streakoflove Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Not that I am complaining. I just want your opinion. 28 clinch attempts defended and still got dominated? http://mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=931354 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamesnoopy Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 He had you in the clinch the two rounds he won, where he landed more and controlled the exchanges. Once you got to land on the open in the third you took the round. Nothing unusual about this at all. You can't just defend. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 I don't think there's any penalty for spamming clinch attempts. Apart from being predictable to an intelligent opponent. Even spamming takedowns and subs doesn't seem to matter - supposedly you get more tired and less successful, but I don't know if you do really very much. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 I don't think there's any penalty for spamming clinch attempts. Apart from being predictable to an intelligent opponent. Even spamming takedowns and subs doesn't seem to matter - supposedly you get more tired and less successful, but I don't know if you do really very much. Doesn't seem to be true. Not in the current engine at least. I don't think there ever was a penalty for spamming Clinch attempts other then getting punched in the face a lot when you fail, but TD and Sub spam used to have a penalty to energy and predictability in the engine... now it doesn't seem to be the case and we are now seeing an enormous amount of TD+Sub Spammers especially in the lower tier of the game. Your ID restricted orgs and such. The prevailing wisdom on sliders back before I left the game for a number of years was that any setting above 20% or so was doomed to failure for TD attempts. Now you can see people going 100%TD all the time and actually having success. I, myself had problems with them before I learned how to deal with it. I feel that the top managers in the game don't really see the problem because they have all figured out how to shut that shit down and the opponents that they face have learned not to spam TDs at the higher levels of play, but down here in the trenches it can be tedious as Hell. Especially for new players that don't know how to deal with it and get frustrated with their standup fighter getting owned all the time. So many quit. I'm not suggesting that anything major be changed, just bring it back in line to what it was like 4 years ago and you would have a vastly improved engine. I'm not even arguing against such things as Mike increasing TD effectiveness. It's possible that the Strikers were having to easy a time of things at the top level or that TDs were to hard to land, but repeatedly throwing nothing but TD attempts at 100% with high aggro is unrealistic and silly. I have seen fights where there were over 25 unsuccessful TD attempts in a single round. No real life fighter would do that. I do hope that the penalty, whatever it was four years ago, get re-implemented and people have to actually think to set sliders and win fights rather then banking on the statistical likelihood that eventually one of those attempts will roll in their favor and get the TD. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imcool Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 At ID restricted orgs, a good way to counteract a TD spammer is to build fighters with no wrestling. Simply boxing and BJJ. Chances are slim to none that a young fighter will be good at standup, wrestling and on the ground. If you get taken down, submit him(if he has not much of a ground game), and set your slider to counter with headshots. Even a granite chin won't last long with no standup while spamming takedowns and failing. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philofthefuture Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 He certainly got you in clinch striking in the 2 rounds. You should have broken the clinch more now that we know he's a clinch rapist (or at least better than you). With regards to the 28 clinch attempts defended, I'm no expert but I think that's absurd. That should have a significant impact on his stamina and you should have been landing more counter attacks (instead you had a few only). I'm guessing it's bad luck + not so confident fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philofthefuture Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 Btw, I appreciate people posting their post fight reactions. Helps build a community and helps people learn more. Every match is different and every info counts. Keep posting! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsquirrel Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 I did exactly what you are talking about in this fight, predicted & countered the clinch attempts and made him eat punches instead: https://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=930161 So yes it can work. Breaking clinch once they get in on the other hand is something I'm having problems with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigLarry Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 I did exactly what you are talking about in this fight, predicted & countered the clinch attempts and made him eat punches instead: https://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=930161 So yes it can work. Breaking clinch once they get in on the other hand is something I'm having problems with. Do not allow them to break clinch (uncheck the box) and then beat them there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 26, 2018 Report Share Posted July 26, 2018 At ID restricted orgs, a good way to counteract a TD spammer is to build fighters with no wrestling. Simply boxing and BJJ. Chances are slim to none that a young fighter will be good at standup, wrestling and on the ground. If you get taken down, submit him(if he has not much of a ground game), and set your slider to counter with headshots. Even a granite chin won't last long with no standup while spamming takedowns and failing. I just build Muay Thai fighters with really good Punches, TDD and Defensive Grappling then shut them down if I get taken down so that the fight gets stood back up and a high degree of counter striking to the head. Either way it shuts them down pretty effectively, but the problem is that there are so many of them that you end up with Sensational TDD and Exceptional DG but your SD CW and all offensive skills are often neglected or only at Wonderful or so at best because you dare not let them get too good at takedowns or you cannot stop them again... Kind of irritating, but I am finally getting to the point where my fighter's offensive skills are developing nicely... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfred Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 That was my fighter you fought and our guys have met before when Shiv was his manager and I got hammered in that one. Wouldn't call this a domination either. Thought it was a close fight that my fighter won 2 rounds to 1. Based on that first encounter I knew that your guy was better on the outside and to be honest I assumed better overall in most areas. I set my tactics to aggressively clinch as I knew that was the best chance for me to win. Not sure what exactly what you predicted but I wasn't anywhere close to 100% "try to clinch" if that helps? Anyway, good fight and unlucky. Would be happy to rematch anytime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 I did exactly what you are talking about in this fight, predicted & countered the clinch attempts and made him eat punches instead: https://www.mmatycoon.com/fightcommentary.php?FTID=930161 So yes it can work. Breaking clinch once they get in on the other hand is something I'm having problems with. strength has a lot to do with breaking clinch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 strength has a lot to do with breaking clinch I'd imagine that Clinchwork plays the other major role in that equation. Having Elite strength alone is not enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBR Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 I'd imagine that Clinchwork plays the other major role in that equation. Having Elite strength alone is not enough... well yea i figured that was pretty obvious but then again --- many dont take into consideration physicals needed to back up skills 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 I agree. I am a big fan of physicals now. Especially for 25 year olds. I don't make 25 year olds now that i have a crop of 18 projects coming up and even a few 16 year old projects. Hell even they are Physical specimens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwang Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 Wrestling and then boxing are the most important primaries in the clinch. MT is far less useful. If - as has been suggested many times - Mike made knees and elbows more effective then people would start using them more and there'd be more variety of builds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 Wrestling and then boxing are the most important primaries in the clinch. MT is far less useful. If - as has been suggested many times - Mike made knees and elbows more effective then people would start using them more and there'd be more variety of builds. But instead he is opting to create 4 new skills to somehow create variety in builds... All this is going to do is cause people to go 100% into standup TDs and TDDef. I already see it. Right now there's no incentive to specialise in the clinch and making standup and clinch TDs will not change that. Statistically it's just not worth it to specialise in the clinch, you only need to minor in it so to speak and just have enough skills to get by and break clinch against a specialist to really win. I believe powering up elbows and especially knees could change this. Maybe even making the odd flashy standup knee or elbow move could help as well. Now there's some incentive for people to create varying builds. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warwynd Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 I agree about the Elbows and Knees and their effect on variety of builds. i never deliberately put points into Elbows or Knees as it is right now because they are so worthless. Elbows have a decent chance to cut... kind of, but Knees are almost worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockg Posted July 27, 2018 Report Share Posted July 27, 2018 Isn't it wrestling that gets you in and out of clinch the best? Just because you denied a lot of his clinches, you were still outstruck and outpointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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