Overeem?

[Erik]

You mean we shouldn't count the TUF guys when Forrest beat Rua and Jackson? Yeah no reason to count them especially since there were pretty good additions and another example of the UFC bring in Talent. There were others too but some got beat out by even newer talent which is what happens when you keep bringing then in rather they stay with stale fighters. So Gonzaga who smashed Cro Cop went on to lose to Shaub and Santos which lowered his stock.

 

Gonzaga got owned, twice, by Werdum.

 

Just saying, his stock was already lowered.

[Guest]

Not matching up good with Werdum hardly means Gonzaga wasnt a quality prospect at the time. The guys Gonzaga beat would have been world beaters to the guys who were brought in in Pride for the vets to beat. UFC brings in 10-0 vets and champs from small promotions to see if they have what it takes. Pride brought in Japanese boxers, judo guys, 40 year old guys, guy with 1-2 fights if any. Pride didnt look for prospects or legit fighters trying to work their way up. Pride just wanted bodies to build their stars up on. I can literally list dozens apon dozens of fighters used in Pride that had a background or record you would be lucky to find 1-2 times in the UFC.

[Erik]

Not matching up good with Werdum hardly means Gonzaga wasnt a quality prospect at the time. The guys Gonzaga beat would have been world beaters to the guys who were brought in in Pride for the vets to beat. UFC brings in 10-0 vets and champs from small promotions to see if they have what it takes. Pride brought in Japanese boxers, judo guys, 40 year old guys, guy with 1-2 fights if any. Pride didnt look for prospects or legit fighters trying to work their way up. Pride just wanted bodies to build their stars up on. I can literally list dozens apon dozens of fighters used in Pride that had a background or record you would be lucky to find 1-2 times in the UFC.

 

Not arguing with the part about some less-than-excellent fighters PRIDE signed up (that said, they didn't have KOTC / Hook n Shoot to sign big guys from and the smaller Japan leagues rarely have guys over 185) -- but when it comes down to it they signed the majority of top guys from every part of the world bar America (even then they got many of the top guys -- Barnett, Rampage, and Henderson to name a few).

 

The UFC was signing plenty of really mediocre fighters too -- Cruz was signed with 1 pro fight to fight Frank Mir, Tank was brought back for no legitimate reason, plenty of other examples.

[Guest]

Not arguing with the part about some less-than-excellent fighters PRIDE signed up (that said, they didn't have KOTC / Hook n Shoot to sign big guys from and the smaller Japan leagues rarely have guys over 185) -- but when it comes down to it they signed the majority of top guys from every part of the world bar America (even then they got many of the top guys -- Barnett, Rampage, and Henderson to name a few).

 

The UFC was signing plenty of really mediocre fighters too -- Cruz was signed with 1 pro fight to fight Frank Mir, Tank was brought back for no legitimate reason, plenty of other examples.

 

 

Tank was in good shape when he was brought back by the UFC and wasnt that bad of a fighter when he left. Either way that Tank was light years above the Tank that Pride brought in 2.5 years later. I was a fan of Pride as it was a change of pace. BUt i dont see how anyone can take it serious and think it was on the UFC's level. They did everythign they could to keep the same old fighters. It was well known and even the Pride fighters will admit it. They refused to give you any notice if they didnt want you to win. There was a reason Tank was 50 lbs heavier than he was in the UFC. They pretend they are not interested until 3 weeks before the fight then send him a contract so he cant be prepared for Yoshida. They also refused to fly him in early to get over the jet lag. Yeah they brought Rampage in back in 2001. But they also tried to pay him to take a dive. Offering him money if he lost by submission. He claims he never took the bribe. But he did lose by submission and was brought back and put in a position to have success just like Coleman after he took a dive with Takada. we know how much Rampage loves money.

 

So even when Pride did bring in someone who may have been a good fighter from Rings or another Promotion. They were never given a chance to succeed. Pride used everything at their disposal. Match making, fight notice, travel, rules, etc to assure the guys they already built won the fights. But most of the time the guys they brought in were over the hill and one diminsional. I remember when Tom Eickson was 10-1 and one of Prides top HW's and they brought in a Tim Catalfo. A big name back in the early days. But not at 44 years old verses the younger, bigger, and better version of him self.

 

As a sport Pride was a joke from top to bottom. As a competition it was a joke. The fake fights and others things the promotion manipulated bastardized the entire product. IMO and the way i looked at Pride was a compiation of meaningless fights. Some fights were good but you never knew if it really meant anything. Fixed fights manipulated the hype of every fighter and every fighter that fighter fought until the perceived talent level and ranking of every fighter has been falsely attained. Its one thing to keep all the same fighters. at least you can crown a best of that group even if that group is below those outside the group. But when you have fixed fights you cant even be sure who the best is of that group. Everything has been tainted.

 

Here is a classic example of the impact Prides shadiness has on its fighters. We know Rampage was offered money to lose to Sakuraba. Probabley the biggest legend Pride ever had. How many times have his opponents been offered money to lose? How many accepted? I have always believe Randleman took a dive in their fight. He was in acar wreck and wasnt supposed to fight. So he talked about using his BJJ lol. They both drug the fight out and Randleman was throwing telegraphed punches from a mile way to sell the fight. Rather than power out of the armbar that he has always done he rolled to his back where he was powerless. Then you have the Guy Mezger fight where Guy beat him and won the fight. But Pride changed the rules and wanted to keep adding rounds until Sakuraba won. Ken Shamrock flipped out and made Guy leave the ring. They were never going to let Saku lose that fight. They then announced to the croud that Guy lost his heart and quit the fight. That is just one fighter who legit is largely shaped by corruption.

[Guest]

Also Cruz was a world champion in BJJ. He was brought in as a prospect and got 1 win in the UFC. Yes he fought Frank Mir in his second fight. But it was a justified fight. Mir had been out for 2 years due to his car wreck that about ended his career. Mir got beat in that fight. Good think the UFC didnt throw him to the wolves in his first fight. It would have been crazy to give him a top ranked guy in that fight. There was nothing wrong with that fight at all.

 

 

Secondly Pride has the same promotions the UFC had to choose from. They just choose to not get much talent from the one place in the world where the best fighters were and the sport was the biggest. They did use KOTC and H&S. Thats where Rampage was fighting when he got called up to take a dive vs Saku. Most of their fighters were from the US but they refused to bring in top talent because they already had names. They didnt need talent. They needed bodies. They didnt think twice when they could sign a guy from the UFC who had a name. Like you said there were many big name fighters. But thats all they wanted. They wanted names and bodies. They had no interest in find the next big thing and having to build him up. They only did that with Japanese fighters with fixed fights. Like Ogawa and his 7-0 record of all fixed fights. Or Yoshida and his special rules matches with a GI in circus fights.

[Guest]

Tank was in good shape when he was brought back by the UFC and wasnt that bad of a fighter when he left. Either way that Tank was light years above the Tank that Pride brought in 2.5 years later.

Hahaha. The double standards... So funny! Especially when your mancrush Tank is involved. You're always talking about people not deserving to be in the UFC, but if there's one guy who didn't have business being in the UFC it was Tank. He's the biggest loser in UFC history. Nobody has more losses than him. And nobody ever deserved a title shot less than him either. He had everything given to him and he fucked it up every time.

[Guest]

Hahaha. The double standards... So funny! Especially when your mancrush Tank is involved. You're always talking about people not deserving to be in the UFC, but if there's one guy who didn't have business being in the UFC it was Tank. He's the biggest loser in UFC history. Nobody has more losses than him. And nobody ever deserved a title shot less than him either. He had everything given to him and he fucked it up every time.

 

 

What was given to him? He fought ever legend of the old UFC. What you claim was given to him was on 3 days notice that he wasnt allowed to train for at all. You say by far the dumbest shit i have ever read with fucked up logic and no facts to support your claims.

 

Fact was Tank has only lost to champions when he left the UFC. He had every right to be allowed back in just as Couture was allowed back in after he was crushed out of HW and LHW and comeback to fight Sylvia at UFC 68. Tank was in good shape for the fights but he wasnt ready mentally because he was dealing with the death of his month and his dog Adolf who was his best friend. Not saying the fights would have been different but he did tried to postpone his return and the UFC talked him into fighting. He also showed he was every bit as good as Cabbage who was a UFC regular at the time. He also wasnt fighting title holders like what you see in Japan. Tank got the mid level fighters like one would expect for someone starting over.

 

 

BTW, who did i say doesnt deserve to be in the UFC? I hope you see the difference in giving someone a 3 fight contract to prove they belong like the UFC does every rookie they bring from Wild Bills Fight Night and someone who is old and losing all the time and getting 10+ fights. Wandy Silva is 3-7 in his last 10 fights. He should not be in the UFC but is because he is a name. So he is coming up on his 9th fight in the UFC. I never had a problem with giving someone, even Kimbo Slice, a 3 fight deal to prove themselves. I want to see the best fighters in the world. I dont want to see people protected and i dont want someone black balled. IF you think you are UFC level then prove it. UFC hads out 100's of 3 fights deals each year looking for the best. Tank was no different and it was the same contract others have gotten. It didnt work out and they didnt resign him. Thats how it works. But he deserved the shot.

[Erik]

Tank was in good shape when he was brought back by the UFC and wasnt that bad of a fighter when he left. Either way that Tank was light years above the Tank that Pride brought in 2.5 years later. I was a fan of Pride as it was a change of pace. BUt i dont see how anyone can take it serious and think it was on the UFC's level. They did everythign they could to keep the same old fighters. It was well known and even the Pride fighters will admit it. They refused to give you any notice if they didnt want you to win. There was a reason Tank was 50 lbs heavier than he was in the UFC. They pretend they are not interested until 3 weeks before the fight then send him a contract so he cant be prepared for Yoshida. They also refused to fly him in early to get over the jet lag.

 

Tank was 8-7, hadn't won in years, hadn't trained in years and his last fight had been utter humiliation against Rizzo. At least when Pride signed him he had a win in the last 5 years.

 

 

So even when Pride did bring in someone who may have been a good fighter from Rings or another Promotion. They were never given a chance to succeed. Pride used everything at their disposal. Match making, fight notice, travel, rules, etc to assure the guys they already built won the fights. But most of the time the guys they brought in were over the hill and one diminsional. I remember when Tom Eickson was 10-1 and one of Prides top HW's and they brought in a Tim Catalfo. A big name back in the early days. But not at 44 years old verses the younger, bigger, and better version of him self.

 

The example you provide really just seems like an effort to get Tom a fight truth be told, most guys wanted nothing to do with him; especially after the Herring loss when he wasn't really considered a top fighter but was still very dangerous (for the first few minutes anyway). Tons of guys got looked after really well, though it did seem like having solid management was somewhat essential to getting the best conditions, that's true in any organisation though.

 

 

As a sport Pride was a joke from top to bottom. As a competition it was a joke. The fake fights and others things the promotion manipulated bastardized the entire product. IMO and the way i looked at Pride was a compiation of meaningless fights. Some fights were good but you never knew if it really meant anything. Fixed fights manipulated the hype of every fighter and every fighter that fighter fought until the perceived talent level and ranking of every fighter has been falsely attained. Its one thing to keep all the same fighters. at least you can crown a best of that group even if that group is below those outside the group. But when you have fixed fights you cant even be sure who the best is of that group. Everything has been tainted.

 

Disagree, with a few (generally obvious exceptions) the fights were pretty clearly legit -- I doubt think Wanderlei Silva was beating the hell out of guys as part of some kind of bizarre worked shoot. Plus the competition level was at worst comparable, if not better, with any other promotion out there at the time. One thing that Pride did was they didn't fire up the hype train to make a big deal out of non-events (like Chuck Liddell vs Babalu II, Eilers vs Arlovski, or Silva vs Leites) and sell off the mismatches as competitive fights.

 

 

Here is a classic example of the impact Prides shadiness has on its fighters. We know Rampage was offered money to lose to Sakuraba. Probabley the biggest legend Pride ever had. How many times have his opponents been offered money to lose? How many accepted? I have always believe Randleman took a dive in their fight. He was in acar wreck and wasnt supposed to fight. So he talked about using his BJJ lol. They both drug the fight out and Randleman was throwing telegraphed punches from a mile way to sell the fight. Rather than power out of the armbar that he has always done he rolled to his back where he was powerless. Then you have the Guy Mezger fight where Guy beat him and won the fight. But Pride changed the rules and wanted to keep adding rounds until Sakuraba won. Ken Shamrock flipped out and made Guy leave the ring. They were never going to let Saku lose that fight. They then announced to the croud that Guy lost his heart and quit the fight. That is just one fighter who legit is largely shaped by corruption.

 

Rampage claims he was offered money though there's no real evidence either way, I hardly consider Rampage's word proof of anything given how well known he is for bullshitting (this is a guy claiming he's turning down acting gigs to fight), Mezger always has some excuse for losing (seriously he's got more than Tito), and Randleman has shitty submission defence -- nothing to see here. Though if you want to go down that line of thought: Shamrock vs Franklin.

[Dee]

What????? After all his fighter bashing Mr. BS puts Tank Abbott to a pedestal? BrainFarts man...

 

 

[Guest]

See you are just reach for anything to make an argument. It was a fact The Guy fight was under special time lImits and they tried to add another round because Guy was winning the fight. This is confirmed in just about every book on MMA. Why do you think Ken was going ape shit and MADE Guy go to the locker room?

 

It doesn't matter what Randlemans sub defense was like. The guy was claiming he was going to use his BJJ so he had a built in excuse. He never tried to land a real punch or wIn the fight. He wasn't even cleared to fight. So like his mentor Coleman he took a dive after 3 rounds of movie punches and grappling.

 

Pride promoted their circus fights just in a different way. Not as competitve fights because it wasn't a real competition. He'll they were calling Randlemans Donky Kong. Also Eilers was a very big prospect at the time. He was dominating a tour y in Hawaii and it was well known he was screwed. I think he beat cabbage at the time and lost a bad decision. Everyone was talking about him and he was a big deal for a while. But the HW division was thin but as we saw when Gan McGee put it all over Herring in Pride and Ricco all over Nog the UFC was as good or better.

[Guest]

I also heard Anderon Silva took a dive in PRIDE! BJJ under Nogueira brothers and got submited twice by japanese fighters? And he loves money also!

[Rambo]

The art of taking dives:

 

 

 

PRIDE was awesome. While the ownership situation was shady, to say there's no legitimacy over there doesn't make any sense what so ever.

 

 

Dan Henderson

Shogun

Rampage

Big Nog

 

4 PRIDE fighters that came to the UFC after their PRIDE days and became champ or competed for title shots against the UFC's best. The UFC is hands down, the best, now. But PRIDE > UFC at one point in time. There's a handful of things PRIDE has over the UFC.

 

Rampage dominating Chuck Liddell - in Chuck's prime, and Chuck proved he was the best LHW in the UFC before & after that loss.

 

Entertainment value - PRIDE was all about entertainment. The entertainment value they brought to the fans was much better than anything the UFC has ever done.

 

Respect of the sport/fans - no booing. Bigger crowds, same game, yet no booing. Respect.

 

 

Does that make them better? Not exactly. But they didn't lack competition any more than the UFC did at the time.

 

 

Liddell vs Vernon White

White was 0-2-1 in 3 fights before the Chuck fight, and if you ever wanna make a case for a rigged fight, that was one of the most rigged looking KO's ever. While I believe that PRIDE has rigged fights before, I believe the UFC has too. Not sure if White/Liddell is one of them, but how many just outright retarded decisions have you seen?

 

 

Franklin vs Shamrock

 

Tito vs Shamrock 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

damn how many times did they fight in a row?

 

 

I just don't have the effort to go on. To discredit any accomplishments some of the fighters have had over there, is like discrediting the Patriots for their little practice video taping scam (which no doubt in my mind, all teams are doing sneaky shit) despite winning 3/4 Superbowls.

[Guest]

Best thing in PRIDE was rules !

[Guest]

 

 

Respect of the sport/fans - no booing. Bigger crowds, same game, yet no booing. Respect.

 

 

 

I agree with most of this post, but if I recall correctly they went ape shit for every pro wrestler who ever fought there, so the whole "educated, mature Japanese fan" stereotype is a bit shaky imo.

[Guest]

It has nothing to do with respect they just have a different way to express themselves than Americans. Is it lack of respect when they don't show excitement like the American crowds?

 

Chuck knocked Vernon out. Not sure what decision you were watching.

 

Ken and Tito fought so many times because Ken acts like a retard when knocked out or hurt. His brain shuts off and he can't move but his eyes look fine. So people complained it was an early stoppage. But he looked the same way vs Franklin and Sakuraba. I have never seen anyone react like he does. It is weird and he jumps right up and complains every time.

 

Chuck was just destroyed by Couture when he fought Jackson in Pride.

 

I never said every pride fighter sucked. But you have to admit Rampage and Nog and others got easy paths to the belts they got. Fact is the UFC paid 65 million for Pride and their fighters. They had to try and get something out of the fighters. You bring over Pride guys after all this time and we get Nog vs Herring 3? Come on now. They bring Eastman from the minors to fight Rampage?

 

 

There has never been a fight fixed by the UFC. In fact there is only two known or even suspected fixed fights on the history of the UFC and that was Don Frye vs Mark Hall and Oleg Taktarov vs Anthony Macias. Both were set up by them and their managers not the UFC.

[Guest]

It has nothing to do with respect they just have a different way to express themselves than Americans. Is it lack of respect when they don't show excitement like the American crowds?

 

Actually there is just these drunk rednecks only want to see KO they are not much educated in the sport and dont understand all aspects of it.

 

Chuck knocked Vernon out. Not sure what decision you were watching.

 

He said that KO looked rigged and about decisions he was talking generaly because there are a lot of weird decisions in UFC AND you talked that much about rampage taking money in PRIDE and now look at this Ariel H interview with him

from 15-16min !

 

Ken and Tito fought so many times because Ken acts like a retard when knocked out or hurt. His brain shuts off and he can't move but his eyes look fine. So people complained it was an early stoppage. But he looked the same way vs Franklin and Sakuraba. I have never seen anyone react like he does. It is weird and he jumps right up and complains every time.

 

NO they made those fights because they both where big names and UFC could get money from those events.

 

 

Chuck was just destroyed by Couture when he fought Jackson in Pride.

 

And after Jackson destroyed him he went on 7 fight winning streak destroying all his opponents including Couture SO what doest it says?

 

 

 

I never said every pride fighter sucked. But you have to admit Rampage and Nog and others got easy paths to the belts they got. Fact is the UFC paid 65 million for Pride and their fighters. They had to try and get something out of the fighters. You bring over Pride guys after all this time and we get Nog vs Herring 3? Come on now. They bring Eastman from the minors to fight Rampage?

 

PRIDE was have many years a go? 10? who of those ufc chempions who where at the time is now champions in UFC or who of those fighters who was fighting in UFC at the time are champions now? Maybe only GSP and are there any champions coming from PRIDE now in UFC? Anderson.

 

 

There has never been a fight fixed by the UFC. In fact there is only two known or even suspected fixed fights on the history of the UFC and that was Don Frye vs Mark Hall and Oleg Taktarov vs Anthony Macias. Both were set up by them and their managers not the UFC.

 

Have you know that? You have some mind reading powers?

[Rambo]

I agree with most of this post, but if I recall correctly they went ape shit for every pro wrestler who ever fought there, so the whole "educated, mature Japanese fan" stereotype is a bit shaky imo.

 

I wasn't tryin to stereotype them as the more "educated, mature" fans - but odds are they are much more educated (school, not MMA) than the majority of american fans lol, I was simply stating that they have a lot more respect for the sport and the athletes. So much respect for them they don't boo them, regardless of how boring they are. Every fighter who has ever fought there will tell you the same thing.

 

NO they made those fights because they both where big names and UFC could get money from those events.

 

Exactly. The hype would sell PPV's.

 

And after Jackson destroyed him he went on 7 fight winning streak destroying all his opponents including Couture SO what doest it says?

 

Seems like he'll say anything to discredit PRIDE fighters, even if it means discrediting the UFC guys they beat in the process.

 

PRIDE was have many years a go? 10? who of those ufc chempions who where at the time is now champions in UFC or who of those fighters who was fighting in UFC at the time are champions now? Maybe only GSP and are there any champions coming from PRIDE now in UFC? Anderson.

 

I didn't even mention him. He was what, 3-2 at PRIDE? Came to the UFC and has pretty much dominated ever since. GSP won the belt against Hughes in 2006, then lost it to Matt Serra in 2007. Most fans try to use who fighters beat, and who they lost to as evidence of who's the best and who's not, but the fact is there is an any given sunday element involving fights (just like in this game, but people still complain bout it), just like any other sport. All it takes is one tiny mistake.. leaving a limb out there for your opponent to snag up, leaving your hands down, swinging a split second too late or too early leaving you open to take one on the chin...

 

You can't say Wanderlei Silva is a scrub or wasn't an amazing athlete/fighter in his days at PRIDE, he's a fuckin beast. And I didn't like Wanderlei @ PRIDE (Rampage fan) but he grew on me due to his fighting style. He comes out there and fights. Every time. No fear, no running, and I don't care who he fights, if he's on the main card I would buy watch the PPV fight just to watch him go toe to toe with somebody. Him being 3-7 (or whatever his record is) has nothin to do with ability either, he left PRIDE after gettin his melon split open by Cro Cop and Dan Henderson knockin his block off. You can only take so much punishment throughout your career, and eventually you see it catch up to every legend.

 

Have you know that? You have some mind reading powers?

 

He's clearly the most educated, unbiased, omnipotant, most knowledgable historian of MMA ever to walk the land.

[Guest]

I wasn't tryin to stereotype them as the more "educated, mature" fans - but odds are they are much more educated (school, not MMA) than the majority of american fans lol, I was simply stating that they have a lot more respect for the sport and the athletes. So much respect for them they don't boo them, regardless of how boring they are. Every fighter who has ever fought there will tell you the same thing.

 

 

Yeah, it wasn't aimed directly at what you said (though my quoting of your post might indicate so), but it's something that seems to pop up a lot in these discussions. They did seem to have more respect back then at least, but wasn't there some pretty heavy booing at the recent UFC Japan card as well?

[Rambo]

Yeah, it wasn't aimed directly at what you said (though my quoting of your post might indicate so), but it's something that seems to pop up a lot in these discussions. They did seem to have more respect back then at least, but wasn't there some pretty heavy booing at the recent UFC Japan card as well?

 

 

It was a lot more quiet then other events. If I remember correctly, some of the fighters talked about how much different it was. It wasn't packed with nothin but Japanese fans either, there was a lot of people from all over the place there. There could of been some booing I can't recall exactly, but I feel like I remember a lot of fighters making comments about the difference between the event in Japan and other places. I remember a lot of the Japanese had surgical mask covering their face.

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1081465-ufc-144-results-are-us-crowds-the-most-disrespectful-in-the-sport

 

 

 

Googled it as I was typing a response, it was Joe Rogan who kept commenting on the energy of the crowd and how they don't boo.

[Eveas]

It was a lot more quiet then other events. If I remember correctly, some of the fighters talked about how much different it was. It wasn't packed with nothin but Japanese fans either, there was a lot of people from all over the place there. There could of been some booing I can't recall exactly, but I feel like I remember a lot of fighters making comments about the difference between the event in Japan and other places. I remember a lot of the Japanese had surgical mask covering their face.

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1081465-ufc-144-results-are-us-crowds-the-most-disrespectful-in-the-sport

 

 

 

Googled it as I was typing a response, it was Joe Rogan who kept commenting on the energy of the crowd and how they don't boo.

I was able to go to Pride 3. I was a big Kerr fan back then. It was insane how quiet that place would get when the fighting started.

[Guest]

Actually there is just these drunk rednecks only want to see KO they are not much educated in the sport and dont understand all aspects of it.

 

 

 

He said that KO looked rigged and about decisions he was talking generaly because there are a lot of weird decisions in UFC AND you talked that much about rampage taking money in PRIDE and now look at this Ariel H interview with him

from 15-16min !

 

 

 

NO they made those fights because they both where big names and UFC could get money from those events.

 

 

 

 

And after Jackson destroyed him he went on 7 fight winning streak destroying all his opponents including Couture SO what doest it says?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you know that? You have some mind reading powers?

 

 

 

Funny the japanese are the ones who dont know anything about the sport. In fact they are not there to see MMA to begin with. Look at Pride when they started. The first 3 years they had no crowd. IT wasnt until they brought in the pro wrestlers and fixed fights they could compete with Pancrase and NJPW. Hell the japanese crowd cant even spot a fake fight.

 

 

Of course the Vernon KO looked fake. He got his eye socket broke and claimed it was an eye poke. He got cracked and went down holding his eye.

 

 

I see im going to have to explain things slower. what you are saying is getting borderline retard. The UFC doesnt control the judges. In fact they havent controled the judges since 2001 and events in New Jersey in 2000. You simply dont know what your talking about. My brother just become a licensed judge and doesnt answer to the promoters at all.

 

 

What does that Rampage interview have to do with anything? All he said was "AT THE TIME" he "BELIEVED" the UFC controlled the judges and screwed him and hinted that he dont believe that now but how he felt then. He is full of shit. You have to remember he was out of his fucking head at the time and it was like the next day that he went on a Rampage and the police arrested him at gun point.

 

 

They set up Ken vs Tito because it was a grudge that has been boiling for a long time. Not expecting any of you noobs to remember that. Ken claimed he was hurt for the fight. Since Tito was ducking Chuck at the time they didnt have much fights left so they set them up again. Then it was a contraversal stoppage and they did it again after they coached TUF. NOt the most competitive fight but light years ahead of the match ups Pride was doing. Also before anyone of you Nut Priders bag on the UFC using Ken. You might want to be away that when Ken fought Tito the second time he was coming off a fight with Sakuraba. In fact Ken was coming off a decent run in Pride when he fought Tito the first time. He was smashing Fujita until the famed "Petey my heart" fiasco and he went to a split decision with Frye. So it doesnt loom good you say Ken shouldnt have been used in the UFC when Pride used him at the same exact time.

 

 

Yes Chuck did go on a run and beat Chuck. What that says is Couture had finally declined to the point he could no longer beat Chuck. When randy was 40 and Chuck was 34 Randy was better. BUt not 3 years later. He gets old too. Chuck sure as hell wasnt getting better in his mid to late 30's like you are trying to act like. Im sure Vitro Befort could beat Randy today. That doesnt mean Vitor is now Couture 2003 level. It just means Couture has declined a ton since then.

 

PRIDE was have many years a go? 10? who of those ufc chempions who where at the time is now champions in UFC or who of those fighters who was fighting in UFC at the time are champions now? Maybe only GSP and are there any champions coming from PRIDE now in UFC? Anderson.

 

I will try to answer this but it doesnt make ant since at all. No it wasnt 10 years ago Pride went under and no the UFC doesnt have champs that hold belts for 10 years. Because this is a competition with the best fighters in the world. THe UFC doesnt avoid talented fighters they seek them out. They dont hide their champs and make their fights non title fights so they can hold the belt for 6 years and never defend them like Wanderlei Silva and Takanori Gomi and Fedor. The average UFC champ lasts 2 years or 2-3 title defenses. THe talent is to deep and the sport evolves to fast. Only in a fantasy land where you have a pro wrestling pro motion pretending to be a MMA promotion do every champ hold the belt for 6 years.

 

 

How do i know there were no other fixed fights? Because the UFC has no reason to be behind them and we have laws agains them here and most importantly i watch the fights and can tell if a fight is fishy. You never know 100% but you have a good idea. Fighters will never admit them. To this day Coleman still refuses to admit he took a dive vs Takada. He will only say he did things he wasnt proud of and took the match because he needed money. Most of these guys still hope to get work in Japan. Coleman and Randleman and many others have done pro wrestling there and dont want to admit to anything. It can also have a negative effect on their MMA career. To this day Don frye refuses to admit he paid MArk Hall to take a dive. Even though Mark Hall admits it and Andy Anderson another UFC fighter at the time said he stood in the meeting with Frye, Hall, and their manager and it is in every MMA book about the times. Not that you need that much proof since it was one of the worst worked fights in history. They didnt even try to sell it.

 

 

There was only 1 fight i was ever suspecious of in the UFC outside those two fights. I thought the fighter took a dive but later i realized it was just one of those things after seeing the guy fight more. It was Yves Edwards vs Hominick. At the time there was a rumor that someone dumped a huge amount of money on Hominick who was like 3-1 or 5-1 underdog since Yves at the time was really the uncrowned champion of 155 in the UFC. Hominick was supposed to be a striker and Yves was well rounded. Yves ended up taking him down and getting submited. The fight didnt go how anyone expect. There was a huge bet made on the underdog and Yves had already had a fight booked in Pride exactly 1 month later. I suspected he bet his purse on his underdog opponent and give up the submission to cash in and be healthy for his Pride fight that paid more than the UFC at the time. But really what happened was Hominich had a better ground game than anyone expected. Yves was on the down side of his career and got hurt to the body which later proved was one of Hominicks best punches which hurt Yves so he was open to the submission.

 

Bu tthat was the closest thing to a fishy fight i have ever seen in the UFC besides the 2 old fights. There are many unconfirmed fights in Pride i would bet everything i have they were works. Specifically the Randleman vs Saku fight. There are some i believe are very likely works. Like Don Frye vs Yoshida.

[Guest]

I wasn't tryin to stereotype them as the more "educated, mature" fans - but odds are they are much more educated (school, not MMA) than the majority of american fans lol, I was simply stating that they have a lot more respect for the sport and the athletes. So much respect for them they don't boo them, regardless of how boring they are. Every fighter who has ever fought there will tell you the same thing.

 

I doubt that is education. More likely they are easily entertained due to the lack of sporting options and entertainment in the country. Also there have been many studies of the UFC/MMA demographic and they all say that UFC fans are on eof the most educated fan bases in all sports mostly college educated and upper middle class.

 

In addition to their youthful demographics, MMA fans have sound financials. They are 15 percent more likely than the average American adult to have a household income of $75k+ and 10 percent more likely to own a second home. They are selective investors and six percent more likely to have stocks or stock options in their household, and 33 percent more likely to invest online.

 

 

 

 

Seems like he'll say anything to discredit PRIDE fighters, even if it means discrediting the UFC guys they beat in the process.

 

 

Yeah because Couture was in his Prime at 43 years old. lol But i will give you Jackson vs Chuck. It was a good match up. Chuck was built to beat wrestlers. Its what he did. Stuff takedowns or get back up and KO them. Technically he was never a great striker and struggled with every striker he faced. Even Tiger White give him trouble. He had trouble with Overeem and was in an even fight with Befort and some argue he lost to Bustamante. He has had trouble with everyone with decent striking. Ussually getting bailed out by his chin and power. But Rampage also has chin and power. It was just a bad match up for Chuck. Irnically now Rampage is crying he dont want to fight the guys Chuck was made to beat. Chuch was always a better fighter than Rampage but not head to head. Couture would have eat Jackson alive.

 

 

 

I didn't even mention him. He was what, 3-2 at PRIDE? Came to the UFC and has pretty much dominated ever since. GSP won the belt against Hughes in 2006, then lost it to Matt Serra in 2007. Most fans try to use who fighters beat, and who they lost to as evidence of who's the best and who's not, but the fact is there is an any given sunday element involving fights (just like in this game, but people still complain bout it), just like any other sport. All it takes is one tiny mistake.. leaving a limb out there for your opponent to snag up, leaving your hands down, swinging a split second too late or too early leaving you open to take one on the chin...

 

You can't say Wanderlei Silva is a scrub or wasn't an amazing athlete/fighter in his days at PRIDE, he's a fuckin beast. And I didn't like Wanderlei @ PRIDE (Rampage fan) but he grew on me due to his fighting style. He comes out there and fights. Every time. No fear, no running, and I don't care who he fights, if he's on the main card I would buy watch the PPV fight just to watch him go toe to toe with somebody. Him being 3-7 (or whatever his record is) has nothin to do with ability either, he left PRIDE after gettin his melon split open by Cro Cop and Dan Henderson knockin his block off. You can only take so much punishment throughout your career, and eventually you see it catch up to every legend.

 

 

Glad you brought that up. Yeah Anderson was 3-2 in Pride before he started really picking up BJJ. Funny you go on to mention how great Wandy Silva was. Wandy was 1-2 in the UFC before his Pride career. The guy who was beat by Belfort and Tito all of a sudden become unbeatable in the Pride bubble. Imagine that!!!!

 

 

He's clearly the most educated, unbiased, omnipotant, most knowledgable historian of MMA ever to walk the land.

 

Finally a believer!!!!

[Guest]

Funny the japanese are the ones who dont know anything about the sport. In fact they are not there to see MMA to begin with. Look at Pride when they started. The first 3 years they had no crowd.

Haha @ no crowd. 47,000 people at Pride 1 is no crowd. At the same time the UFC was holding events for 5000 people. Come on son! Now why doesn't anybody take you seriously?

[Guest]

Here is the amazing history of Pride Belts.

 

Wanderlei Silva

 

Won belt Nov 2001 vs Sakuraba and defended 5 times through Feb 2007 to Tamura, Kanehara, Rampage, Arona, Henderson.

 

So he really only defended the belt 3 times against real contenders in 5.3 years and went 2-1 in those fights.

 

 

 

Dan Henderson never defended either of his belts.

 

 

Takanori Gomi defended his belt 1 time.

 

Fedor had the belt almost 5 years and only defended against Nog, Cro Cop, and Hunt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There was only 5 HW title fights in Pride History from 2001-2007. UFC had 9 during this time.

 

There were only 6 LHW title fights in Pride History from 2001-2007. UFC had 12 during this time.

 

There was only 1 Middle Weight title fight in Pride history from 2005-2007. UFC had 5.

 

There was only 1 Light weight title fight in Pride history from 2005-2007. UFC had 2 but didnt have a LW division half of the time.

[Rambo]

Glad you brought that up. Yeah Anderson was 3-2 in Pride before he started really picking up BJJ. Funny you go on to mention how great Wandy Silva was. Wandy was 1-2 in the UFC before his Pride career. The guy who was beat by Belfort and Tito all of a sudden become unbeatable in the Pride bubble. Imagine that!!!!

 

Belfort and Tito were some of the best fighters out there at the time they beat Wandy. There's no logic behind that. Imagine that he became unbeatable? He wasn't, he lost a few fights at PRIDE. He fought Rampage twice and FINISHED him. Not once, but twice. Rampage destroyed Chuck. He fought Cro Cop TWICE, and argueably won the first fight. He beat Dan Henderson before. He KO'd Guy Mezger. He finished Sakuraba - possible the most legendary Japanese fighter of all time - on 3 different occassions. Fought Arona twice. Mark Hunt. The guy has fought some of the best fighters, or top ranked fighters out there - especially at the time. He beat Yuki Kondo who went to a decision with Dan Henderson. You're the definition of a UFC fan boy and your infatuation with the greatness of Tank Abbott backs that up. At least it comes off that way.

 

I don't understand why you think Wanderlei was gift wrapped a career over there. It makes zero sense. His first 4 fights (after his previous "final fight" in the UFC, I know he had a few in PRIDE before that):

 

Guy Mezger

Gilbert Yvel

Dan Henderson

Sakuraba

 

I don't think you can name a UFC fighter in that era that had 4 fights that were as tough as those 4 were? The dude was a warrior, his career proved it, he's fought twice on the same day against Yoshida & Rampage - that's not an easy day - and the way he fights in the UFC after all these years proves it, and to talk down about his career, even if there was a fixed fight or a couple sacrificial lambs thrown to him, just proves you fit the mold of "some fat dude behind the keyboard eating a plate of fries". You're not a fighter, you never will be. Talking down about Wanderlei Silva's career makes you sound like an immature individual with no intelligence capacity. If you've ever watched Wanderlei fight, especially in his prime, it's obvious he was a great fighter.

 

The one huge difference I think between PRIDE & UFC fighters other than the rule set they had to adjust to, was the drug testing. I think a lot of PRIDE fighters were juiced up & jacked up on something, but so were thousands of other fighters outside their organization, and 10 years later the drugs have only improved & became more enhanced, and we see plenty of UFC fighters juiced up too, to this day.

 

 

Since I'm done arguing/debating about this, since it goes in circles, and we'll never see eye to eye on the matter - there were great things about both organizations. There were shady things about both. There were matches that never made any sense in both, and there still are matches in the UFC don't make sense to this day... both organizations offered me great entertainment, and I appreciate em both for that. I however, overall, enjoyed PRIDE a lot more in their day. I prefered their commentary. I prefered their pre-fight hype. Interviews. Fighters. Fights. No booing. Rules + soccer kicks. That's not saying the UFC was a bad organization compared to PRIDE, I just personally prefered PRIDE over the UFC, and found it much more entertaining.