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Check this anti gun bullshit out.


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Yeah armed revolutions sure are a great idea.

 

Funny when you look at the Arab spring..

 

Armed revolution in Syria: Can't do shit in 21 months even with huge international supplies and weapons support.

Armed revolution in Libya: 8 Months for victory, which would've been completely reversed if not for European intervention.

Unarmed revolution in Tunisia (fairly literal, given the gun control in place in Tunisia): President gone in 1 month, Party gone in 3, Functioning Democracy in 10.

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lol stupid gun nuts make me laugh, your arguments are so fucking dumb -- your graphs don't even account for population growth, your lack of understanding of basic statistics is fucking laughable.

 

As for your "guns protect us from the government" argument: you've got more people imprisoned than the soviet union, warrantless wiretapping and indefinite imprisonment. You don't get to lecture the rest of the world about freedom.

 

P.s. here's a chart for you stupid cbombs, more military/police grade weapons per person = more gun deaths.

 

 

 

whats up with all the name calling no one attacking you like that -- so violent with your words -- what has people in prison got to do with any of this or gun debate period -- they are in prison cause of doing something illegal -- and as for lecture the rest of the world about freedom i have no clue who your talking to on that -- i havent lectured any but my freedom maybe and thats the freedom to exercise my 2nd amendment rights -- its not my fault your country wasnt founded on those rights or with the same rights ours was

 

also on your chart look at mexico at the top -- you know they have pretty darn strict laws against guns there -- sure dont help them does it

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whats up with all the name calling no one attacking you like that -- so violent with your words -- what has people in prison got to do with any of this or gun debate period -- they are in prison cause of doing something illegal -- and as for lecture the rest of the world about freedom i have no clue who your talking to on that -- i havent lectured any but my freedom maybe and thats the freedom to exercise my 2nd amendment rights -- its not my fault your country wasnt founded on those rights or with the same rights ours was

 

I'm quite happy we're not founded with the right for people to shoot at each other (which is the literal argument behind the second amendment I keep hearing) over disagreements in how things should be run. They're in prison because your nation runs prison like a for profit industry -- it's a joke how many people are imprisoned in America for non-event offences.

 

I'm sick of you yanks and your poorly thought out intellectually dishonest arguments on this issue trying to tell us that we've got it wrong when pretty much all evidence indicates the reverse is true.

 

 

also on your chart look at mexico at the top -- you know they have pretty darn strict laws against guns there -- sure dont help them does it

 

So it turns out that a hole run by crime syndicates has a lot of crime -- and amazingly next door to the country that has an incredible volume of readily available guns they take them and use them for crime, who'd have thought it.

 

Mexican cartels have ready access to guns because they buy or steal them effortlessly in the US and smuggle them back into Mexico on the trip home from selling drugs.

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yes and america is how much larger more populated than uk? -- or course the rate gonna be higher when the population is so much higher -- also mexico has just as strong gun laws as uk and look at their murder rate its towers over americas

 

It is 4.8 murders per 100,000 citizens. UK is 1.2 per 100,000 citizens. Population has been taken into account. I already said that you can't count developing countries. That includes Mexico. You can only compare America to Western Europe, Australia, Japan, and South Korea. All other comparisons are comparing apples and oranges.

 

It is true that if America outlaws guns, there will still be a violent crime problem for several decades. There are so many weapons out there and a large percentage of them will not be turned in if guns are banned. However, the improvements would be seen several decades in the future.

 

The argument is always made that criminals always have and always will have guns. This is only half true. SOME criminals will always have guns, but most will not. Take a look at Japan and South Korea. Both have an organized crime problem. However, barely anyone gets shot. Guns are so hard to come by that only the most well-connected mobsters have them. Most gang violence in these countries ends up being minor stabbings and people getting beat up. Deaths are rare.

 

Is this a completely fair comparison? Of course not. These countries have had gun bans in place since before their people could afford to buy guns. There are not millions of guns laying around their country to begin with. However, as I said, a gun ban would result in mild improvements in the short term, but the real payoff would happen slowly over decades as more and more guns are taken out of circulation.

 

At the end of the day, I know I am not going to convince anyone. Americans are brought up in a gun-loving culture that has convinced them that guns are good. The rest of the developed world is absolutely flabbergasted that Americans can't link their high murder rate to their high rate of untrained gun ownership. The only people who kill themselves at higher rates than Americans are 3rd world countries. If America's safety is on the same level as Laos (4.6), Philippines (5.4), Thailand (4.8) and Palestine (4.1), then they really need to stop and ask why they can't be as safe as countries with a simlar GDP per capita as them. Why can't they be as safe as Hong Kong (0.2), Japan (0.4), Denmark (0.9), Germany (0.8), Australia (1.0) and France (1.1)?

 

In the end, it is a culture thing. It is a big mind shift to abandon the propaganda that has been fed to you since the day you were born. It is like the Chinese and their ridiculous medicine (I live in China right now). The people have the same obvious facts as the rest of the world that taking cold medication is more effective than boiling a lizard skin in water and then drinking the water, but their culture has them so brainwashed that they cannot accept what appears to be an obvious fact to everyone else in the world.

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How is that gun ban working for ya?

 

It's working great thanks. Picked my kid up from school today and not had to worry about visiting the morgue to identify her.

 

You have to ask yourself though - yeah, we might have a few carjacking or whatever, but, they are just that. In the States how many attempted carjackings have turned into murder?

 

If a guy was to carjack me with a gun at least he knows I'm not going to pull a gun on him so he takes just the car and not mine or my families lives because he's on edge in case I bring out a gun or something.

 

The way I see it that works for us. Not sure if it'd work for the US because I'm not that interested - only the people of the US can decide that.

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It's working great thanks. Picked my kid up from school today and not had to worry about visiting the morgue to identify her.

 

You have to ask yourself though - yeah, we might have a few carjacking or whatever, but, they are just that. In the States how many attempted carjackings have turned into murder?

 

If a guy was to carjack me with a gun at least he knows I'm not going to pull a gun on him so he takes just the car and not mine or my families lives because he's on edge in case I bring out a gun or something.

 

The way I see it that works for us. Not sure if it'd work for the US because I'm not that interested - only the people of the US can decide that.

 

19 year old and you have kid?

 

Other than that in Latvia you can get gun but you have go through some shit to get it its not so easy so there are almost zero guns. We are only 2mil but at the same time we have like I dont even know 5 gun murders per year and are all so called Procurement murders. But there is a big but in Latvia also crimials have no guns its very rarly that something like this happens but of course some one need guns to protect theri self like house owners people who work in like gass stastions school guards and so I heard in UK even regular cops dont have guns and thats kinda crazy.

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Comparing violent crime to gun crime, as if they're basically the same thing and swapping one for the other isn't any use, is completely nonsensical. I have been the victim of violent crime twice (i.e. jumped by a group of guys and had my head kicked in). All that's wrong with me is that I have two scars on my head and my jaw dislocates when I eat. If I'd been the victim of gun crime twice, I probably wouldn't be here. The two things are not even the same ball park.

 

I've shot a gun plenty of times. It's really not hard to get to do it over here. I don't need to own one to do it and I think it's really, really, really stupid to just allow anyone to own one. Reason being, a lot of people are really stupid. Just look at that complete cock rocket on Piers Morgan the other day. (And I don't mean Piers Morgan).

 

People who say they "have the right to do [anything that doesn't really matter]", as if that's a weighty argument, kind of annoy me. The most annoying are people who complain about CCTV and I don't think the right to bear arms is far behind. I would have CCTV watch me all day every day if it meant one kid that I never knew and never will know was alive because of it or if one rapist got caught fleeing the scene.

 

Sure, owning a gun is exciting and fun or whatever. If everyone gave up their guns though, some people would not die. That is just a 100% undeniable fact. I don't get where the problem is there. If you're not a selfish person, someone else's life is more important than your enjoyment of one thing. I enjoy playing FIFA. Not enough that I'd rather someone else died so I could play it though.

 

There are plenty of other things to enjoy doing OR just go shoot a gun at a gun range and carry on basically doing exactly the same thing, whilst those other random people get to live.

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The most annoying are people who complain about CCTV and I don't think the right to bear arms is far behind. I would have CCTV watch me all day every day if it meant one kid that I never knew and never will know was alive because of it or if one rapist got caught fleeing

 

This makes me laugh. When people are losing he argument they say something like 'hey bud, the UK is the most watched nation in the world so there'

 

And? Who cares - the CCTV is in public places, where others can see you if they pass by.

 

Then you get people from the same country saying how they don't trust their government and that they're trying to control them.

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Seeing as BrainSmasher mentioned his great, American freedom, I'm going to do something in his honor that I bet he's never done: Go outside without fearing for my life.

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Manny you are a moron. You really think anyone in the US is scared for their life? My states has relatively low gun crime. I will do something you can't do. I will sit in my home and not fear for my life by an intruder. Just being allowed to have a gun scares anyone from trying. I've never been jumped, robbed, or car jacked. My house has never been broken into and neither has my car. No one has ever pulled a gun on me and never been shot at. Yet you think I live in a war zone lol.

 

Nexus, yes the rates are per 100k. But that fact remains as population rises crime goes up at an increased rate. If the UK had the US population it would not stay at the same rate. That's why crime is always worse in big cities.

 

Mike Tycoon, there is a good chance if guns were allowed those attacks you suffered would have never happened. It's also a false assumption to assume just because they did whAt they did that they would also want to kill you. You know as well as I if they wanted guns or were killers they would easily get guns. Also i think it is very childish to claim the guy o. piers is some killer just because be raised his voice to someone being co descending to him. Being a bad debater or even having a temper does t make people killers. That guy has owned guns his entire life and has t killed anyone with them. It is beyond stupid to act like he is dangerous just because you do t like his point of view. But that is par for the course for you people who have had you mind made up for you long ago. Look at how Erik has responded to these otherwise friendly discussions. I could easily say he is the type of person we want out guns to defend against. He comes off as mentally unstable. But spotting a killer is t as easy as you guys act like. So enough of this " that guy is allowed to own a gun" stuff.

 

The big problem in the US is drugs. It is the root of most problems with guns. The drug problem right now is to bad to unarm ourselves. Also the liberals want to keep letting criminals out of prison and ha e turned prison into a summer camp. It is t a detourant and they are quickly back on the street. Most killers have a huge rapsheet and should have been locked up long before killing someone.

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You ProGUN people argue the wrong points. You all argue self defense... It's the most bullshit argument because its fucking fake. Outlawing guns would prevent more deaths, then it would save lives due to self defense. Theres no way around it. I've never walked with any sort of weapon and Ive never been jumped robbed carjacked gun point etc and I live 10 minutes away from one of the most dangerous US cities.

 

PERSONALLY, I'm on your side, Im progun too... But for a much more reasonable argument. IDK off the top of my head but i think weapon related homicide accounted for 15,000 deaths in the US this year.. Or a number roughly around that. Considering like 2.5 Million people die per year in the US... What is 15,000?

 

Also considering a lot of those deal with Drug Wars, Gang wars and that inner city type of life style.. The number is actually much lower.

 

So what you really should be arguing, Is the time and cost of taking guns off the streets worth saving a few thousand lives? No it's not, the millions and millions that will come from Tax Payers is not worth it. If your going to raise funds to save lives, forget about guns.. Put it towards Heart Disease and Cancer which are the #1 and #2 Killers BY A FUCKLOAD in the US.

 

I'm Sorry, i feel bad for Sandy Hook, its a great Tragedy.. I feel bad for Virginia Tech, its a great tragedy.. I feel bad for Columbine its a great Tragedy... But thats 80 people in 15 years. Thats a pebble of sand on a giant beach. It aint shit.. Considering in the last few weeks we've had a Flu outbreak that has killed more then all these school shootings and mall shootings and theatre shootings combined guns arn't a problem.

 

So you gunlovers need to start making some sense, because your arguments are not helping your case there just going to hurt your case. Selfdefense is the worst argument you can possibly think of.

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Manny you are a moron. You really think anyone in the US is scared for their life? My states has relatively low gun crime. I will do something you can't do. I will sit in my home and not fear for my life by an intruder. Just being allowed to have a gun scares anyone from trying. I've never been jumped, robbed, or car jacked. My house has never been broken into and neither has my car. No one has ever pulled a gun on me and never been shot at. Yet you think I live in a war zone lol.

 

I never sit around in my home fearing for my own life because I'm not a paranoid moron like you are. I've never been in any particular danger and I've never even had my wallet stolen despite not walking around with heavy artillery.

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I never sit around in my home fearing for my own life because I'm not a paranoid moron like you are.

 

Well doh - that's because your government has decided for you that you shouldn't be in fear. It happens to everyone who is not pro gun. It's not free thought at all - you are conditioned by your government. They have already made your mind up for you. Only a pro gun person has free thought.

 

Sarcasm aside it think it's a sign of a week argument to make out someone who is not pro gun has in some way had their mind made up for them already.

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Nexus, yes the rates are per 100k. But that fact remains as population rises crime goes up at an increased rate. If the UK had the US population it would not stay at the same rate. That's why crime is always worse in big cities.

 

 

This appears to me to be a bad argument. I'm pretty sure that, taken as a whole, the UK is much more urbanised than the US. I'm giving rough figures but I believe the UK has about 20% the population of USA, while being about 3% in land area (I know that includes Alaska, deserts and mountains, but still). In other words, UK is MORE crowded and MORE people live in cities.

 

EDIT: Had to look to see if I was right after posting. According to the UN, in 2002, the UK was 20th most urbanised nation in the world, and USA 44th. Under population density, the UK is rated #48 and the USA #168.

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Nexus, yes the rates are per 100k. But that fact remains as population rises crime goes up at an increased rate. If the UK had the US population it would not stay at the same rate. That's why crime is always worse in big cities.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_by_country

 

Nope, logic fail. Heavily urbanised developed countries have some of the lowest crime rates in the world. Try pulling your head out of your ass.

 

The big problem in the US is drugs. It is the root of most problems with guns. The drug problem right now is to bad to unarm ourselves. Also the liberals want to keep letting criminals out of prison and ha e turned prison into a summer camp. It is t a detourant and they are quickly back on the street. Most killers have a huge rapsheet and should have been locked up long before killing someone.

 

The problem with drugs is that you're fighting an impossible war: people want drugs, people will buy drugs, farmers in third world countries will grow drugs because otherwise it's make 2$ a day farming corn. The drug war is a poorly thought out stupidly targeted approach that is essentially cutting heads off a hydra. It's also largely unnecessary, but that's a whole second debate.

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Mike Tycoon, there is a good chance if guns were allowed those attacks you suffered would have never happened. It's also a false assumption to assume just because they did whAt they did that they would also want to kill you. You know as well as I if they wanted guns or were killers they would easily get guns. Also i think it is very childish to claim the guy o. piers is some killer just because be raised his voice to someone being co descending to him. Being a bad debater or even having a temper does t make people killers. That guy has owned guns his entire life and has t killed anyone with them. It is beyond stupid to act like he is dangerous just because you do t like his point of view. But that is par for the course for you people who have had you mind made up for you long ago. Look at how Erik has responded to these otherwise friendly discussions. I could easily say he is the type of person we want out guns to defend against. He comes off as mentally unstable. But spotting a killer is t as easy as you guys act like. So enough of this " that guy is allowed to own a gun" stuff.

That first sentence is complete nonsense. Why on earth would it make any difference whether some drunk morons decide to punch me in the face?

 

I'm not remotely suggesting that they would decide to kill me if they had guns. They wouldn't have in this instance, it was just what I mentioned before - some drunk morons who just wanted to beat someone up. I wasn't saying that anyone who commits violent crime would kill someone if they had a gun, I was just saying they are not even remotely the same thing. PBR effectively said "take away the guns and you just have more other violent crime". GOOD! Other violent crime isn't as bad!

 

As for the guy on Piers Morgan. he personally is worrying but he also represent's perfectly a fundamental problem. I wouldn't want him to have a gun because he's clearly mentally unstable, not because I disagree with him. He appears to have paranoia and delusions of grandeur, with psychopathic tendencies. I got forwarded that vid by a mate who actually owns a gun (in this country), who said he wouldn't get a gun licence over here in a million years.

 

I'm not saying he's gunna kill anyone. I'm saying he's not right in the head and firearms aren't something you should take a risk with or hand out willy nilly. I think you agree with that anyway but then you're defending this guy's right to bear arms, which doesn't make any sense to me. Having said that, I would not be remotely surprised if that guy went on a rampage and the fact he's some sort of spokesperson should be massively depressing to anyone who's pro-gun.

 

I also totally agree with toejam when he says "So you gunlovers need to start making some sense, because your arguments are not helping your case there just going to hurt your case. Selfdefense is the worst argument you can possibly think of." I don't agree with the rest of his post though. I don't think 15,000 people dieing isn't worth a shit. I think that's a massive amount of people when you consider it's a one off cost for an indefinite change in culture. Multiply it over a decade and you've saved a small city worth of people.

 

For me it's got to an utterly baffling state of affairs when some people genuinely think that it's a good idea to have armed security in schools. Ask anyone over here what they think of that and they'll probably find it hard to formulate a sentence about just how moronic that situation is.

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