SteelPenn Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 One of the biggest problems in this game is bad AI judging. How many times have any of you lost a fight that really reads to be one sided but still you lose? I would like to see an option to have in game judges for our orgs. Now I know before anyone can chime in to help this idea work the forum Full Timers will give many reasons why its not a good idea. Most predictable will be corrupt / bias judges so it will not work. Here is the plan, Better then in real life we can control corruption in our fantasy world and here is how. Allow our orgs to have their own private human judges. Now if there is a fight decision that is close and you feel it should be disputed you bring it to the game MMA Tycoon Judging Committee for review. We create a forum thread specifically to allow any disputed fights be left up to the MMA Tycoon Judging Committee. In this thread you post your disputed fight and a group of 5 elected forum judges review the fight. After reviewing the fight the MMA Tycoon Judging Committee submits their score cards to be tallied and would have the power to overturn the fight. No more AI bullshit decisions if you choose to join an org with in game judges. I see only two things that Mike would need to do in order to make this happen. 1. Turn off the in game judges if the fight go to a decision. 2. Reverse wins / loses on fighters records if the MMA Tycoon Judging Committee overturns a fight. Mike could even have one of his forum staff do this work. I feel this could work very well and create a lot of fun for us all. A diverse panel of judges would be needed. I would like to nominate myself as one of the MMA Tycoon Judging Committee judges. Thoughts? Ideas? 6 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjornmma1 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 It's not a bad idea altough I am afraid there will be found ways to misuse the system. I think just letting Mike take a look at the judges scoring and making some adjustments to their settings as to how they score a fight would be a safer way to deal with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itakebrides Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I like the idea of hiring judges and refs for org .They should work on the same scale as coaches where they a wage increase the longer there otherwise there morale will drop and start making bad decisions .There ability(how good bad they or) should be random and it up to you to decide to keep then or not .Poor judges will get decision wrong good judges wont most of the time(there still human) .Poor refs will make mistakes like stop fight early (costing someone the fight) late stoppages(where it will increase losing fighter injurys and energy loss because of it ) and bad decision like standing fighter up early . dont know about the committee maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Don't think you could ever have an unbiased judging panel for this to work effectively. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyJones Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 A lot of the judges decisions that people complain about probably aren't actually bad, it's just they don't understand how the scoring system works.Nothing personal but I don't like this idea at all. Judging needs to remain unbiased. To much immaturity in this community to be honest and it wouldn't create fun it would create arguments. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shards Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 User judges have always been a concept I thought would be awesome and just add an extra layer of the game. I see it this way, allow users to take a judging test, this would be watching X number(3?) of example fights where there should be some 10-10 10-9 and 10-8 rounds and have the judging perception of the user tested, allowing some room for human error but given they pass they're allowed to create a judge profile that is attached to their main account but invisible to everyone else. Then when a user is going to judge a fight remove the ToTT and the fighters names(Fighter A and B?) - don't even let the judge know what event this is for and let them judge the fight round by round. Given the system would already filter the fights that haven't gone to decision we're not likely dealing with a super large number of fights. It might not be perfect, it'd slow down getting fight results(and we all play this game because of how speedy things are ) and I assume some tinkering would need to be made at least a little bit but I think with 3 competent user judges we'd see the results we all would expect more often and like in real life it'd be nice if a judge could leave a comment - you felt like the round was a 10-9 but it was marked 10-8? The judge likely left a comment to explain him/herself. Of course the system that's currently in place could still be used if the org didn't feel like waiting for the results but it's a matter of are your fighters willing to trade some time to have other users judge the fight or are they perfectly fine with the automated system. On the orgs part I'd like to see a feature that allows them to place a complaint regarding a judge - like in real life this wouldn't actually overturn the decision(unless we have blatant trolling) but it would serve as a means to make the user aware of the possible judging error and they could look to improve, or not.(this is to help improve the system overall, shitty judging can still happen) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Just ask Mike to raise the average level of competence with the judges. He made it this way on purpose because this same kind of shit happens in real life therefore it adds another realistic element to the game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Edit: in short I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydebankblitz Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I don't mind bad decisions. That makes controversy which creates rematches and stuff. Gives you a talking point in the game. I like the game to be as close to MMA as possible and bad judging is certainly possible in real life. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I dont think its a good idea at all. Having managers judge fights would just open up a never ending can of worms. As DavyJones said earlier, what managers see as bad decisions are usually them really not understanding how the fights are scored. I really dont think bad decisions are even that prevalent in the game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniConor Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm against users being for judges, it's just an awful thought and I have no idea how it would be implemented. Right now you read the PBP and the decision pops up immediately, how would that work if the users judged the fight? "Oh just wait 2 hours for our third judge to log in to see if you won or lost" I recently have been fucked over twice in tournaments to a split and majority decision, it sucked and it completely demotivated me from this game. But it's a part of the game. I would be more for the idea of: There is a pool of referees and in each area. Orgs can hire them on an exlusive or non-exclusive basis... they can fly them around, for example if the best ref is Finnish, they can fly them out to LA to perform at the costs of that. This would add depth to running an org. Judges would have an experience and competence hidden, maybe you can only see their experience on a resume and you can judge for yourself if you think they are competent or not. Referees would be a little more easy to recruit. With some other hiddens: Clinch patience, ground patience (maybe a beatdown patience - how long before they call a TKO) and consistency Maybe I should start my own thread for this idea? P.s we could also add in morale and energy for each ref and judge.... The lower down it goes, so does their competence and consistency 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stpierrecanada Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Just ask Mike to raise the average level of competence with the judges. He made it this way on purpose because this same kind of shit happens in real life therefore it adds another realistic element to the game. I'm with this, as much as I'm on the losing end of bad decisions, I once and awhile find myself with a gift win which I much enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwad12345 Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Terrible idea, can't tell you how much I hate it. A lot of the judges decisions that people complain about probably aren't actually bad, it's just they don't understand how the scoring system works. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duphus Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I dont think its a good idea at all. Having managers judge fights would just open up a never ending can of worms. As DavyJones said earlier, what managers see as bad decisions are usually them really not understanding how the fights are scored. I really dont think bad decisions are even that prevalent in the game. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
embalmer Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 A lot of the judges decisions that people complain about probably aren't actually bad, it's just they don't understand how the scoring system works. Nothing personal but I don't like this idea at all. Judging needs to remain unbiased. To much immaturity in this community to be honest and it wouldn't create fun it would create arguments. Well, unless its written down somewhere and I missed it, Maybe Mike should reveal the scoringsystem used, because it's a source of confusion right now, the little info I've gotten about how its work its really not straightforward. The fighters/managers in say UFC knows til 99% how the judges score, unless u get a high/drunk judge, but here its not, some types of strikes are worth more than others, plus dmg, some attempts is giving points, like a clinchattempt etc etc, reveal the parameters used, it will be equal for all and eliminate any confusion how the fight is scored.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madness Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 A lot of the judges decisions that people complain about probably aren't actually bad, it's just they don't understand how the scoring system works. Nothing personal but I don't like this idea at all. Judging needs to remain unbiased. To much immaturity in this community to be honest and it wouldn't create fun it would create arguments. I have to agree with you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingEpicity Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Well, unless its written down somewhere and I missed it, Maybe Mike should reveal the scoringsystem used, because it's a source of confusion right now, the little info I've gotten about how its work its really not straightforward. The fighters/managers in say UFC knows til 99% how the judges score, unless u get a high/drunk judge, but here its not, some types of strikes are worth more than others, plus dmg, some attempts is giving points, like a clinchattempt etc etc, reveal the parameters used, it will be equal for all and eliminate any confusion how the fight is scored.. Actually this isn't entirely accurate. We all have the general scoring system used by judges of the athletic commissions but it's all pretty much up the preferences and perceptions of each individual judge. There is no clear cut way of valuing octagon control over "effective" striking for instance. This is how you get such drastic differences in scoring sometimes in real life, that or the judge is just a fucking rat but let's not get into that. Some judges value octagon control over anything else and that's how you get fights where a certain fighter was taken down repeatedly but clearly out-struck his opponent come out as a bad decision. The game is not too different from that, as mentioned above Mike purposely gave the judges a realistic level of competency and some judges are worse than others so to speak or maybe value different things(both are realistic). This adds that layer of real life to the game that sometimes you are gonna be on the bad end of a shit decision and sometimes you are going to win a decision you clearly should have lost. I agree maybe Mike can post a generalized version of the scoring system to help people understand. But for the most part some of the smarter managers here have pieced together what Mike has said and have a pretty good idea. Like the kicks vs head strikes thing mentioned... So maybe if Mike doesn't want to give a vague idea of the scoring system someone on the forums will one day put everything known together in one thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambo Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 A lot of the judges decisions that people complain about probably aren't actually bad, it's just they don't understand how the scoring system works. Nothing personal but I don't like this idea at all. Judging needs to remain unbiased. To much immaturity in this community to be honest and it wouldn't create fun it would create arguments. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPowell Posted December 13, 2015 Report Share Posted December 13, 2015 not sure I can agree. For realism, might as well make it random as hell like the UFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I can accept being on the wrong end of a close or in my opinion dodgy decision, such as Atunes vs Saades (lost) Cruz vs De Bramalo (won) because you take the rough with the smooth. However when in the 5th round the 'fight engine' puts your guy on 'fighting for decision' because the commentators have you ahead but the they see it differently to the judges, then you lose a wide unanimous decision, this isn't anything to do with 'not understanding scoring'. So what the fuck is that all about? Beating a guy within an inch of his life in the 4th for the fight engine to stick your guy on auto pilot in the 5th, when you're reading it yourself, thinking 'what the fuck, this is close he cant do that!' To me that's bullshit and needs addressing. If my guy had fought like a wild dog in the 5th and lost a dodgy decision, that I can accept. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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