Fight Engine Discussion

[Rambo]

When your fighter gets KO'd I think there's an extra energy loss for that... not 100% sure, but think you take a hit for those type of losses.

[SavageMMa]

This physicals thing is not a great idea, actually its a terrible idea. As I have already said to Mike, over the past perhaps 3/4 years he has been making modifications on his game engine based on fighters having these elite physicals, during the PM's he never suggested that he hasn't. Heavyweight fighting is prolly at its best it has been for a while, gassing isn't the deathblow it once was. Now you take the fighters cardio and drop it 4 levels, what do you think is going to happen? Race to the gas all over again. No sliders verity, just simple aggro damage body kicks and body punches, it gives you a decent chance of winning, nothing is certain in this game but with those sliders back then, you won.

 

Now me personally, I add on physicals now from a younger age with a fighter, so I have now spent the past 6/9 months training fighters with about 2/3 months of that dedicated pretty much to physicals. I'll have lost most of this training time and will now have to spend more time training the physicals to certain points so it isn't just all the same across. I just spent 6/9 months training these guys and they are now just starting to fight and I have to pull them out again for another month? Lose more actual fighting time with them because why? Verity? Nah.

 

This thing saying it will cause more verity in creating fighters, it will create less verity in setting sliders, and eventually people will be wise to what combo of skills is overpowered and use that until its nerfed. So in actual fact you are taking away verity because for me most of the fun in this game is scouting and setting sliders, its how you win fights. By now most people create projects, they keep the ones with solid chin, granite chin or KO power, they then train them up to be a striker or a grappler with a special ability. Like a striker with knees in the clinch and submissions, or a grappler with submissions etc, there is actually a decent verity of fighters to create already. Right now, this game doesn't need any of that.

 

Lets talk about what the game does need, right now most returning vets or vets that have recently lost a majority of their roster don't like the fact that the game takes a long time to build a fighter. There is a quick fix to that, and its rather realistic; learning speed stays consistent through out a fighters career. Learning speed capping was good for when they weren't a skills cap in place, now there is one and there is a way for fighters to degrade at a certain age, do we really need it to be capped? You could give some more points at creation in order for fighters to get fighting quicker and perhaps it doesn't take a real life year for fighters to become decent. It will solve the problem without ruining fighters who have already been created, it just means that when the next round of fighters you need to create comes up that they will be able to take to the cage sooner.

 

This next one though should be at the very top of the things in this game to fix; the orgs. In October of 2012, an org managed a 1003 event and broke the org game. We are now in June 2016 and 1003 events are common and fairly simple to do at the top level of the game to the point that org owners no longer have anything to aim for. It also fucked the game economy in a way that will prolly never be fixed due to the length of time this was allowed to continue until new businesses etc open up. I have begged for years for Mike to fix it, but he never has. Surely now in 2016, it is the time to fix the org game and finally make it interesting again and give org owners goals to shoot for. People ask why isn't events hyped anymore, part of that is because back in the day people wondered what the event rating would be, would a record be broken etc, its now all the same. There is other things which need looked at such as how powerful escapes are etc, but for now I really just want the orgs fixed, it was prolly the most fun I have had in the game owning an org but the fun was sucked out of it when there was no challenges left to do.

I know this is an old post but spending 2/3 months on physicals is straight up mental... Physicals are the LEAST important thing when you make a new prospect... Maybe a month straight I can agree with... especially early on since if you train any secondary skill for a week early on, you're going to pop SOMETHING in physcals regardless... I'd rather have a fighter with 1 in punching spend 3 weeks on punching technique, watch my boxing pop 3-5 times and watch my agility pop 2-4 times within in that time.

[Rambo]

I know this is an old post but spending 2/3 months on physicals is straight up mental... Physicals are the LEAST important thing when you make a new prospect... Maybe a month straight I can agree with... especially early on since if you train any secondary skill for a week early on, you're going to pop SOMETHING in physcals regardless... I'd rather have a fighter with 1 in punching spend 3 weeks on punching technique, watch my boxing pop 3-5 times and watch my agility pop 2-4 times within in that time.

Never skip leg day bro.

[10thPlanetKT]

It is a multiplier that applies to each strike. If you set 60 damage/ 40 accuracy, each strike's damage will get a 0.6 multiplier and each strike's accuracy will get a 0.4 multiplier. Have in mind that each type of strike has natural damage and accuracy. Imo it goes that way:

 

Head punches and leg kicks - highest natural accuracy, lowest natural damage and energy sap

Body punches - moderate natural accuracy, moderate energy sap

Body kicks - less than moderate natural accuracy, highest energy sap

Head kicks - low natural accuracy, 2nd highest natural damage

Punch combos - lowest natural accuracy, highest natural damage

 

Also from my observations, damage done in fights reflects directly to opponent's energy levels. I have had fights where my fighter landed just 5-6 head punches with high damage slider before getting a KO and in the end of the fight opponent's energy was at 30-40%. So in the way the game engine processes values and formulas, head strikes are also sapping energy with a chance of Cut/Knockdown/He's Rocked/KO/TKO event happening. While body strikes are just sapping higher amount of energy without a chance of any of the above events happening. Leg kicks are also interesting, cause I think they are sapping a slight amount of energy but also they are lowering some(if not all) of your opponent's active physical skills.

 

This info hasn't been confirmed by Mike, it is just my observations during the years. Use it as you wish.

 

What about Knees and Elbows?

[barney]

How did I win this?

IMHO this should happen...

[10thPlanetKT]

You threw more strikes than him. I believe miss strikes count towards aggression in the scoring criteria and still score points when the fight goes to decision.

[barney]

You threw more strikes than him. I believe miss strikes count towards aggression in the scoring criteria and still score points when the fight goes to decision.

And I missed all of them lol... Meanwhile the guy at least landed some counters... Dunno this just seems wrong to me.

[jjsquirrel]

And I missed all of them lol... Meanwhile the guy at least landed some counters... Dunno this just seems wrong to me.

You landed gnp, must be what won it for you.

[TJMitchell]

More active fighter and landed more strikes and takedowns. If your fighter was mine I be pissed if I didn't win that fight

[barney]

You landed gnp, must be what won it for you.

Only round 1 tho. IMHO I won first round and lost 2 and 3. One judge even gave me 3 rounds

[10thPlanetKT]

The judges are just like UFC judges, they don't know what there looking at half the time

[Laperuza]

I don't know if this topic was ever mentioned but:

 

There is the strange thiing in the game. You can create fighter with any height and weight. So.. may be.. yes everyone can do it.

But when I created my guy in lightweight. He was 175 cm.

Someone can create 190-195 cm guy with 155 lbs weight. And he has standup advantage. And may be no wrestling & power disadvantage.. Because everyone can get Strength to 15++. How you gonna make yourself a Strongman athlete not gaining any weight???

 

But in real life if you are 2 meters tall and your weight is 60 kilos. You are half dead. You have no any power. Just long bones. And I don't know if game engine calculates this thing...

Okay. Bye.

[Rambo]

I don't know if this topic was ever mentioned but:

 

There is the strange thiing in the game. You can create fighter with any height and weight. So.. may be.. yes everyone can do it.

But when I created my guy in lightweight. He was 175 cm.

Someone can create 190-195 cm guy with 155 lbs weight. And he has standup advantage. And may be no wrestling & power disadvantage.. Because everyone can get Strength to 15++. How you gonna make yourself a Strongman athlete not gaining any weight???

 

But in real life if you are 2 meters tall and your weight is 60 kilos. You are half dead. You have no any power. Just long bones. And I don't know if game engine calculates this thing...

Okay. Bye.

 

Extreme builds like that severely hamper fighters but do have their advantages as well. Most often though they are exploitable. Pull guard and sub spam the tall lanky string beans or kick them to the body, it snaps em in half.

[10thPlanetKT]

The 190 centimeters at 155 weight division like Rambo said is easily exploitable by an opposing manager that knows what they are doing. Most fighters with that weight will get tired easily in the fight engine with a few kicks to the body and or GnP after a takedown and will have nothing left in the second. So in reality if someone creates a fighter like this they are indeed "half dead" because they create a scenario in the fight engine of extremely high reward vs extremely high risk. Reach Advantage vs energy retention. Smaller fighters gain more energy back for every round so if that extremely tall twig has pillow hands every round that goes by severely decreases there chances of winning overtime. Lastly being so light at that height make your chin value decrease as well. That is indeed the James Vick glass chin build lol.

 

[JLP]

I've been gone almost two years and no fight engine update?

That really killed my enthusiasm to return, I should have checked before i made new fighters. Im also a little mad that my retired fighters got put through FA too. At least my jet and its cash are still here.

 

I'll give it a few weeks to see if i can get back into it. It was nice to have some welcome back messages from old heads.

 

PLEASE DONT PM ME BJORN.

[mmagladiators]

It be nice if we could speed up the training and add more primaries/secondaries. Doubt it happens though it would probably cost too much time and money.

[Shortstacker]

Having more skills/primaries to train equals a longer stretch before fighting, which can be a drag.

 

I definitely agree with speeding up training speed though, the fighting is what (I'm assuming) has most people playing this fine game!

[Xyel]

Yeah, but fighting happens at many levels, and plenty managers, like me, enjoy the early and the mid-game. Pushing up learning speed would only shorten their interval, making the endgame approach faster for no obvious benefit.

[Rambo]

Yeah, but fighting happens at many levels, and plenty managers, like me, enjoy the early and the mid-game. Pushing up learning speed would only shorten their interval, making the endgame approach faster for no obvious benefit.

ID orgs and org owners would benefit massively. How many fighters deactive or shut down over training time? it's borderline training tycoon. plenty of managers throw in the towel when their stable fails cuz it took over an IRL year to build. The reward isn't worth the patience tbh.

 

Benefit = more customers, player retention, competition, etc.

 

strongly disagree on more skills but all about increasing learning speed, and possibly fighter aging to create a faster fighter rollover rate.

 

 

 

I'm established. I'm on auto pilot half the time. private gym. unlimited finances. also have social circle here.

 

new users are like swimming tadpoles, all racing to the finish line, and if you're lucky 1 will make it, sometimes twins. Abortions frequent.

[jjsquirrel]

I don't think the solution is increased learning speed. You would still be clicking through exactly as many drop down boxes every week to set training for all your guys. Fighters would spend more of their career fighting at openid and id orgs would live shorter lives, making it an even tougher prospect to start one up.

 

Instead what if the micromanaging sucked less? Like being able to set train kicks to 12 then switch to clinch or whatever other system that is not setting each session individually. Get us some actual autopilot features.

[Xyel]

ID orgs and org owners would benefit massively. How many fighters deactive or shut down over training time? it's borderline training tycoon. plenty of managers throw in the towel when their stable fails cuz it took over an IRL year to build. The reward isn't worth the patience tbh.

 

Benefit = more customers, player retention, competition, etc.

 

strongly disagree on more skills but all about increasing learning speed, and possibly fighter aging to create a faster fighter rollover rate.

 

I don't see how boosting learning speed would help that at all. Most fighters get purged due to poor hiddens, which comes clear through fighting.

 

If people are quitting due to cooking fighters for a year and then finding out the fighters are unusable, then perhaps the veterans should stop advocating doing that, or at least start mentioning the risk - one test fight is not enough to see if the fighter has lategame potential or not.

 

For new managers, the biggest issue imo is the brutal learning curve this game has.

Also, what doesn't help are tickers at sub 22 years of the fighter's age - they are invisible unless the skills are at X--, and skills tick down hell fast even at a 20 yo, so if one misses a month of a fight, one has to constantly watch out for them, which is a lot of unnecessary micromanagement.

 

Also, what would imo help would be to make learning speed faster at useless to proficient, compensating it with equivalent nerf at the high end, so people can easier make fight able builds and thus fight sooner

[Shortstacker]

I don't see how boosting learning speed would help that at all. Most fighters get purged due to poor hiddens, which comes clear through fighting.

 

If people are quitting due to cooking fighters for a year and then finding out the fighters are unusable, then perhaps the veterans should stop advocating doing that, or at least start mentioning the risk - one test fight is not enough to see if the fighter has lategame potential or not.

 

For new managers, the biggest issue imo is the brutal learning curve this game has.

Also, what doesn't help are tickers at sub 22 years of the fighter's age - they are invisible unless the skills are at X--, and skills tick down hell fast even at a 20 yo, so if one misses a month of a fight, one has to constantly watch out for them, which is a lot of unnecessary micromanagement.

 

Also, what would imo help would be to make learning speed faster at useless to proficient, compensating it with equivalent nerf at the high end, so people can easier make fight able builds and thus fight sooner

I dig it!

[tomodinho]

Also, what would imo help would be to make learning speed faster at useless to proficient, compensating it with equivalent nerf at the high end, so people can easier make fight able builds and thus fight sooner

Wouldn´t this lead to the same thing as we have now though? Still the fastest way to get every skill to 15 would be not to fight with the fighter for a couple of months and that fighter will have advantage over the fighter that is fighting. Don´t think this would change much.

[tomodinho]

Fighting at young age isn´t worth it, the only way to make it worth it is to give people a reason to fight, as in skills improve after a fight to make it unnecessary to not fight to be able to train fully. The problem with this would be that you probably wouldn´t be able to control what your fighter improves in which could ruin a build.

[jjsquirrel]

What about a small learning speed increase from fighting? At least up to a certain level.

 

This gives us more early fighting and makes the slow learners not be totally hopeless.