the uber training and had the means to fund it. i hold no illusions that this game is a struggle for new players because it was a struggle back when i started because i did not know anyone. it wasnt until i bought VIP that i had any inkling as to what was going on in this game.

 

 

anyway, i dont think we should go back to the uber training style of the old days, i want to keep the efficiency of the coaches currently while boosting the learning curve at the low end while capping it majorly at the high end. because the way it is now. its basically the same 100 managers fighting each other over and over again. if you guys disagree with my post then disagree as i probably wont post in this thread again, i just want to say my piece and be done with it

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I've seen the 'we need to make it faster for the new player' argument before in a boxing sim called "webl." In reality, the top players who'd been around a while, didn't want the hassle of replacing their end game fighters by going through a pretty long development experience. In the end, it made the beginning and middle game meaningless, as everyone was doing almost the same thing on auto-pilot, the individual fighters lost value, as they became easily replaceable, and the end game itself lost value, because it was so much more attainable, everybody was getting there without too much effort.

 

The end result was only hard core players stayed as they filled the ranks with their end game fighters and piled up 'world titles', while everybody else left. Because the idea of accomplishing the same reasonably easy to do thing over and over again doesn't appeal to most. And the new players were stuck at the beginning of the learning curve against FLYWEIGHT15 instead of fighters that active players were invested in all the way through the ranks.

 

As an actual new player, I can tell you...the beginning is enjoyable. I don't want a Wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks. YOU want a wonderful across the board fighter in 8 weeks, because that way when you find out that he isn't top 5 p4p bound due to hiddens or whatever else, then you can delete him, and have another guy at that level in 8 more weeks.

 

It's the same thing as Webl. Established players don't want every fighter to matter. But as long as the time you have to invest in each fighter remains very high, that isn't really an option. It keeps tiers of fighters, it keeps the top exclusive (which keeps it desirable), and it's in the best interest of the game long term.

 

(re older fighters...if chin is in fact degrading (maybe even all hiddens?), as some seem to think it may be...that's going to put serious pressure on old guys to retire, even if their visible stats are not degrading quickly.)

 

Awesome post. Really sheds light on how changes we think are for the best end up making things worse.

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I respect your opinion about the issue, but like with our statements its not the general consensus, just one mans opinion. Ive seen noobs on the chatrooms complaining about fighter training speed. Ive seen tons of managers complaining they do not build new fighters. Ive seen the numbers drop drastically in the game with the excuse of advertising used as the reason when almost everyone agrees its the game play currently involved. It is only common sense that if people do not want to waste time making new guys... THAT IS A MAJOR PROBLEM!

 

Im pretty much done trying to help save this game. All these people who do not want changes, ill just say it now. Thank you for killing the game. When its over by the end of the year or first of next year, thank you for all the work you did keeping the status quo and making sure things didn't change to what everyone wants to see happen. Ill just be riding out the death of Tycoon from here on out. Im done wasting my time trying to get something fixed.

 

No doubt. I do not question that people want training to go faster or that managers don't want to build new fighters. I just think there are some severe consequences that will cheapen the gameplay severely by doing so.

 

In my opinion, if the early/middle play is becoming tiresome, it needs to be innovated, not sped up and passed over.

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anyway, i dont think we should go back to the uber training style of the old days, i want to keep the efficiency of the coaches currently while boosting the learning curve at the low end while capping it majorly at the high end. because the way it is now. its basically the same 100 managers fighting each other over and over again. if you guys disagree with my post then disagree as i probably wont post in this thread again, i just want to say my piece and be done with it

 

This is the idea I like best. People didn't want all sensational across the board fighters so start slowing them down before they get to that. Instead of starting tickers at a certain percentage, start training slow down at that point. That way fighters have to choose what ones they want first and the most and have to take a slower approach with what they don't choose to boost right away. If they want an all around, they train all around and take the slower speeds towards the top end of all their stats. So now you either have for example a MT, Wrestling beast whose subs and boxing are being worked over time or you have a good boxer, MT, wrestler or BJJ fighter who takes time to progress from there.

 

This is where I think aptitude should have been better used instead of set aside.

 

 

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